Would like to hear the experiences of anyone familiar with both 2060 and the 3000 series power amps

[infinitely baffled]

Hi guys... I'm considering the upgrade from my 2160 to a pair of 3050's.
This will be a major undertaking for me over about a decade (!), so i would truly love to hear from anyone familiar with both the older 2060 and the current 3000 series, before i commit myself to a decade of living on beans on toast☺

Do the 3000's retain the magic of the venerable 2060?
Any thoughts or experiences sought, since auditioning a pair of 3050's in the UK is not (currently) possible.

Btw I've asked Boulder if there are any 3050's in Europe...will let you know what they say.
Thank you in advance for your comments
Gavin

 

[joey_v]

That’s great to see you move up… I have the 2060 and I hope it never leaves me.

 

[LL21]

Hi guys... I'm considering the upgrade from my 2160 to a pair of 3050's.
This will be a major undertaking for me over about a decade (!), so i would truly love to hear from anyone familiar with both the older 2060 and the current 3000 series, before i commit myself to a decade of living on beans on toast☺

Do the 3000's retain the magic of the venerable 2060?
Any thoughts or experiences sought, since auditioning a pair of 3050's in the UK is not (currently) possible.

Btw I've asked Boulder if there are any 3050's in Europe...will let you know what they say.
Thank you in advance for your comments
Gavin

Wow...fantastic! Very exciting. Surely one of the world's super heavyweight champion amps. Definitely reach out to Chuck who owns them. You already know that Boulder have big Focals in their main listening room, and you already have 2160 with your Focals at home. I cannot imagine your not being thrilled with the 3000 series.

I suspect Chuck will have a lot more to say on this but my sense of the magic between 3060 and 3050 might be every so slightly different. Both I suspect will just offer you 'more' of everything you already have with the 2160, but I have read and am told the 3000 series brings more nuance, possibly more mid-tonal density and even quieter noise floor (by a lot). Where the 2 might start to separate is that the 3050s create even cleaner performance (as well as greater expanse, power, control)...whereas the still massive 3060 might come across with an impression of more sweetness in the mids.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I heard the 3050 with 3000 series pre in Munich on YG speakers.
Very dissapointing sluggish sound .
Reminded me somewhat of my 1060..
Boulder has a housesound imo.( as does YG)
I heard the 2000 series on kharma exquisite speakers at a dealer show / not much better.

 

[infinitely baffled]

That’s great to see you move up… I have the 2060 and I hope it never leaves me.

I hear you. Fate had other plans for me, my cat puked on it while i was out with the dogs.
Otherwise I'd still have it now. Boulder struggled manfully with it for some time, in the end they offered me a deal if i traded it back, just so they could take it out of comission, poor abused beast that it was.

 

[infinitely baffled]

I heard the 3050 with 3000 series pre in Munich on YG speakers.
Very dissapointing sluggish sound .
Reminded me somewhat of my 1060..
Boulder has a housesound imo.( as does YG)
I heard the 2000 series on kharma exquisite speakers at a dealer show / not much better.

Thank you. That's a useful data point.
What do you consider a good sounding solid state power amp?

Lloyd is absolutely right about the synergy between big focals and boulder amps.
Iirc Chuck has YG, so there can't be any fundamental incompatibility that would be responsible for your experience.
Its a bit strange, because for me the clearest improvement that arrived with 2160 was levels of slam bordering on violence, which is kind of the opposite of what you're saying. I listen predominantly to dance music so good prat are essential for my enjoyment of music.
i have my issues with my 2160's sound, but speed certainly isn't one of them. I'm just missing that last bit of lush tonality, the richness of timbre i experienced via my 2060. I always had that pegged as the boulder house sound. Exquisite delicacy, lush, rich tone, musicality, authoritative grip, these would be my experiences of the boulder house sound☺
.
Mainly I listen to deep house, drum and bass, soul, trip hop reggae
and a touch of rock pop and folk.

 

[Sule22]

I am using a pair of Boulder 2150 and like them a lot, and have placed an order on a 3060 stereo not the 3050. My dealer just told me a great news that the 3060 will arrive before the end of January. I will report again once it is here.

 

[andromedaaudio]

What do you consider a good sounding solid state power amp?

Top sound :

Gryphon Apex if you want / need power
FM Acoustics 1811
R Koda K 160

I did hear the 3060 together with 2000 series pre too .
That was much better because it was with the Rockport Lyra / Wadax .
IMO.

