Zu loudspeakers

[213Cobra]

Phil/Caesar, you may be amazed or horrified (or both) in that I've sold Audion (Black Shadows 845s and Quattro 4 box pre) to go w Nat Audio 211s.

We know about your 211 amps, Marc. We look the other way, since you're still in the Zu fold!

 

[SETDrugs]

1/ All Druid generational advances have been part of a continuum. Even the incremental improvements in original Druid through v4-08 steadily improved the speaker's objectivity without leaving anything essential to the Druid immediacy and intimacy behind. So Druid 5 was pretty much exactly what I expected it to be based on how far v4-08 had come from the original. It certainly sounded more thoroughly modern, owing especially to the upgrade to the Radian 850 supertweeter, so Druid finally sounded harmonically complete. And Druid 5 had seriously quelled the cabinet talk of early version, and the heavier plinth helped ground the speaker. D5 was really the first serious revamp of the form factor for resonance control.

Conceptually, Druid 6 is of the same evolutionary continuum, but it is such a holistic attack on energy waste and noise, that resulting performance sounds like a reset of the design. Every aspect of Druid 6 music presentation is objectively better than Druid 5. The immediately-striking boosts are in bass depth and character, and reach of its dynamic projection into a room. Brand new it's tight like all brand new Zu speakers, then in a month or two the FRD limbers up and the dielectrics burn in and you are startled and impressed by how much more dynamic life there is to Druid 6 than Druid 5. As I said at the outset, it's *vivid*! With time all the other factors bloom: tone, definition spatial projection, tonal linearity, etc. and you get the sense the Druid 5 was the end of an evolutionary line; Druid 6 is the start of a new vector. It's also significant that in the past, Druid advancements tended to be informed by new techniques pioneered in Definition. Now, Druid 6 became the R&D project yielding the foundational principles for the next Definition, next Soul, Soul Supreme and even the eventual "Experience." With any luck, the eventual Experience will benefit from trickle-up from Druid 6 and trickle-down from Dominance.

2/ I didn't elongate my commentary on Druid 6 with a lot of detail about the cabinet and drivers because the raw facts were fairly extensively catalogued by Srajan Ebaen, with lots of help from Sean, in Six Moons 10 or 11 months ago, here: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/zu3/2.html

I didn't want to be too redundant or end up with something so long, nobody would read it.

Here's what Sean Casey had to say about this to me last autumn:

"...Really, the main feature, which is also to say the largest benefit to fidelity, is our new full-range driver. It is designed to mate with the new Druid cabinet in such a way as to drastically reduce the system’s reflected energy—noise generated by driver and cabinet are all significant reduced—without having to burden the loudspeaker with the tradition of huge dollops of sound-to-heat damping material. The new driver fits within the Druid-VI cabinet's full-depth 90? precision machined conical socket; the very high dynamic compression, tension and torque forces are generated and distributed through the driver, massive backside thrust washer and the cabinet’s superstructure. Such a tightly controlled mechanical impedance transfer system allows us to off-load and direct this undesirable yet unavoidable* dirty energy from the cone assembly and driver framework and move it into targeted nodal/transfer rods within the loudspeaker. The improvements in sound are significant and are very easy to hear and measure throughout all domains of fidelity.

"*Sure, if we we could get upwards of 120dB-SPL/1W @1m we wouldn’t have to do this, as nearly all that dirty energy would be converted into nearly noise-free sound waves.

"The super tweeter, while still based on the fantastic Radian 850 is also new and also employs the same 90? precision machined conical socket-type mounting outlined in the full-range driver text.

"The cabinet is crazy. For that I would reference the article over at six moons http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/zu3/2.html

"New base works with the new cabinet."

