Zero-Distortion: Visit to Mike Lavigne - Saskia vs CS Port vs NVS, DaVa, Etsuro, Primary Control

Jan 18, 2012
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DaVa Ref is NOT thin or edgy
what I experienced when upgrading from a1 was exceptional channel separation and increased HF linearity, without loosing in the magic harmonics/king tone department
glad so many experience what I did when I first set out on this journey
despite what some might think, I have no commercial interest in DaVa, kickback or anything the like
I simply wanted to promote an outstanding achievement of a cart
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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It sounds like you had fun with Mike L's turntables, arms, cartridges, phonostage and table topologies.

No one likes criticism and you tend to strike back but, but hear me out. I am sure you are proud of your article, but someone needs to say this: You need to organize your thoughts and words much better and write for your reader. The reader should not have to be inside Bonzo's head to understand what he is trying to communicate. There is information in your article and obviously you had some nice insights but it is very difficult to describe so many different variables in a coherent way, which is why there are very very few reviews like this. You jump around so much and make so many references that this reader gave up keeping track of what you were saying, although I read to the end. Just because you have interesting side references, you don't have to include them - they became distractions from your main messages. I did not find your conclusions following from your write-up because it was too jumbled and did not lead me to them.

I don't want to be wholly negative. One way to tackle this sort of coverage is to look across the subject matter and your notes for common themes. Pick two or three at most. Take us stepwise through the gear inside those themes which can be organizers for your observations. Within each theme, take the same order of discussion. One sentence should lead to the next, not be orthogonal to it. An alternative to themes might be to do a section on tonearms and cartridges, another on tables, another on drive topology. I'm speculating here and it would take a fair amount of time to develop a plan for such a broad article. That does not mean to make it simpler just better organized. I will read it again to see if I change my mind, but that was first impression.

It was interesting to hear about Mike's gear and I liked the quality of the photos.
as far as Ked's writing style, i respect what you are saying about the apparent low level of organization upon a first read. but i think in the context of Ked's earlier writing, the 'stream of consciousness' style Ked uses does communicate the essence of what he wants to convey. he makes his points and i'm guessing enjoys the writing part. his enthusiasm and personal process comes across. not letting it rip might be too distilled and dispassionate. the reader is motivated to work a little to grasp it. i think it's right as it is.

if i were an editor and Ked was doing a review which was meant to stand on it's own to a fresh reader, i would agree with you. but that is not what is going on here. it's a chapter of a book. the reader is already on board.

and asking and answering questions to figure stuff out is part of the fun. his article is just the first salvo.
 
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PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Ked, thank you for sharing your impressions of Mike’s system with the rest of us. I enjoyed reading your article.

Will you write another article about the rest of your visit to the west coast of America and the other systems you heard? Also, did anyone allow you to take any videos?
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Ked, thank you for sharing your impressions of Mike’s system with the rest of us. I enjoyed reading your article.

Will you write another article about the rest of your visit to the west coast of America and the other systems you heard? Also, did anyone allow you to take any videos?

Jeff’s speaker is still in transition. So not ready for an article yet as I will need to hear it proper with multiple amps either in his or somewhere else. In fact after I left he cleaned up all contacts of his crossover, found the right midrange was loose, and now I understand is sounding better, but he is also getting new crossovers made. Keep in mind it was a vintage in storage for many years. I think his drivers sound quite organic

the tannoy deserves a whole article on its own with Montesquieu’s system playing a large role and the Westminster as well, but that will take a while to write. I have some Westminster videos.

Mike offered that I take videos if I wanted to, but the videos would not represent his whole room so I didn’t.
 
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Verdier

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Oct 7, 2018
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Have you heard the primary control arm with a primary control DD TT?
Coincidentally, I had this combination visiting me last weekend, equipped with a Lyra Atlas.

My turntable is a Platine Verdier with Acoustical Systems Axiom and Palladian.

Phonostage was an Aries Cerat Talos Sig.

My combo had an advantage in low bass (on a few recordings I put on that had a lot of differentiated sound in the sub-bass area). Otherwise, unfortunately, the PrimaryControl combo had more to offer in many respects. No difference like day and night, but a certain amount more space, timbre etc., but above all more dynamics.

Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to find out from which component the differences originated (that wasn't the actual reason for the listening session either). In any case, I would say that the PC combination is really good.

(I hope not to disturb the thread with this, that's not my intention)
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
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Coincidentally, I had this combination visiting me last weekend, equipped with a Lyra Atlas.

My turntable is a Platine Verdier with Acoustical Systems Axiom and Palladian.

Phonostage was an Aries Cerat Talos Sig.

My combo had an advantage in low bass (on a few recordings I put on that had a lot of differentiated sound in the sub-bass area). Otherwise, unfortunately, the PrimaryControl combo had more to offer in many respects. No difference like day and night, but a certain amount more space, timbre etc., but above all more dynamics.

Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to find out from which component the differences originated (that wasn't the actual reason for the listening session either). In any case, I would say that the PC combination is really good.

(I hope not to disturb the thread with this, that's not my intention)
One of the things I loved about my Voyd TT (three motor with split phase PSU) was the dynamics, but it was a bit “dirty” sounding from motor noise. My Yamaha GT-2000 has the smoothness and silence of the best belt drives but the punch and dynamics of a multi-motor belt or idler drive. The Exclusive P10 motor is similar in that regard.

