What's best in highly sensitive/efficient speakers.

[gian60]

Hi Ked,if you have few space you can do a system like this,can use woofer Altec 416 or 515,horn ALE and ALE D serie,3 or 4 way
Like this

 

[morricab]

Reading the last two pages I think (IMO for those who need the obvious repeated!) that everyone has a point here.

1- I agree with Brad that outside a small group there's a total lack of understanding and knowledge of horns in US & UK and a lot of it has to do with the incredible influence of horrible audio rags like Absolute Sh!t & Junkpile during the 80's and 90's, even today 99% what you read there is worthless dribble wether by design or by ignorance. Not to forget that some of those mavens were recommending equipment based on THD and Slew rates prior to jining H & P's ratazines. If you read Stereo Sound and other Japanese magazines of the same era you'll understand why they caught on to the beauty of great horn and triode sound while we let go of everything following the con artists here.

2- Keith is also correct criticizing the modern horns, I can't live with most of what I've heard either but I feel that way about box speakers and panels too. The outstanding ones in each group are very few, too few IMO but that's always been the case. But Keith is wrong thinking that Japanese highend horn market is Kendrick refurbished JBLs, those are mostly for nubes. The true highenders have way more sophisticated and exotic systems than mid level JBL studio monitors. They're also much older than Kendrick buyers with music collections to match, unfortunately they're a dying breed and even Japan is going the way of the West to dead sounding inefficient boxes needing equally boring and dead sounding high wattage amplification just to get them to fart.

3- Ked has a very valid point too, you don't know what you're missing until you've heard a good horn system properly setup and matched.

david

Suffice to say there are precious few good speakers...

Don’t you have a JBL system with LAMMs? K2 9500 or some such speaker.

Not all the stuff Kenrick does is middle class JBL. He had some gorgeous Hartsfields that I bet don’t sound bad at all

 

[gian60]

or this

Audio Tekne design,but can copy

 

[gian60]

I had the below speaker in 1994 with Altec 416,Ale D 4550 and 1710 tweeter

 

[bonzo75]

It's Columbus day guys, time for Americans to go out and get some exposure. Find something that's already obvious to others and call it discovery

 

[morricab]

Surely. Do you say the same for "successful high-end audio manufacturers"? Although I see a few exceptions I see a lot of "quality sonics" in most of the successful ones.

I see a lot of quality marketing at least...

 

[morricab]

ahh yes, the Caesar response: it's all a grand conspiracy by reviewers and magazines to not support these speakers. sorry if I fail to agree. a lot of people just don't like horns and find them honky or prefer newer box speakers to them. our fearless leader @Steve Williams said that to me in 5 minutes at the recent show after hearing the Tune Audios. we've also figured out ways to build speakers with modern techniques that aren't as big as refridgerators.

most of Kenrick's refurbed JBL buyers don't use SETs. McIntosh i believe is the usual pairing. ahh, the horror that horns/SETs don't always win!

No it’s something simpler called bias of a few reviewers/mags that set a trend in motion... and a desire away from large speakers in the mainstream (with the Acoustic Suspension) and the lies about sound quality of early SS that had to go along to make low efficiency speakers viable...all factors away from ultimate sound quality.

 

[ddk]

Suffice to say there are precious few good speakers...

Don’t you have a JBL system with LAMMs? K2 9500 or some such speaker.

Not all the stuff Kenrick does is middle class JBL. He had some gorgeous Hartsfields that I bet don’t sound bad at all

I didn't mean to knock Kenrick's speakers it's just that the vintage high end market are purists and they wont touch anything refurbished. Also JBLs are abundant so they don't have exclusivity despite sounding very good.

I have the M9500 and I really like it a lot but I also have many other horn speakers some of which I like more and some less than the JBLs. The beauty of the JBLs is that you can drive with solid state or tubes equally well but everything else I have is very picky with the electronics and sound absolutely disgusting even with the best solid state amplifiers.

david

 

[bonzo75]

What goes in there, 2226 and 2441?