Now, when I reference the focus on the cabinet and energy management in Druid 6, I think of the new FRD and ST drivers casing and interfaces with the cabinet as integral to the cabinet revisions. If you could install the current D6 drivers in a D5 cabinet, the resulting speaker would sound different from a D5 but it wouldn't be a D6. Similarly if you just installed D5 drivers in a D6 cabinet, you still don't have a Druid 6. One without the other only goes so far. So, particularly the tension mounting of the FRD, not having it just hung from the baffle, is a huge step forward and making the speaker tonally more objective and dynamically both more precise and more energetic. But the designs of the drivers, how they are mounted, and how the cabinet suppresses noise and routes "dirty energy" to ground are products of holistic engineering to boost the directness and prominence of the FRD's transducer function over noise and distortion. In toto, I consider the holistic and integrated energy management in Druid 6 to be more the source of the great leap forward for this form factor, than the continuing electro-magnetic and materials doping of the drivers themselves.

Which means the next Definition is going to be a kick-ass speaker! And so will the diminutive Soul/Soul Supreme. I've learned that Sean noodles many changes on the way to finalizing a design, so while I think you can easily extrapolate from current Soul how Druid 6 techniques will reset that speaker too, it's too early to try to pin down the nuances. In all the time I've followed the company and used its products, I've seen only that Sean does in loudspeaker -- and cable -- design what we do in software: late binding. One has many threads in play, buys as much time to think as possible, and gels an executed product as far into the pre-production phase as possible.

Because the Soul cabinet is smaller and simpler than Druid 6, it will cost less, and of course it is visually less intrusive to a room. Also it's quite possible that if you want to use SET amplification with a Druid 6-based speaker, the next Soul Supreme will allow it, for not delivering that last bit of new bass extension that D6 delivers compared to D5. On the other hand, to get every benefit of Druid 6, you have to buy a Druid 6. Nevertheless, you can be confident that a next Soul leveraging Druid 6, will be a true successor speaker to what you own now.

Druid 6 narrows the differences between intrinsic Druid form factor sound and what comes out of Definition 4. That gap is going to open up again with the likely Definition 6, but I fully expect the two 6ers will no longer sound like they are two distinct branches on a family tree. With Druid 6, Sean has laid the foundation for one Zu sound.

Phil

Thanks Phil for the very thorough reply. From what Sean told me, he just said the next Soul will have the same performance of the Druid 6 with very similar cabinet and construction methodology but with a custom FRD based on new Druid for obelisk cabinet and the same modified Radian tweeter. The main difference in cost savings seems to be from the absence of the machined aluminum bottom plinth of the Druid. The one thing he said that I was a bit surprised by was that for upcoming Soul, driver layout will be same as Druid - ie, Radian below FRD so not like on my Soul Supreme with Radian on top. He said he explored both layout on the new Soul and this was clearly better to him.

I'm so excited because I've been bugging Sean for nearly 3 years about a true successor to the Supreme. Every single speaker in the Zu line ( Dominance was under revision ) has been updated in one form or another at least once except the Supreme and I always joked with him about this fact. I've read somewhere that the Supreme wasn't even supposed to exist for Zu, that it was basically a Superfly cabinet with the Radian swapped in. Assuming what Sean says is true and based on your Druid 6 review, I'm pretty sure upcoming Soul will be my final speaker purchase in this hobby. There's just something so classy and elegant looking the way Zu does the obelisk mid-century design of the Supreme / Superfly and I've always been more attracted to this.

Anyways since I'm so happy with the bass performance of my current Soul Supreme and SET amp, I'm hoping this will continue with the upcoming Soul. Based on my modest room ( nearfield bedroom system) and listening habits, I'm very looking forward to pair all Mayer amplification chain to this groundbreaking speaker from Zu.

 

[SETDrugs]

If Sean had an investor, he'd get Experience, "Dominance 2" and Def6 done all at once. He has capital limitations. He will take a custom order on a Dominance config anytime. But in terms of models, I think you will see Def6, SoulX, and Experience before a new Dominance. -Phil

Phil , not sure if Zu rededicated their focus and change course over the last year but as of few days ago I was told that Dominance is very close to being done. Sean says maybe debut at RMAF but by end of year is very likely. From what I can remember he says they may not even release Experience or it'll be much later.