The Peimary control is and interesting concept with variable torque.
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Kedar,

Now that you know you like the DaVa, how are you feeling about a linear tracker? What would be your process going forward to decide for yourself between TD124 (or similar) + DaVa versus Vyger + Red Sparrow?
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
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if i were an editor and Ked was doing a review which was meant to stand on it's own to a fresh reader, i would agree with you. but that is not what is going on here. it's a chapter of a book. the reader is already on board.

I agree that most of his writing is similar. Here it becomes more difficult to follow due to its length. Bonzo you are more effective when you are more coherent. You can be when you work at it.
 

108CY

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May 4, 2013
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One of the things I loved about my Voyd TT (three motor with split phase PSU) was the dynamics, but it was a bit “dirty” sounding from motor noise. My Yamaha GT-2000 has the smoothness and silence of the best belt drives but the punch and dynamics of a multi-motor belt or idler drive. The Exclusive P10 motor is similar in that regard.

The Peimary control is and interesting concept with variable torque.
The voyd reference was quite a different beast with its massive papst motors and huge power supply
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Mike offered that I take videos if I wanted to, but the videos would not represent his whole room so I didn’t.

I don’t really know what that means, because you take a lot of other videos of other systems that you say are representative of the systems. I don’t know what you mean here with the words whole room. Did you actually take some videos and then find they don’t represent the sound of the system?
 
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Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I don’t really know what that means, because you take a lot of other videos of other systems that you say are representative of the systems. I don’t know what you mean here with the words whole room. Did you actually take some videos and then find they don’t represent the sound of the system?
if Ked took videos in my room, i never observed him doing it. i told him i was fine either way. he always sat in the sweet spot everyone behind him.

as far as the video's maybe not representing my whole room, we never spoke about that part. is it a different method with large rooms and tall speakers? i have no idea.

i was actually curious exactly how video's are properly done and then up loaded, so would have been ok if he had done some....i might have learned about how to do them.

in any case nothing nefarious about it. ask Bob, or Erik, or Mark, or Jeff. maybe they saw him take some.
 
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cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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LoL! Writing style is Srajan Ebaen Lite, but at least I only have to read it twice to get most of the gist.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Kedar,

Now that you know you like the DaVa, how are you feeling about a linear tracker? What would be your process going forward to decide for yourself between TD124 (or similar) + DaVa versus Vyger + Red Sparrow?

i actually alluded to this on am earlier post and also on Bill’s thread. The DaVa will be more consistent across systems, and will do all the attributes (space stage extensions etc) more. For dynamic cones and planars I will start with it. It is also great for those who cannot afford high spend tables as it will bring much more to the system.

it is possible in some cases especially sets horns where I have seen it work best like vyger Red sparrow, it could work more magic but these will be very specific synergy/matching cases.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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I agree that most of his writing is similar
So my last three reports, Vyger, Sigma MAAT, and Mike’s read similar or similarly organised? I thought not but readers will have different perspectives
 

Cohnaudio

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2016
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It sounds like you had fun with Mike L's turntables, arms, cartridges, phonostage and table topologies.

No one likes criticism and you tend to strike back but, but hear me out. I am sure you are proud of your article, but someone needs to say this: You need to organize your thoughts and words much better and write for your reader. The reader should not have to be inside Bonzo's head to understand what he is trying to communicate. There is information in your article and obviously you had some nice insights but it is very difficult to describe so many different variables in a coherent way, which is why there are very very few reviews like this. You jump around so much and make so many references that this reader gave up keeping track of what you were saying, although I read to the end. Just because you have interesting side references, you don't have to include them - they became distractions from your main messages. I did not find your conclusions following from your write-up because it was too jumbled and did not lead me to them.

I don't want to be wholly negative. One way to tackle this sort of coverage is to look across the subject matter and your notes for common themes. Pick two or three at most. Take us stepwise through the gear inside those themes which can be organizers for your observations. Within each theme, take the same order of discussion. One sentence should lead to the next, not be orthogonal to it. An alternative to themes might be to do a section on tonearms and cartridges, another on tables, another on drive topology. I'm speculating here and it would take a fair amount of time to develop a plan for such a broad article. That does not mean to make it simpler just better organized. I will read it again to see if I change my mind, but that was first impression.

It was interesting to hear about Mike's gear and I liked the quality of the photos.
I will add one other point:. I thought it was unfair to take a snipe at the GPA Monaco table. You don't explain what your issue is with the table or make any comparison. I have the GPA Monaco II and think it is one of the finest turntables I have heard. If you disparage a particular product, you owe it to your readers to explain your basis for the statement
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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I will add one other point:. I thought it was unfair to take a snipe at the GPA Monaco table. You don't explain what your issue is with the table or make any comparison. I have the GPA Monaco II and think it is one of the finest turntables I have heard. If you disparage a particular product, you owe it to your readers to explain your basis for the statement

i have before, on my blog and posts. Can’t do it each time. You you can search. You can also read Fremer’s review page 4 which I completely concur with. Think it’s the most negative review he has ever written.
 
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Ron Resnick

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108CY

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