Ypsilon VPS - 100 phono stage - how good?

[microstrip]

Another would be Allnic's 3000 series MM phono input with Allnic's own 3000 series nuvistor headamp (active headamp instead of input trannie, uses nuvistor tubes). This is the combo I have, but I am surprised very few people have heard the nuvistor device with the Allnic phono stage.

The current Allnic phonos offer all kinds of equalization and loading options. The Nuvistor head amp has four loading options.

Cjfrbw,

What is the nuvistor used by Allnic? Some years ago I found a few 6CW4's from my old conrad johnson premier 7B in a box - they were used in the phono input . The cj premier 7B phono sounded great, but could not be used with very low output cartriges.

 

[mep]

Cjfrbw,

What is the nuvistor used by Allnic? Some years ago I found a few 6CW4's from my old conrad johnson premier 7B in a box - they were used in the phono input . The cj premier 7B phono sounded great, but could not be used with very low output cartriges.

No pure-tube phono section can be used with low output moving coil cartridges without adding too much noise IMO. You either need FETS driving the tube gain stage or you need a set of trafos to step up the voltage. And this is coming from a guy who used to own and love the Counterpoint SA-2 loading into the SA-5.1. Tons of gain and a sound I loved, but tons of noise riding on the signal that today I just can't live with anymore.

 

[MylesBAstor]

No pure-tube phono section can be used with low output moving coil cartridges without adding too much noise IMO. You either need FETS driving the tube gain stage or you need a set of trafos to step up the voltage. And this is coming from a guy who used to own and love the Counterpoint SA-2 loading into the SA-5.1. Tons of gain and a sound I loved, but tons of noise riding on the signal that today I just can't live with anymore.

Have you ever heard the top of the line Jadis phono stage? Plenty of gain for practically any MC and no noise issues.

 

[cjfrbw]

Cjfrbw,

What is the nuvistor used by Allnic? Some years ago I found a few 6CW4's from my old conrad johnson premier 7B in a box - they were used in the phono input . The cj premier 7B phono sounded great, but could not be used with very low output cartriges.

I agree that the nuvistor stage would have to be on a case by case basis with cartridges below about .3mV. However, KS Park managed to get it pretty quiet for an active stage. Active input stages will have some noise, whether they be transistor, tube, nuvistor or whatever compared to a noiseless and humless input coil.

I don't know what specific nuvistor KS Park is using now, but the tube regulated power supply is massive compared to the older CJ nuvistor based devices, which had trivial power supplies and nuvistors suspended on rubber bands for microphonics.

I also imagine that the Allnic nuvistor head amp can be used with any high quality phono stage. You could ask David Beetles at Hammertone Audio.

With the Allnic H3000, the result with the headamp are quite splendid with Allnic Puritas and Verito cartridges.

 

[mep]

Have you ever heard the top of the line Jadis phono stage? Plenty of gain for practically any MC and no noise issues.

Nope. I never had the deep pockets to think about owning the top of the line Jadis gear. I used to feel lucky to own the Jadis Defy 7 MKII until I didn't feel lucky to own it anymore.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I don't know what specific nuvistor KS Park is using now, but the tube regulated power supply is massive compared to the older CJ nuvistor based devices, which had trivial power supplies and nuvistors suspended on rubber bands for microphonics.

I also imagine that the Allnic nuvistor head amp can be used with any high quality phono stage. You could ask David Beetles at Hammertone Audio.

With the Allnic H3000, the result with the headamp are quite splendid with Allnic Puritas and Veritas cartridges.

Digging a little more in my past I also remember a cj Premier Six pre-preamplifier using several nuvistors. I bought it used from a shop that took it in part exchange and was selling it as faulty, because they found it was not working properly as a RIAA stage .

BTW, the power supply of the cj premier 7b was not trivial at all - it was dual mono, stored in aluminum heavy boxes and used exclusivey expensive film capacitors, Vishay resistors and Motorola semiconductors in a double stage regulation scheme. Not usual at that time ...