He did say next Soul and Def most likely debut at RMAF. Let's hope so but no point in rushing this. Better for it to be ready when it's truly ready.

 

[213Cobra]

Any given week, Zu release plans can be fluid until they are not. For example, if Sean has a Dominance customer, that will accelerate the speaker because he doesn't want to build another pair structured like v1.0, ever. I think you can count on Soul/Soul Supreme and Def. The rest is highly subject to change.

Phil

 

[spiritofmusic]

Phil, you're a self confessed non fan of 211s thru Zus. Can you expand on that? I had been running my Defs 4 thru Black Shadows 845s v happily for two years, but felt the Nats brought something extra to the party, mainly greater saturation of sound in my larger than average room (at the time 800 sq ft/10,000 sq ft). In comparison, the Black Shadows had the edge on treble definition and transparency, and being a little quieter. But on balance I felt there is more presence and texture w the 211s rather than the 845s.

So Phil, where are 211s failing in yr opinion?

 

[213Cobra]

>>Phil, you're a self confessed non fan of 211s thru Zus. Can you expand on that? I had been running my Defs 4 thru Black Shadows 845s v happily for two years, but felt the Nats brought something extra to the party, mainly greater saturation of sound in my larger than average room (at the time 800 sq ft/10,000 sq ft). In comparison, the Black Shadows had the edge on treble definition and transparency, and being a little quieter. But on balance I felt there is more presence and texture w the 211s rather than the 845s.

So Phil, where are 211s failing in yr opinion?<<

Marc,

I think you've answered your own question. "...Black Shadows had the edge on treble definition and transparency, and being a little quieter.." I've never heard any 211 amp that matches Audion Black Shadow in those respects, and if there was any advantage to the 211 in presence and texture, it did not register with me that way. 211 amps sound thick and slower to me than any Audion amps, though maybe an Audion 211 would be different. They don't build one, however. You are also running Parallel Single Ended 211s for 70w, against 24 for a single-845 Black Shadow, so you have over 4db of power advantage. Maybe you need that for your room and your flexy suspended floor so I suspect you find some meaningful differences not explained by the two amps' intrinsic SQ characteristics alone. I just thought the NAT 211 sounded less agile, articulate and that Audion delivers more realistic tone and certainly greater speed and transparency, but I listened to them both in a 20.5' x 14', 8.5' room not fully bounded, in an open plan house. Way different from your vast room. Different circumstances. I didn't hear NAT 211 bring anything additive of value over Black Shadow, and did hear some deletions.

Phil

 

[spiritofmusic]

That's pretty easy to understand. It was actually my old room that was the challenge, that room and this are 800 sq ft, but in terms of volume, my current room is 5000 cub ft, and my old one was 2x that, at 10,000 cub ft.

It may be that my old Black Shadows would work better here. I did try them briefly here, but the Nats seem better suited.

Music making and satisfaction is a truly holistic process. For me, texture and tonal saturation thru my Zus seem better on the Nats, and has swung my decision.

But I certainly loved the Black Shadow 845s thru the Zus five years ago, they were my big intro into the joy of triodes that I can't ever imagine reversing on.

The only Q is whether I move on to the Definitions 6 or Experiences, or whether even if I stick w my 4s, whether I look at reinvestigating Audion or even check Thomas Mayer. SETDrugs here absolutely loves Mayer-Zu synergy, and having heard a top top Mayer setup on Pnoes horns, I can vouch for their addictive purity and truthfulness.

 

[caesar]

Phil/Caesar, you may be amazed or horrified (or both) in that I've sold Audion (Black Shadows 845s and Quattro 4 box pre) to go w Nat Audio 211s.

Spirit,

I think I read that in your other thread.... I don't have much experience with NATs, as I don't think it's available in the US (heck, SETs are not big in the USA at all), and I am not sure I would be happy with the 845 tube vs the 300B, especially with what I have heard from the Audion Dream...