 

[KeithR]

Those who don't like horns should state what proper horn exposure they have. Going to a show and listening to any horn, or amp, or dac, or TT, is not really exposure.

do you believe Stereophile and TAS writers don't have access or exposure to horns?

 

[KeithR]

No it’s something simpler called bias of a few reviewers/mags that set a trend in motion... and a desire away from large speakers in the mainstream (with the Acoustic Suspension) and the lies about sound quality of early SS that had to go along to make low efficiency speakers viable...all factors away from ultimate sound quality.

but we aren't in early SS land and there are damn good SS amps out there. and there have been plenty of horns reviewed in the rags - Klipsch, Volti, Avantgarde, JBL, Shindo, etc. I've read them all in my horn research, multiple times.

also, as a horn distributor - isn't it your job to fix this alleged "bias" in the rags? why don't rags want to review your speakers?

this really comes down to "my girlfriend had a strad in my house and the only way i think that sounds is with horns/sets from near distance" sorry if that's not how i and others evaluate audio, many of us musicians ourselves. it's a preference which you treat as doctrine with others.

 

[KeithR]

2- Keith is also correct criticizing the modern horns, I can't live with most of what I've heard either but I feel that way about box speakers and panels too. The outstanding ones in each group are very few, too few IMO but that's always been the case. But Keith is wrong thinking that Japanese highend horn market is Kendrick refurbished JBLs, those are mostly for nubes. The true highenders have way more sophisticated and exotic systems than mid level JBL studio monitors. They're also much older than Kendrick buyers with music collections to match, unfortunately they're a dying breed and even Japan is going the way of the West to dead sounding inefficient boxes needing equally boring and dead sounding high wattage amplification just to get them to fart.

david

Fair point - i was just using Kendrick as a well-known example. I'm sure there are crazier horn guys in Japan

While not as high end/exotic as you are probably talking about, Shindo is an easy way to hear the Japanese horn/triode sound in the US - they have dealers on both coasts with the Shindo Altec Valencias.

 

[bonzo75]

do you believe Stereophile and TAS writers don't have access or exposure to horns?

They may do, they may not do, their job is to review current in production thing and gear updates. 6 moons does do a lot of efficient speakers. Not all reviewers can do everything, everyone specializes. I have not yet read different Altec, JBL, TAD, or any field coil drivers and horn configurations mentioned in JBL or TAS. Why would they review something that has already been reviewed? I am sure horn reviews must have been published by someone at some point. Unless there is something groundbreaking new happening on the horn front, why will they review? Horns have been here longer than reviewers have.

 

[bonzo75]

Fair point - i was just using Kendrick as a well-known example. I'm sure there are crazier horn guys in Japan

While not as high end/exotic as you are probably talking about, Shindo is an easy way to hear the Japanese horn/triode sound in the US - they have dealers on both coasts with the Shindo Altec Valencias.

I find Shindo quite slow and colored as a system.

 

[ddk]

Fair point - i was just using Kendrick as a well-known example. I'm sure there are crazier horn guys in Japan

While not as high end/exotic as you are probably talking about, Shindo is an easy way to hear the Japanese horn/triode sound in the US - they have dealers on both coasts with the Shindo Altec Valencias.

Funny thing Keith, on & off I've been involved with Japanese high end scene for over two decades and never once came across Shindo in any high end context. Even as late as 2000 they were still known as a small DIY hobbyist brand selling kits based on old McIntosh designs, they might have come a long way but you still don't see any Shindo gear anywhere or at least not in my circles over there. The trend is mostly custom electronics for them and high end triodes from more established high end manufacturers.

david

 

[KeithR]

They may do, they may not do, their job is to review current in production thing and gear updates. 6 moons does do a lot of efficient speakers. Not all reviewers can do everything, everyone specializes. I have not yet read different Altec, JBL, TAD, or any field coil drivers and horn configurations mentioned in JBL or TAS. Why would they review something that has already been reviewed? I am sure horn reviews must have been published by someone at some point. Unless there is something groundbreaking new happening on the horn front, why will they review? Horns have been here longer than reviewers have.

