I''m still learning about the HK 990. I never said anything about "audiophile parts" in either amp. I did say the the Atma-Sphere offered more premium parts as an option. Maybe that's where you went astray. Interestingly the Harmon Kardon website offers much more information than it did when I first discovered the product.
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK 990
I said an "impressive set of stats and parts." If you look at the insides you will see Siemens caps and very impressive dual toroidal transformers. They claim low negative feedback. My point is you can't get those kind of stats from ok parts and a casual approach.
... "Premium parts," as in the Atma-Sphere options, would be, in my view, things like expensive audiophile caps and resistors, silver wire, etc.
Tim
I would just add meets or exceeds the required or target specifications.
The problem is arriving at a consensus as to what that means. Hence the ambiguity of the definition. Obviously if your philosophy is that only certain parameters matter and that they are easily achieved you are going to have problems with my definition.
Greg, I think you nailed it, not just for those 2 companies but for many. It should almost go without stating that many (most?) use science to varying degrees in the design, manufacture, testing, and tweaking - did I leave something out? - of their products.Both companies have gone to great lengths to achieve their results. They have taken different paths. Both are rooted in science.
Any part in any circuit needs to meet several engineering parameters. So once we find parts that meet these parameters, we don't expect that more expensive parts will add anything (except cost) to the product.
Are you open to the idea that some parts may measure identically yet sound different?
Or 2 digital filters designed (at the same cost and same engineering rigor) to produce different sounds?
Absolutely not. Assuming the right things are measured. If two parts measure identically in all regards, how could they possibly sound different? This is a serious question.
There are many types of digital filters, so I don't understand the question.
--Ethan
I don't mean to be disrespectful. It's just that statement is so qualified that lawyers would call it illusory. I don't know what fine means or normal. Are those scientific terms?Exactly. For most circuits, standard 5% carbon film resistors (2 cents each) are fine, unless it's a balanced input stage where higher tolerance is needed. Or a MM photo input where low noise metal films might be better. Same for normal capacitors (6 cents to 14 cents each) of whatever type is appropriate.
--Ethan
I guess you not allowing the possibility that something measuring virtually identically to 0.00001 can sound different
Are you not potentially closing your mind to a factor that you did not consider?
As to the digital filters, I am talking about flipping a switch on a dcs or an esoteric cd player and getting different sonic signature from each button press. Some will sound overly detailed, while others may sound snappy with a lot of rhythm and pace.
I don't know what fine means or normal. Are those scientific terms?
What is the answer?
How are we going to determine the cause of the superior sound?
Correct. Again I ask, if two components measure exactly the same, how could they possibly sound different? What exactly would account for the difference in sound?
My mind is wide open. All I need is proof. In this case, side by side measurements of the same audio device with one component used inside versus another component. Or a blind test showing that anyone can reliably identify a difference.
What switch? What is the switch labeled? What does the switch purport to do?
--Ethan
In the case of dcs Puccini, a choice of four reconstruction filters is provided for CD playback, these areselected by the Menu button. Some Esoteric models have something similar.
consider an individual standing and looking out into the horizon and measuring a piece of land. The earth looks flat. But as science progressed we found out it's not. What if there are factors or measurements that have not yet been discovered?
your speakers cost $500 ... Say you take hold of a most revealing speaker like a Martin Logan CLX electrostat
Are you open to the fact that you may be able to hear more musical information and are missing something in your analysis?
Not really. It's easy to prove that test gear can measure to far better accuracy and resolution than even the finest ears, and test gear is much more repeatable. So if I wanted to compare the improvement of using one resistor or other component compared to another in a circuit design, I'd simply measure all the relevant parameters with each proposed component. Yes, it really is that easy. Professional audio circuit designers do this every day.
--Ethan