 

[MylesBAstor]

Digging a little more in my past I also remember a cj Premier Six pre-preamplifier using several nuvistors. I bought it used from a shop that took it in part exchange and was selling it as faulty, because they found it was not working properly as a RIAA stage .

So did the EV 20 that I had. Hated those nuvistors because they went noisy after three or four months

BTW, the power supply of the cj premier 7b was not trivial at all - it was dual mono, stored in aluminum heavy boxes and used exclusivey expensive film capacitors, Vishay resistors and Motorola semiconductors in a double stage regulation scheme. Not usual at that time ...

Their first dual mono, zero feedback design.

 

[cjfrbw]

Digging a little more in my past I also remember a cj Premier Six pre-preamplifier using several nuvistors. I bought it used from a shop that took it in part exchange and was selling it as faulty, because they found it was not working properly as a RIAA stage .

BTW, the power supply of the cj premier 7b was not trivial at all - it was dual mono, stored in aluminum heavy boxes and used exclusivey expensive film capacitors, Vishay resistors and Motorola semiconductors in a double stage regulation scheme. Not usual at that time ...

I was thinking of their dedicated nuvistor phono boxes, which were reputed to be noisy. I was not aware that they also used nuvistors in their high end preamps. I would have to consult the great google god to find out more specifics.

Nuvistors are tricky to implement properly. The sockets are a sticking point, as is microphonics. The older sockets get noisy rather quickly.

Allnic appears to have tamed them in the head amp, with special sockets manufactured by Allnic. They sound pretty amazing when implemented properly.

I believe that the Beetle's "Abbey Road" was mastered on one of the rare Ampex nuvistor pro tape decks.

 

[mep]

Their first dual mono, zero feedback design.

And still extremely rare on the used market.

 

[MylesBAstor]

And still extremely rare on the used market.

I've only ever seen two. One that I heard belonged to fellow colleague Tom Miiller who combined it with the Premier 8 amps.

 

[XV-1]

It’s hard to believe that not that long ago I had well over 50 tubes in my system and viewed anything SS as something spawned from the devil. The road to keeping your sanity in this insane hobby isn’t lined with vacuum tubes-specially for phono stages using low output moving coil cartridges. If you value low noise and high gain stages, you best get to or stay with SS. Once you have lowered the noise floor in your system and increased your dynamic range, it’s very hard to give this up in the name of ‘natural’ harmonics or any other tube descriptor bandied about.

Mep

What is the SS phono stage that has high gain/low noise that you now use?

 

[mep]

Mep

What is the SS phono stage that has high gain/low noise that you now use?

It is the Krell KPE Reference which is designed exclusively for MC cartridges. It has variable gain and loading. It came in two versions I do believe with one version meant to suck power off a Krell line stage. Mine has its own outboard power supply.

 

[jfrech]

Positive Feedback's Marshall Nack reviews the Vitus SP-102 phono and compares briefly to the Ypsilon VPS-100 and the Allnic. Hope Myles can maybe ask Marshall to expand on his comparisons possibly here on wbf...

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue69/vitus_sp102.htm

I am curious about a new phono stage very soon. The Ypsilon, a possible Robert Koda future offering, Allnic (i've had the h3000v in my system), Doshi and who knows what else are on my list...prefer single ended (only have one balanced input on my pre) and single box (ok with outboard sut's or outboard power supply).

 

[Bill Hart]

Positive Feedback's Marshall Nack reviews the Vitus SP-102 phono and compares briefly to the Ypsilon VPS-100 and the Allnic. Hope Myles can maybe ask Marshall to expand on his comparisons possibly here on wbf...

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue69/vitus_sp102.htm

I am curious about a new phono stage very soon. The Ypsilon, a possible Robert Koda future offering, Allnic (i've had the h3000v in my system), Doshi and who knows what else are on my list...prefer single ended (only have one balanced input on my pre) and single box (ok with outboard sut's or outboard power supply).