But I also wouldn't upgrade to the new Druid 6 design if SETs don't work with it...So you and I may be looking for a slightly different flavor from Zu.

 

[caesar]

That's pretty easy to understand. It was actually my old room that was the challenge, that room and this are 800 sq ft, but in terms of volume, my current room is 5000 cub ft, and my old one was 2x that, at 10,000 cub ft.

It may be that my old Black Shadows would work better here. I did try them briefly here, but the Nats seem better suited.

Music making and satisfaction is a truly holistic process. For me, texture and tonal saturation thru my Zus seem better on the Nats, and has swung my decision.

But I certainly loved the Black Shadow 845s thru the Zus five years ago, they were my big intro into the joy of triodes that I can't ever imagine reversing on.

The only Q is whether I move on to the Definitions 6 or Experiences, or whether even if I stick w my 4s, whether I look at reinvestigating Audion or even check Thomas Mayer. SETDrugs here absolutely loves Mayer-Zu synergy, and having heard a top top Mayer setup on Pnoes horns, I can vouch for their addictive purity and truthfulness.

Hi Spirit,
What are your thoughts on 300B amps for Zu? What I heard was a TONE TO DIE FOR. Yes, One could get speed and transparency from non-analytical SS. But not that tone.

 

[morricab]

Hi Spirit,
What are your thoughts on 300B amps for Zu? What I heard was a TONE TO DIE FOR. Yes, One could get speed and transparency from non-analytical SS. But not that tone.

Which 300B amp? They can sound very different and some are clearly colored and others are crystal clear.

 

[caesar]

Which 300B amp? They can sound very different and some are clearly colored and others are crystal clear.

The 300B amp I heard recently is Audion Golden Dream.A PSET model, actually, I believe. Very musically transparent, spectral fast, dynamic, and tone to die for. Did wonders for mediocre rock, blues, pop, and soul recordings. Sure, one gets better bass wallop with SS, but I didn't miss a thing when listening - complete state of flow ...

I may be experientially impoverished, but I can't imagine a better amp for Zu (at least the non-Druid 6 model). With other speakers may be a completely different issue, though.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Caesar, unlike others in audio, I probably don't do enough due dilligence in demoing lots of alternatives before settling on choices.

I heard both Pass SS and Atmasphere OTL prior to first investing in Zu in 2008, and both were compelling, the Zu spell working on me almost instantly.

I then ran my Defs 2 at home w my existing Hovland HP200 tube pre and Radia SS. Having read Phil's adventures on Audiogon succesfully running his Druids and Defs w Audion Black Shadows 845 and Golden Dreams 300B, on his advice I found a used pr of Shadows, and was in triodes heaven.

A couple of years later I demoed the Straingauge cart and the system used the Nats I now own. I bought the cart, and despite some misgivings on the Nat sound, they left a massive impression on me, so much so that two years later I felt compelled to home demo the units I'd heard that day.

Four years later, they're still w me. Now, I'll admit that they're not as crystalline as the Audions or some of the primo SETs I've heard since (Thomas Mayers 46 and 211 comes to mind). But in my really large room, they really get my Zus to saturate the space, w the kind of mids texture and tonal density that really reminds me of live unamplified.

Everything in audio is a balance of compromises. The trick is to veer twds balance over compromise. I've sacrificed some immediacy and lightness of touch for more centre of gravity and heft.

 

[BobShermanEsq]

"State of flow"
Caesar, very nice, and appropriate turn of phrase.

Not just a phrase, but the secret to happiness.

 

[morricab]

>>Phil, you're a self confessed non fan of 211s thru Zus. Can you expand on that? I had been running my Defs 4 thru Black Shadows 845s v happily for two years, but felt the Nats brought something extra to the party, mainly greater saturation of sound in my larger than average room (at the time 800 sq ft/10,000 sq ft). In comparison, the Black Shadows had the edge on treble definition and transparency, and being a little quieter. But on balance I felt there is more presence and texture w the 211s rather than the 845s.

