Whither Audio Research

[Kcin]

You know what I concern myself with is the infrastructure and headcount. 40,000 sq. ft. at say $12-13/sq. ft. in Minn. is going to be 500,000 bill or over 40,000/ month not including utilities. Add 25 team members to that. Their payroll is not far off per month including benefits--- add it all up and bolt on inventory and it and it becomes tenuous.

That space looks way under utilized for the size of the operation. I wonder if VAC , VTL or CJ doubled or tripled their output would they need the size of facility ARC has?

They need a good operations professional to sort it out then.... they need real orders not well wishes from us internet quarterbacks. I would imagine there is a lot of trust to be won back from dealers and distributers as well as individual clients. An up hill battle for sure. Good luck to them as I was an ARC owner for well over 30 years.

 

[caesar]

The Acora speakers have been shown in with ARC gear. And Val claims to have owned much ARC.

sure, but how many of his speakers has he sold?
how many of those are driven by arc?

 

[caesar]

Has Fremer given up his solid state amps for audio research?

Or is this video all feel good stuff?

how about other Wilson reviewer like Jason Sirinius? Jakob Heilbronn?

 

[Lee]

Has Fremer given up his solid state amps for audio research?

Or is this video all feel good stuff?

how about other Wilson reviewer like Jason Sirinius? Jakob Heilbronn?

So reviewers can't create content on a company unless they own the gear personally?

Does Fremer's long history of reviewing Audio Research gear matter at all?

Some really stupid comments in this discussion lately. And then everyone trying to run the new company with no idea what the various expenses and overhead items are for the company.

It's sad that when an audio company runs into trouble, there is an entire segment of audiophiles wishing for it's demise.

 

[Another Johnson]

I think it is legitimately a time to celebrate.
Mr. Cora is acutely aware of what needs to happen. I am looking forward to his plans for the new company. He is in a unique position now to move forward, lien free. Give him some time now to catch his breath. I’m excited for him and his team. The best is yet to come.

 

[caesar]

I think it is legitimately a time to celebrate.
Mr. Cora is acutely aware of what needs to happen. I am looking forward to his plans for the new company. He is in a unique position now to move forward, lien free. Give him some time now to catch his breath. I’m excited for him and his team. The best is yet to come.

Let's hope your optimism is justified. they have been trying to sell to wilson owners whose preference is to run those speakers with solid state. Personally , i would like to see a strategy.

 

[Gregadd]

w\hoa Lee.

1. MF can say whatever wants, as he invariably does. It's up to the consumer to decide what weight to give it.
2. MF's revieiews relate only to his reviews. BTW i think at the very least he is gifted at reviewing phono preamps. I don't know what his expertise is in the recovery of distressed corporations.
3.I'll plead relative ignorance rather stupidity. The survival of AUdio Research is inthe interest of all audiophiles.. The form of that survvival is open to speculation even by the experts.
4. Agreed it is sad when the maker of a company encounters financial distress. It usually involves someones' dream.
While Audio Research probably will rise for the ashes, it will not do i nits' previous form. That much I am sure .
IMO YMMV qi

 

[Another Johnson]

While Audio Research probably will rise for the ashes, it will not do i nits' previous form. That much I am sure .
IMO YMMV qi

???
When you’re done with the crystal ball, I’d love a look. And the translation program would be great to borrow too.

I’m thinking that you are predicting that it will not rise to its former glory, and of that much you’re sure.

I wonder how many are aware that WZJ sold his mature business called Electronics Industries in the late 60’s. He took his GI Bill benefits and learned to fly. ARC was created when his buyer ran the company into the ground, accruing $80k in debt. He was able to buy back his intellectual property by assuming the debt, and he then created the original modern high end audio aspect of this hobby.

ARC is as iconic as it gets.

Val Cora has just dropped 7 figures on the bet that he can do what you are sure can’t be done. And he has had boots on the ground now for nearly two months. I think this speaks volumes about his commitment, his faith, and his belief that it will turn out well. He has actually had legal and business advisors.

I am beginning to understand MF’s exasperation with “the peanut gallery.”

 

[microstrip]

(...) I am beginning to understand MF’s exasperation with “the peanut gallery.”

Well, some people here seem to think that the survival of this hobby depends on the death of the more successful iconic brands ...

Surely high end electronics brands must think carefully about their strategy for the future. Audio Research had some very successful tube CD players, but have no noticeable experience in streaming. Although their electronics sound great with digital - one the reasons I keep my ARC Reference since its launch is its excellent matching with the Vivaldi - the future of the high-end is in streaming, not in vinyl. And we do not need a crystal ball to guess it!

 

[Daverich4]

Let's hope your optimism is justified. they have been trying to sell to wilson owners whose preference is to run those speakers with solid state. Personally , i would like to see a strategy.

I drive my Sasha ll’s with a Ref 6 & Ref 75SE. Can’t imagine being happier with the sound.

 

[Lee]

w\hoa Lee.

1. MF can say whatever wants, as he invariably does. It's up to the consumer to decide what weight to give it.
2. MF's revieiews relate only to his reviews. BTW i think at the very least he is gifted at reviewing phono preamps. I don't know what his expertise is in the recovery of distressed corporations.
3.I'll plead relative ignorance rather stupidity. The survival of AUdio Research is inthe interest of all audiophiles.. The form of that survvival is open to speculation even by the experts.
4. Agreed it is sad when the maker of a company encounters financial distress. It usually involves someones' dream.
While Audio Research probably will rise for the ashes, it will not do i nits' previous form. That much I am sure .
IMO YMMV qi

I am confused by this reply as I was not disputing points #1 or #2. Were you thinking of Caeser perhaps? My reply was defending Fremer who is a good friend of mine.

 

[Gregadd]

I am a fan of Fremer. Did you he was a member here?