Nack writes very clearly and his descriptions of sonic attributes are easy to comprehend. What I find troubling is his conclusion that the sonic palette of the Vitus product at 42k is not sympatico with rock or jazz source material. I appreciate 'resolution' but not at the expense of overall tonal balance. I can go from Jacquelyn Du Pre to Black Sabbath to massed choral works in any given listening session. While every component has some sonic signature that may overlay everything played through it, I can't fathom the idea that a component of this calibre is unsuited for particular types of music.

 

[jfrech]

Nack writes very clearly and his descriptions of sonic attributes are easy to comprehend. What I find troubling is his conclusion that the sonic palette of the Vitus product at 42k is not sympatico with rock or jazz source material. I appreciate 'resolution' but not at the expense of overall tonal balance. I can go from Jacquelyn Du Pre to Black Sabbath to massed choral works in any given listening session. While every component has some sonic signature that may overlay everything played through it, I can't fathom the idea that a component of this calibre is unsuited for particular types of music.

I know...have to agree with you. Just reading between the lines...seems like he loves the resolution...up to a point...I get the feeling from this review he still likes his Ypsilon...and really the Allnic also...just the allnic is a step behind in some transparency areas (as it should be for what almost 2/3's less...the fact it is closely hanging around is saying something). I suspect the Allnic DHT phono that is in the same price ballpark as the Ypsilon addresses this...

 

[audioarcher]

Nack writes very clearly and his descriptions of sonic attributes are easy to comprehend. What I find troubling is his conclusion that the sonic palette of the Vitus product at 42k is not sympatico with rock or jazz source material. I appreciate 'resolution' but not at the expense of overall tonal balance. I can go from Jacquelyn Du Pre to Black Sabbath to massed choral works in any given listening session. While every component has some sonic signature that may overlay everything played through it, I can't fathom the idea that a component of this calibre is unsuited for particular types of music.

Good point Bill but that is just in the context of his system. Could be a different story in your system. A cable change or other tweak may also change the equation. It is worth being cautious about though. Try before you buy as they say.

 

[Bill Hart]

Good point Bill but that is just in the context of his system. Could be a different story in your system. A cable change or other tweak may also change the equation. It is worth being cautious about though. Try before you buy as they say.

Ain't spending 42k on a phono stage right now, so no worries there Sean.

 

[Bill Hart]

I know...have to agree with you. Just reading between the lines...seems like he loves the resolution...up to a point...I get the feeling from this review he still likes his Ypsilon...and really the Allnic also...just the allnic is a step behind in some transparency areas (as it should be for what almost 2/3's less...the fact it is closely hanging around is saying something). I suspect the Allnic DHT phono that is in the same price ballpark as the Ypsilon addresses this...

Sooo, Albert has the DHT now, maybe you heard it- Fred Crowder- does he still have the Yip? Dunno where you'd get a Vitus in Texas, but hey, it's a big state. That might be interesting. As Sean rightly says, may also be system dependent.
Are you going to the record convention in Austin in late Oct, J?

 

[jfrech]

Sooo, Albert has the DHT now, maybe you heard it- Fred Crowder- does he still have the Yip? Dunno where you'd get a Vitus in Texas, but hey, it's a big state. That might be interesting. As Sean rightly says, may also be system dependent.
Are you going to the record convention in Austin in late Oct, J?

I need to get up to visit Albert soon, I really want to hear his Allnic DHT phono. Pretty sure Fred has his Ypsilon still and I'd like to hear it also...

When is the record convention? I went last year about got about 8 classical vinyl box sets...all original pressings and seemingly new...was quite a deal for about $200

 

[Lotus]

I know...have to agree with you. Just reading between the lines...seems like he loves the resolution...up to a point...I get the feeling from this review he still likes his Ypsilon...and really the Allnic also...just the allnic is a step behind in some transparency areas (as it should be for what almost 2/3's less...the fact it is closely hanging around is saying something). I suspect the Allnic DHT phono that is in the same price ballpark as the Ypsilon addresses this...

Try the allnic with the allnic head amp. Still less money than the Ypsilon but a whole different ballgame over a stock H3000.

H5000 and Ypsilon not even competitors IMHO.