Why your audio might be bad - and there is nothing you can do

[dcathro]

David Mellor is an old school recording engineer/producer in the UK and also wrote for "Sound on Sound" magazine.

He has a lot of the typical pro audio attitudes towards audiophiles.

What he is saying in this video is that if you are streaming or playing CDs you are listening to poorly produced material because of the practices of crushing the waveform which have been prevalent since the mid 90s. The only way to avoid this is to listen to music that was produced before this - i.e. early CDs or vinyl.

 

[tima]

@dcathro, thanks for the synopsis.

 

[PeterA]

David Mellor is an old school recording engineer/producer in the UK and also wrote for "Sound on Sound" magazine.

He has a lot of the typical pro audio attitudes towards audiophiles.

What he is saying in this video is that if you are streaming or playing CDs you are listening to poorly produced material because of the practices of crushing the waveform which have been prevalent since the mid 90s. The only way to avoid this is to listen to music that was produced before this - i.e. early CDs or vinyl.

Does this compression for loudness he’s talking about affect pop music only or all genres of music after 1995? I try to buy older vinyl because O think it sounds better than the alternatives.

 

[dcathro]

Does this compression for loudness he’s talking about affect pop music only or all genres of music after 1995? I try to buy older vinyl because O think it sounds better than the alternatives.

I think it is much less with Jazz and classical, and vinyl cannot be crushed to the same extent.

Having said that, I also still find that earlier pressing tend to sound better than later remasterings on all the genres.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Having said that, I also still find that earlier pressing tend to sound better than later remasterings on all the genres. (emphasis added)

So you find that pop recordings from the 1970s and 1980s generally sound better than the tube remastering chain re-issues of the same titles?

 

[JackD201]

David Mellor is an old school recording engineer/producer in the UK and also wrote for "Sound on Sound" magazine.

He has a lot of the typical pro audio attitudes towards audiophiles.

What he is saying in this video is that if you are streaming or playing CDs you are listening to poorly produced material because of the practices of crushing the waveform which have been prevalent since the mid 90s. The only way to avoid this is to listen to music that was produced before this - i.e. early CDs or vinyl.

A lot of what David Mellor is true. A key point where he was wrong is that there is a perception in the production world that there are no limits in digital. At its conception the equipment manufacturers were already telling the end users to be wary of digital clipping. It was being taught in schools before I went for my certification in 2000.

It is the defeatist tenor of his video that is off putting. Firstly it assumes all producers want "that sound". That isn't true. Abuse of effects goes back as far as the invention of effects. One need only listen to artists who spanned the 60s, 70s and 80s. How "overproduced" so many albums were at the height of 24 track 2" Tape and the birth of automation. There were well produced beautiful recordings then and there are today. There was also a lot of junk then as there is today. The bad ones were just forgotten as they fell under more and more layers of fallen leaves.

There is something you can do about it. Two things mainly, choose better or learn how to mitigate the worst effects of normalisation. The latter is actually quite easy and you don't need to spend. TURN IT DOWN. Lol.

 

[dcathro]

So you find that pop recordings from the 1970s and 1980s generally sound better than the tube remastering chain re-issues of the same titles?

Just to clarify, I have a CD replay system, not vinyl. In the majority of cases (say 90%) I find first pressings from the early 80's to sound better than any reissue.

I will give an example - Sonny Rollin's Way Out West.

I have the Analogue Productions 1992 gold CD mastered by Doug Sax, the early Mobile Fidelity, the Japanese (1986) JVC, and the 1985 Carrere French pressing. My order of preference is:

- Carrere - most musical and like the vinyl (I think this was done from the vinyl production tape)
- AP Gold - more HiFi and not as musical, done from the master tapes with added Lexicon reverb
- MoFi - quite muted, lacking dynamics
- JVC - way too dry, done from the master tapes without any reverb.

 

[Keith_W]

Those of you who skipped the last 5 minutes of this video should go back and watch it. In particular, his closing statements on why vinyl masters can be superior to digital, even though both vinyl and digital were mixed digitally.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Just to clarify, I have a CD replay system, not vinyl. In the majority of cases (say 90%) I find first pressings from the early 80's to sound better than any reissue.

Thank you for clarifying. I misunderstood. When you wrote "pressings" I thought you were talking about vinyl.

 

[Al M.]

Just to clarify, I have a CD replay system, not vinyl. In the majority of cases (say 90%) I find first pressings from the early 80's to sound better than any reissue.

I will give an example - Sonny Rollin's Way Out West.

I have the Analogue Productions 1992 gold CD mastered by Doug Sax, the early Mobile Fidelity, the Japanese (1986) JVC, and the 1985 Carrere French pressing. My order of preference is:

- Carrere - most musical and like the vinyl (I think this was done from the vinyl production tape)
- AP Gold - more HiFi and not as musical, done from the master tapes with added Lexicon reverb
- MoFi - quite muted, lacking dynamics
- JVC - way too dry, done from the master tapes without any reverb.

My experience is that new remasters on CD can sound significantly, or even drastically, better than earlier releases, see my post on Black Sabbath and Joni Mitchell CDs here (post #20). I should add that that 2016 Black Sabbath release, as well as another recent one that I have of the band's 'Paranoid' album, sound very dynamic -- clearly without compression that would have been added beyond what might already have been on the original recordings by the band.

There are a number of jazz albums where later CD remasters are clearly superior as well.