Construction wise Boulder is superb

 

[andromedaaudio]

Slightly off topic but i probably wouldn t buy amps at all .
Id go for AV G3 with 2 basshorns I tron /amps is built in

 

[infinitely baffled]

I am using a pair of Boulder 2150 and like them a lot, and have placed an order on a 3060 stereo not the 3050. My dealer just told me a great news that the 3060 will arrive before the end of January. I will report again once it is here.

Thats tremendous ☺
Ami right in thinking you are going to match it with a Koda pre-amp?
I would be very interested to hear how that goes. I prefer a valve pre usually, but i understand Koda could be described as valve-like. I still don't think I've found the perfect match myself, and the Koda intruiges me.

 

[LL21]

I heard the 3050 with 3000 series pre in Munich on YG speakers.
Very dissapointing sluggish sound .
Reminded me somewhat of my 1060..
Boulder has a housesound imo.( as does YG)
I heard the 2000 series on kharma exquisite speakers at a dealer show / not much better.

Thank you. That's a useful data point.
What do you consider a good sounding solid state power amp?

Lloyd is absolutely right about the synergy between big focals and boulder amps.
Iirc Chuck has YG, so there can't be any fundamental incompatibility that would be responsible for your experience.
Its a bit strange, because for me the clearest improvement that arrived with 2160 was levels of slam bordering on violence, which is kind of the opposite of what you're saying. I listen predominantly to dance music so good prat are essential for my enjoyment of music.
i have my issues with my 2160's sound, but speed certainly isn't one of them. I'm just missing that last bit of lush tonality, the richness of timbre i experienced via my 2060. I always had that pegged as the boulder house sound. Exquisite delicacy, lush, rich tone, musicality, authoritative grip, these would be my experiences of the boulder house sound☺
.
Mainly I listen to deep house, drum and bass, soul, trip hop reggae
and a touch of rock pop and folk.

While I have heard some people questioned the harmonics of Boulder or its organic qualities...I cannot say I have heard many if any call them sluggish. Given Andromeda's experience (which I am not going to doubt)...I wonder if perhaps the Boulders are SO demanding of power, perhaps there was a sag in power at Munich to be able to drive them fully? Something I could well imagine given that they dont have regular power cables but instead have the commercial grade blue-plug terminations with 3 round pins that you see on stage lighting, etc.

 

[LL21]

Slightly off topic but i probably wouldn t buy amps at all .
Id go for AV G3 with 2 basshorns I tron /amps is built in

Interesting call...my experience with AG Trio G3 and dual bass horns (driven by Emm MTRX monos) was pretty phenomenal. Not perfect, but extraordinarily impressive and definitely was the first set of horns that really made me think about horns longer term.

 

[LL21]

Top sound :

Gryphon Apex if you want / need power
FM Acoustics 1811
R Koda K 160

I did hear the 3060 together with 2000 series pre too .
That was much better because it was with the Rockport Lyra / Wadax .
IMO.

Construction wise Boulder is superb

Like your choices...a lot! Probably my 3 favorite brands. Having owned Gryphon Antileon, Colosseum and Mephisto, I do like the Gryphon sound and could well imagine Apex being entirely next level. In being open to the world other than Gryphon, nothing ever tempted me. And then I came across an opportunity to hear FMA and genuinely very nearly went there...after auditioning their lowest level of monos in our system, I found them exceptionally good...truly...but for the money, they were not at the level of bass power control I wanted. And 1811 was not a price I was willing to go to.

And then along came the Robert Kodas! So we clearly hear 'ear to ear'!

 

[LL21]

I am using a pair of Boulder 2150 and like them a lot, and have placed an order on a 3060 stereo not the 3050. My dealer just told me a great news that the 3060 will arrive before the end of January. I will report again once it is here.

Congrats! That is literally huge news! Look forward to reading all about it! Enjoy!

 

[Sule22]

Thats tremendous ☺
Ami right in thinking you are going to match it with a Koda pre-amp?
I would be very interested to hear how that goes. I prefer a valve pre usually, but i understand Koda could be described as valve-like. I still don't think I've found the perfect match myself, and the Koda intruiges me.

I will try it with Vac Statement pre first as my Koda pre will arrive soonest in March. I have also paired my Boulder 2150 with the ThiVan TMS-9 300b pre with good result (tubes rolled). I also modified my Albedo G2 power cables to work with the Boulder 32A connector and found that made a big improvement over the Boulder stock power cables.

Like your choices...a lot! Probably my 3 favorite brands. Having owned Gryphon Antileon, Colosseum and Mephisto, I do like the Gryphon sound and could well imagine Apex being entirely next level. In being open to the world other than Gryphon, nothing ever tempted me. And then I came across an opportunity to hear FMA and genuinely very nearly went there...after auditioning their lowest level of monos in our system, I found them exceptionally good...truly...but for the money, they were not at the level of bass power control I wanted. And 1811 was not a price I was willing to go to.