 

[Another Johnson]

Let's hope your optimism is justified. they have been trying to sell to wilson owners whose preference is to run those speakers with solid state. Personally , i would like to see a strategy.

A couple of thoughts …

1. Not sure where you get your data about who ARC is trying to sell to. My sense from personal experience is that their gear sounds exceptionally good with most speakers and sources. You keep asking about Wilsons or Acoras. ARC gear matches well with both. But you also seem to think that Wilson speakers are hard to drive. You sound like a reader rather than a listener. Wilsons are not hard to drive. They’re typically efficient, and they do not drop off the impedance map. ARC amps and Wilson speakers do not need each other to sound good, but they do sound great together.

2. Send Val Cora your offer to consult and review his plans. I’m sure he’ll be as thrilled as the rest to have your review of his strategy.

 

[Gregadd]

ARC failed. That implies that either their business model was either flawed or poorly executed. Even worse is that it could mean they are no longer relevant.
Picking up their assets for a million dollars hardly constitutes a massive influx of cash. Indeed, that money is already spent. Ideally the money will come from sales. Being an icon alone will not pay the bills. A fact of which they are painfully aware. Theywill need to do something different to affect the bottom line.

 

[microstrip]

A couple of thoughts …

1. Not sure where you get your data about who ARC is trying to sell to. My sense from personal experience is that their gear sounds exceptionally good with most speakers and sources. You keep asking about Wilsons or Acoras. ARC gear matches well with both. But you also seem to think that Wilson speakers are hard to drive. You sound like a reader rather than a listener. Wilsons are not hard to drive. They’re typically efficient, and they do not drop off the impedance map. ARC amps and Wilson speakers do not need each other to sound good, but they do sound great together.

Sometimes we forget that this hobby is also a question of value for money. People immediately think of solid state electronics costing well over $100k (pre+amp) to drive Wilson's but in reality most people want the Wilson sound with less expenditure. And here ARC represents an excellent match at reasonable cost in an hobby where we have more exceptions than rules in matching. For example, Wilson's are known to be preferred when driven by the 8 ohm tap of their tube amplifiers and they are 4 ohm speakers ...

BTW, I had great sound quality with ARC and Sonus Faber Aida's. The SF Futura's were also an exceptional match.

 

[microstrip]

ARC failed. That implies that either their business model was either flawed or poorly executed.

Or a lot of other reasons people we can easily imagine. You are not the only one to have a crystal ball ...

Even worse is that it could mean they are no longer relevant.

Well, only someone who does not have contacts in the professional high end audio can assume such hypothesis. The coulisse movements during the takeover ARC were a real proof of their strong relevance.

Picking up their assets for a million dollars hardly constitutes a massive influx of cash. Indeed, that money is already spent. Ideally the money will come from sales. Being an icon alone will not pay the bills. A fact of which they are painfully aware. Theywill need to do something different to affect the bottom line.

Surely some extra investment and restructuring is needed. Be assured that they are aware of it ...

 

[Another Johnson]

For example, Wilson's are known to be preferred when driven by the 8 ohm tap of their tube amplifiers and they are 4 ohm speakers ...

I’ve read this in reviews. I’ve seen it attributed to Peter McGrath.

I won’t criticize another who prefers it. But I do not. I’ve tried it here on two different ARC amps and two different Wilson models. I get more authentic bass on the 4 Ohm taps. If you get better bass on the 8 Ohm taps, it is because the bass impedance rise (which is well above 4 ohms) is more important in your musical spectrum than the bass impedance dip (which is usually between 2 and 4 ohms). It is also possible that your room reinforces or mitigates the frequencies in the area around the impedance dip.

I do not think this idea is well KNOWN because it is not universally true. I think it is widely BELIEVED and repeated as an article of faith. Nevertheless, it is true under some circumstances for some rooms and program choices.

Note that CJ does not give you the taps to try. They come hardwired for 4 ohms. You can rewire them, or request alternative coupling right from the factory. But the default is 4 ohms.

 

[Gregadd]

There is no need for a crystal ball. Standard business practices apply

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Agreed mate
4 Ohms factory set or using 4 Ohm taps would also be my preferred choice. I'd use only 8 Ohm taps if I were using horns or similarly very high efficiency speakers.

I remember my techie always saying that when factory set for 4 Ohms, the power supplies are also at their full potential, such that the Class A bias is higher on such settings, compared to 8 Ohms. Since the nominal impedence is never going to be consistently flat... it will swing. Therefore, at 4 Ohm settings, the power supplies provide greater drive, more current, and better control, provided voltages are kept stable.

This is usually the case with any well designed power supplies but then again, not all Output stages are well designed. In the past, I've come across quite a number of so called high powered amps that simply ran out of puff driving full range stats or speakers like Apogee's and Infinity's.
The ones that did do a great job, were outstanding! They all incorporated rock solid power supplies, didn't flinch one bit under stress.
They were all rated at 4 Ohms, factory set.

Cheers, and keep those tubes glowing!
RJ

 

[Another Johnson]

There is no need for a crystal ball. Standard business practices apply

Of course they do.
Arm chair with no stake = peanut gallery.

Some started with their first posts in this thread as the omniscient after the fact predictors of demise.

Few here have all the facts… but a handful continue to write and share obits.

Give Cora a chance. He may know more than you do. Either he knows the same as you (or less) and is an idiot who threw over a million bucks and countless hours away on a hopeless cause, or he knows more than you and is balancing his perceived risks and gains. He’s not some hot dog dot com nouveau riche dabbler who’s read a bunch of magazines. He’s an ARC collector, and one of the few who own a REF750SE. And it takes great patience and skill to make speakers out of solid granite, so we already know he’s unusually patient and meticulous.

I like his chances.