 

[Al M.]

Oh, and the CD remasterings of Pink Floyd albums, done around 2011 by James Guthrie, a long-time (since 1978) recording engineer of the band, are all superb. Great sound, with warmth and weight, and great dynamics -- no loudness war compression whatsoever. Clearly done with love for the music.

 

[dcathro]

My experience is that new remasters on CD can sound significantly, or even drastically, better than earlier releases, see my post on Black Sabbath and Joni Mitchell CDs here (post #20). I should add that that 2016 Black Sabbath release, as well as another recent one that I have of the band's 'Paranoid' album, sound very dynamic -- clearly without compression that would have been added beyond what might already have been on the original recordings by the band.

There are a number of jazz albums where later CD remasters are clearly superior as well.

I won't argue with your experience, I am glad you are happy with them.

Oh, and the CD remasterings of Pink Floyd albums, done around 2011 by James Guthrie, a long-time (since 1978) recording engineer of the band, are all superb. Great sound, with warmth and weight, and great dynamics -- no loudness war compression whatsoever. Clearly done with love for the music.

Have you tried the original Japanese Harvest pressings from 1984?

 

[DasguteOhr]

Just to clarify, I have a CD replay system, not vinyl. In the majority of cases (say 90%) I find first pressings from the early 80's to sound better than any reissue.

I will give an example - Sonny Rollin's Way Out West.

I have the Analogue Productions 1992 gold CD mastered by Doug Sax, the early Mobile Fidelity, the Japanese (1986) JVC, and the 1985 Carrere French pressing. My order of preference is:

- Carrere - most musical and like the vinyl (I think this was done from the vinyl production tape)
- AP Gold - more HiFi and not as musical, done from the master tapes with added Lexicon reverb
- MoFi - quite muted, lacking dynamics
- JVC - way too dry, done from the master tapes without any reverb.

mfsl usually cuts worse in terms of dynamic than the original. I have often experienced it myself. I no longer buy mfsl.
For me the best recording

Sonny Rollins - Way Out West

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an 1988 CDvon Way Out West mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

 

[dcathro]

mfsl usually cuts worse in terms of dynamic than the original. I have often experienced it myself. I no longer buy mfsl.
For me the best recording

Sonny Rollins - Way Out West

Auf Discogs können Sie sich ansehen, wer an 1988 CDvon Way Out West mitgewirkt hat, Rezensionen und Titellisten lesen und auf dem Marktplatz nach der Veröffentlichung suchen.

www.discogs.com

Thanks! I have that one too, not as good as the Carrere for me.

 

[Al M.]

Have you tried the original Japanese Harvest pressings from 1984?

No, have you tried the 2011 remasterings?

 

[dcathro]

No, have you tried the 2011 remasterings?

Yes, I have had just about all the different versions of DSOTM and WYWH.

 

[Rensselaer]

The question asked in the title of the video is, “Why our audio is bad”. That is an interesting question to me. It is not as simple as different speaker types and matching amplifiers. What about placement in the room? Dynamics seems an easier subject than tone and nuance and resolution. Now consider turntables and tonearms and racks and cables. Do you really think this is elementary stuff?

I think the OP was telling us that your equipment doesn't matter in that it won't undo the damage done during mastering? He limited his damage done during the mastering stage in that he did not discuss how using solid state in the recording/mastering process will alter the sound from that which uses solely hollow state in the recording/mastering. Same recording/mastering directly from the master tape vs master tape to digital file, then mastering/cutting from the digital file. All will make enormous differences in the quality of the recorded event regardless of what equipment you have put together for playback at home.

 

[PeterA]

I think the OP was telling us that your equipment doesn't matter in that it won't undo the damage done during mastering? He limited his damage done during the mastering stage in that he did not discuss how using solid state in the recording/mastering process will alter the sound from that which uses solely hollow state in the recording/mastering. Same recording/mastering directly from the master tape vs master tape to digital file, then mastering/cutting from the digital file. All will make enormous differences in the quality of the recorded event regardless of what equipment you have put together for playback at home.

Not all of us listen to digital music made after 1995. A friend sent me two of his other videos discussing the problems with vinyl. This guy seems pretty negative on the hobby. That’s fine. Lots of other people seem to enjoy the hobby.

 

[Amir]

Just to clarify, I have a CD replay system, not vinyl. In the majority of cases (say 90%) I find first pressings from the early 80's to sound better than any reissue.

I will give an example - Sonny Rollin's Way Out West.

I have the Analogue Productions 1992 gold CD mastered by Doug Sax, the early Mobile Fidelity, the Japanese (1986) JVC, and the 1985 Carrere French pressing. My order of preference is:

- Carrere - most musical and like the vinyl (I think this was done from the vinyl production tape)
- AP Gold - more HiFi and not as musical, done from the master tapes with added Lexicon reverb
- MoFi - quite muted, lacking dynamics
- JVC - way too dry, done from the master tapes without any reverb.

I agree you, thanks

 

[dcathro]

Not all of us listen to digital music made after 1995. A friend sent me two of his other videos discussing the problems with vinyl. This guy seems pretty negative on the hobby. That’s fine. Lots of other people seem to enjoy the hobby.

He is not biased, He dishes the dirt out on just about everything. It is interesting to listen to him talk about all the things that are wrong with vinyl - yet be amazed that it still can sound wonderful.