Art Dudley owns and reviews with Altecs.

are you saying DIY stuff should be reviewed by the rags? I don't think any magazine would ever really do that, so perhaps horns really plays to a different crowd ala the Jeff Day followers.

 

[morricab]

but we aren't in early SS land and there are damn good SS amps out there. and there have been plenty of horns reviewed in the rags - Klipsch, Volti, Avantgarde, JBL, Shindo, etc. I've read them all in my horn research, multiple times.

also, as a horn distributor - isn't it your job to fix this alleged "bias" in the rags? why don't rags want to review your speakers?

this really comes down to "my girlfriend had a strad in my house and the only way i think that sounds is with horns/sets from near distance" sorry if that's not how i and others evaluate audio, many of us musicians ourselves. it's a preference which you treat as doctrine with others.

It’s your opinion there are damn good SS amps out there, not mine...I don’t think there is one that is truly good...some hybrids can be ok if one is not being too picky...

Aries Cerat Symphonias are very low volume and were reviewed to high acclaim in Mono and Stereo. Dynamikks speakers are well regarded in the German speaking part of Europe but again low volume selling mostly...in Asia! Go figure...

So now live, unamplified music as a reference is a doctrine? It just sounds like commonsense to me.

You do realize that being a musician and being an observer are not the same? One can be good at both but more often one is good at making music and the other is better at listening to it. I am the latter and my ex was one of the rare ones who was both. She loved my Apogees and Acoustats...have to admit they sounded damn good...and yes I eventually drove my Acoustats with SETs...because it sounded more like what I heard live with relevant recordings.

 

[morricab]

They may do, they may not do, their job is to review current in production thing and gear updates. 6 moons does do a lot of efficient speakers. Not all reviewers can do everything, everyone specializes. I have not yet read different Altec, JBL, TAD, or any field coil drivers and horn configurations mentioned in JBL or TAS. Why would they review something that has already been reviewed? I am sure horn reviews must have been published by someone at some point. Unless there is something groundbreaking new happening on the horn front, why will they review? Horns have been here longer than reviewers have.

Art Dudley seems to be a mainstream exception...he likes old Altec stuff.

 

[bonzo75]

Art Dudley owns and reviews with Altecs.

are you saying DIY stuff should be reviewed by the rags? I don't think any magazine would ever really do that, so perhaps horns really plays to a different crowd ala the Jeff Day followers.

I am not saying magazines should do that now. They did what they did, many people are led by them. Art's Valencia are basic Altec. There are a lot of models and configurations in Altec. Or in jbl, or in TAD

 

[tima]

They may do, they may not do, their job is to review current in production thing and gear updates. 6 moons does do a lot of efficient speakers. Not all reviewers can do everything, everyone specializes. I have not yet read different Altec, JBL, TAD, or any field coil drivers and horn configurations mentioned in JBL or TAS. Why would they review something that has already been reviewed? I am sure horn reviews must have been published by someone at some point. Unless there is something groundbreaking new happening on the horn front, why will they review? Horns have been here longer than reviewers have.

For many many years Atkinson included the SME V in one of his Best Products issues. The Lamm M1.2 Ref was over 12 years old when both I and Matej Isak each reviewed it and it had 20 different reviews before that. Multiple reviews of a product are very common. Enduring products get reviewed repeatedly. The print mags have rules about manufacturers they will cover, e-zines not so much.

Stereophile had a new version of a Klipsch horn speaker on their cover a couple months ago. Do you like any of their models? How about Volti? Or Classic Audio Reproductions?

It's Columbus day guys, time for Americans to go out and get some exposure. Find something that's already obvious to others and call it discovery

Who are the top 3 horn speaker US manufacturers? What's the best horn speaker currently made in the US that goes for less than $75k and will fit in my 20'x16'x8' room?