And then along came the Robert Kodas! So we clearly hear 'ear to ear'!

I agree with you on the FMA bass power control. I auditioned the FM115 and FM266 mk2 RC in my system and also found bass to be not as well controlled as my Boulder 2150. Everything else on the other hand is really good and natural sounding.

 

[Sule22]

Congrats! That is literally huge news! Look forward to reading all about it! Enjoy!

Thanks! Counting days now!

 

[infinitely baffled]

Slightly off topic but i probably wouldn t buy amps at all .
Id go for AV G3 with 2 basshorns I tron /amps is built in

I do feel i should make the pilgrimage to Germany as there's a buch of speakers on my radar....AG, WVL, German Physiks, Zellaton, and in the Netherlands Siltech.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Interesting call...my experience with AG Trio G3 and dual bass horns (driven by Emm MTRX monos) was pretty phenomenal. Not perfect, but extraordinarily impressive and definitely was the first set of horns that really made me think about horns longer term.

Where did you hear them Lloyd?

 

[infinitely baffled]

I will try it with Vac Statement pre first as my Koda pre will arrive soonest in March. I have also paired my Boulder 2150 with the ThiVan TMS-9 300b pre with good result (tubes rolled). I also modified my Albedo G2 power cables to work with the Boulder 32A connector and found that made a big improvement over the Boulder stock power cables.

I agree with you on the FMA bass power control. I auditioned the FM115 and FM266 mk2 RC in my system and also found bass to be not as well controlled as my Boulder 2150. Everything else on the other hand is really good and natural sounding.

Even better...the Vac Statement is also on my pre-amp shortlist☺

Edit:
Can anyone advise me of the msrp for the Fma 1811?
Just out of curiosity...

 

[chuck]

I heard the 3050 with 3000 series pre in Munich on YG speakers.
Very dissapointing sluggish sound .

Are you referring to this system:

YG Acoustics, Boulder, Aurender, Weiss, Innuos, Technics, Ortofon, Siltech, Hifistay

On the final day of High End Munich, a couple of hours before closing time, I sent the visiting Stereophile crew a message about the new speakers in the YG Acoustics room: “Should you have time and you haven’t visited yet, go listen. Both the passive and active systems there sound phenomenal.”

www.stereophile.com

If so, it is very similar to my current system (YG Sonja XVi with Boulder 1110/3060). IMO you are incorrect and i agree with the Stereophile writer, Boulder on YG is the best sound I have heard. You have some system in mind that is not sluggish by comparison, could you say what it is?

This will be a major undertaking for me over about a decade (!), so i would truly love to hear from anyone familiar with both the older 2060 and the current 3000 series, before i commit myself to a decade of living on beans on toast☺

It has been over seven years since I replaced my 2060 with the 3060 (it took me three years to be able to make that switch). At that time I still had the tube Audio Research Reference Anniversary preamp and Wilson Alexandria X2S2 speakers. The dealer had both a 2060 and 2160 so was able to compare them side by side before deciding to get the 3060. I recall I decided that the 2060 was too similar to the 2160, as between those two I would keep the 2060. I kept the 2060 so that if the 3060 did not live up to expectations, I could go back to the 2060. The 3060 was so much better that the 2060 wound up in a closet until I finally traded it in with the Wilsons on the YG Sonja XVi. When I was auditioning the YGs I did connect the 2060 to see how it did. It did well but nowhere close to the 3060. We even bi-amped the YGs with the two amps but the 2060 simply could not keep up. That was it for the 2060, I'm sure it found a good home. I hope you like beans on toast.

On preamps, the 3000 series (3060 or 3050) change everything so I strongly urge you not to think you can audition preamps with a 2160 and think that experience will tell you how they will work with 3000 series, it won't. The ARC preamp worked better with the 2060 than the 3060. The 3060 is very neutral so played the tube sound very well but maybe too much so. There was a sense that the preamp was holding the amp back. The Boulder 1110 proved that to be the case -- more of the music on the recording makes it to the speakers.

As for lushness, I'm not sure what you mean. The 3060 does have a similar tonality to the 2060. They are both Class A smps to full rated power and sound like it. But neither do they add lushness not on the recording. If it is there, then absolutely. I like to listen to violin music and am a bit of a Joshua Bell groupie -- heard him play a Stradivarius live several times. That is the sound you get, every nuance of the bow on the strings. I listen to Anne Sophie Mutter's "Across the Stars" CD, a very lush sounding recording. If a system adds lushness it is too much.