Interesting. It could be that a different cartridge would favor the Graham and not the Vertere who knows. The two arm pods could sound different as well.
World Debut: Vertere Reference Tonearm
- Thread starter garylkoh
- Start date
Interesting. It could be that a different cartridge would favor the Graham and not the Vertere who knows. The two arm pods could sound different as well.
I wonder ... what would a $35k arm bring to my particular system which my Alpha, or a bevy of other alternative arms can't?
Would it prove worthy of $35K?
Is it possible that my very rigid titanium, carbide bearing, decoupling counterweight arm is, God forbid, close or just as good? Well, my arm doesn't incorporate "leaf bearing" technology, nor did the pivoting G2.0 which I once owned. OK, I realize that particular Graham wasn't $35K worthy, nor is the subsequent 2.2 or Phantom models, no Reed, Triplaner need apply, or a bevy of other proven alternatives.
But hey, what the f do I know about ultra expensive audio, perhaps this $35K arm needs to be slaved to a Xerxes, or "better" yet, some particular $100k turntable in order to justify $35K. Since I don't own either I'm preparing for the inevitable "your system isn't good enough to reveal what a $35K arm ..."
Ok, hell, perhaps if might prove to be a $35K bargain after all, and hopefully the eventual "leaf spring" trickle down technology will enter my affordability zone, even though it would probably still cost more than the very best Rega?
Well, $35K buys a lot of good looking audio stuff these day, and hey, some of it even sounds decent ... so although it doesn't look like $35K audio bling to my eyes, perhaps ...
Time will tell ...
tb1
Would it prove worthy of $35K?
Is it possible that my very rigid titanium, carbide bearing, decoupling counterweight arm is, God forbid, close or just as good? Well, my arm doesn't incorporate "leaf bearing" technology, nor did the pivoting G2.0 which I once owned. OK, I realize that particular Graham wasn't $35K worthy, nor is the subsequent 2.2 or Phantom models, no Reed, Triplaner need apply, or a bevy of other proven alternatives.
But hey, what the f do I know about ultra expensive audio, perhaps this $35K arm needs to be slaved to a Xerxes, or "better" yet, some particular $100k turntable in order to justify $35K. Since I don't own either I'm preparing for the inevitable "your system isn't good enough to reveal what a $35K arm ..."
Ok, hell, perhaps if might prove to be a $35K bargain after all, and hopefully the eventual "leaf spring" trickle down technology will enter my affordability zone, even though it would probably still cost more than the very best Rega?
Well, $35K buys a lot of good looking audio stuff these day, and hey, some of it even sounds decent ... so although it doesn't look like $35K audio bling to my eyes, perhaps ...
Time will tell ...
tb1
In an endeavor in which some people claim that moving the cables change the sound of a system. a comparison between two arms with two different cartridges can not be construed as a valid.
Frantz,
It depends on what you want to consider a valid comparison in the spirit of this thread. If you trust in the experience, explanations and good will of the people who report, and accept the limitations that can be due to these effects you refer the comparison can be a some value to you. Gary clearly addressed the different cartridge issue, people can not ignore it, but also explained why in his opinion, it would not compromise his and other people opinions. Surely you are free to not agree and make some humor with cable positioning.
I think some people are expecting too much from this thread.
Frantz,
It depends on what you want to consider a valid comparison in the spirit of this thread. If you trust in the experience, explanations and good will of the people who report, and accept the limitations that can be due to these effects you refer the comparison can be a some value to you. Gary clearly addressed the different cartridge issue, people can not ignore it, but also explained why in his opinion, it would not compromise his and other people opinions. Surely you are free to not agree and make some humor with cable positioning.
I think some people are expecting too much from this thread.
ok
I'm quite intrigued by the bearing and the different vertical and horizontal effective lengths. The counterweight also seems rather sophisticated. I wonder if someone could explain why the counterweight is so far away from the pivot? I would think that to decrease the moment of inertia, and thus shorten the arm's reaction time, the counterweight would want to be as close to the pivot as possible. Also, could someone describe the internal wiring and if it is continuous to the phono input? Finally, the wooden insert at the armboard mounting plate is an interesting choice. This would effect the sound pretty dramatically, I would think.
I'm just curious because people discuss the sonic character between different materials to which the arm is mounted. This was an early subject with the NVS Direct Drive table a while back. It was first wood, then what kind of wood and then they ultimately decided to go with a metal which I think is aluminum when it was redesigned to accept 12" arms. This material also moves with changes in temperature and humidity effecting the mounting distance of the arm to the spindle. Though admittedly, this is small. This is also where energy is drained from the arm system into the plinth. Different materials handle vibrations differently. Some armboards or (even arm bases) are massive hunks of metal (Durand Telos, SME 30/12, Micro Seiki, TW Acustics) others are thin or thick acrylic and still others are soft wood, hard wood etc. I'm sure it all makes a difference.
Wood seems to be "in" with tone-arm manufacturers these days, and probably for good reason. I truly enjoyed reading the Reed site in which it compares different woods with sonic evaluations I've used light & rigid wood and alternative metal armboards on my particular turntable, and I must admit that I preferred the wood.
However, although I appreciated my light wood armboard, it didn't nearly make the same kind of sonic difference as changing over to a higher quality DC motor, or isolating noise caused by the motor (they all make noise) and/or the bearing. My turntable has been refined to be DEAD quiet (I mean stethoscope-dead-quiet; audiophiles might just be surprised (or shocked) how many expensive turntables today don't pass the steth test), or tweaking the suspension so that it not only acts like a filter for the motor, but also has a controlled bounce which limits lateral movements (which f's up timing) ... or which rack or mount dissipates mechanical energy best on which the 'table sits ... the list goes on ... I can think of a bevy of other items & issues surrounding turntables & arms that make FAR more of a sonic difference than the simple introduction of wood ... but hey, I'm only basing this on my very own experiences.
That said, it's interesting to note that my particular turntable uses a rigid and light kiln dried mahogany for the plinth ... certainly not your typical oil platform metal monstrosity that's so in vogue these days ... and even more interesting, unlike most metal monstrosities, instead of aluminum, my 'table incorporates extremely hard high carbon steel throughout, and a relatively heavy brass sub/platter.
Look, I don't give a rats behind if the arm is worth $35k, but I certainly understand, without reservation, that if you're going to spend $35K for this arm, you better mount it on a very high quality and very quiet turntable, or it won't sound like $35k arm to my ears. But then again, one can say the exact same thing about all quality tonearms.
tb1
My last thought on this arm....
Personally, I would buy any number of very respectable arms for $5-$10K and with the remaining $25K or more, I would buy a lot of awfully good vinyl. Just IMHO.
Personally, I would buy any number of very respectable arms for $5-$10K and with the remaining $25K or more, I would buy a lot of awfully good vinyl. Just IMHO.
My last thought on this arm....
Personally, I would buy any number of very respectable arms for $5-$10K and with the remaining $25K or more, I would buy a lot of awfully good vinyl. Just IMHO.
I'm wondering, for $35K, if I could hire a good band to play live in my listening room, but then again, that wouldn't include a leaf type suspension.
tb1
My last thought on this arm....
Personally, I would buy any number of very respectable arms for $5-$10K and with the remaining $25K or more, I would buy a lot of awfully good vinyl. Just IMHO.
Dave,
People who buy this arm probably already have the $25K lot of awful good vinyl. And want to spend time listening to it, not buying ...
Micro, maybe you don't really collect vinyl like I do, LOL
. You can NEVER have enough vinyl....it's a disease man.Similar threads
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