So Phil, where are 211s failing in yr opinion?<<

Marc,

I think you've answered your own question. "...Black Shadows had the edge on treble definition and transparency, and being a little quieter.." I've never heard any 211 amp that matches Audion Black Shadow in those respects, and if there was any advantage to the 211 in presence and texture, it did not register with me that way. 211 amps sound thick and slower to me than any Audion amps, though maybe an Audion 211 would be different. They don't build one, however. You are also running Parallel Single Ended 211s for 70w, against 24 for a single-845 Black Shadow, so you have over 4db of power advantage. Maybe you need that for your room and your flexy suspended floor so I suspect you find some meaningful differences not explained by the two amps' intrinsic SQ characteristics alone. I just thought the NAT 211 sounded less agile, articulate and that Audion delivers more realistic tone and certainly greater speed and transparency, but I listened to them both in a 20.5' x 14', 8.5' room not fully bounded, in an open plan house. Way different from your vast room. Different circumstances. I didn't hear NAT 211 bring anything additive of value over Black Shadow, and did hear some deletions.

Phil

Haven’t heard Black Shadows but if they are more transpare

The 300B amp I heard recently is Audion Golden Dream.A PSET model, actually, I believe. Very musically transparent, spectral fast, dynamic, and tone to die for. Did wonders for mediocre rock, blues, pop, and soul recordings. Sure, one gets better bass wallop with SS, but I didn't miss a thing when listening - complete state of flow ...

I may be experientially impoverished, but I can't imagine a better amp for Zu (at least the non-Druid 6 model). With other speakers may be a completely different issue, though.

Interesting, I was always curious to hear that model. I have a 300B PSET, the JJ322, which is very good with the right speakers. It has quite large double “C” core OPTs so can deliver bass punch cleanly. It has that inner resolution thing and lovely but not overly warm tone and highs are a bit softish. It doesn’t equal my Aries Cerat Genus but it is not disappointing either.

 

[213Cobra]

Audion 300B amps tend to narrow some of the very wide differences between various makers' 300B tubes. Put another way, the Audion sonic traits are not obliterated by any make of tube. But there are clear differences nevertheless, that will affect your assessment of relative transparency, for example.

My Golden Dream pair were originally equipped with Audion-labelled Shuguang-production solid plate 300B. Other than having been matched, they were identical to what at the time I bought them could be purchased online for $80/pair. They sounded beautiful. The same tubes when put in other 300B amps, e.g. Sophia, sounded nowhere nearly as convincing. The Audion amps elevated those prosaic (and durable) tubes. Sophia mesh plates (really perforated-plates) made by TJ put a euphonic and gorgeous sheen on everything, but certainly shaded the sound toward the romantic. Bass was harmonically exaggerated (euphonic bloat) compared to the leaner solid plate 300Bs. Midrange was tone-rich. Transparency was set back a bit by a gossamer haze that was in no way unpleasant, but also a little less real. A lot of people like that sound. Neither tube caused the Golden Dream to lose any of Audion's trademark transient speed.

The biggest disappointment was the revered-by-some, handmade, Japanese Takatsuki. These cost almost $2000/pair and they were lifeless. Smooth to a fault and veiling of transparency. They had the same effect on the Luxman Anniversary 300B SET ($24,000) I was asked to audition and to find an appropriate tube complement for. I understood immediately that people who like the Takatsuki simply like the vintage and 1980s Japanese triode sound, which sands everything down to a satin sonic finish.

The winner over the years, by far, was the KR Audio balloon glass 300B. Bass discipline, attack and depth were clean and approached push-pull class. All through the midrange all of the tone and harmonic richness one expects from 300B were present, but presented objectively and with dynamic agility and impact. The top end had the right hardness to it (not ever harsh) and harmonic completeness to deliver realistic life to leading events and percussive detail. The KR 300B also advanced the intrinsic transparency of the Audion circuit / OPTs.

At ~$1800 for two matched pairs, the KR 300B might seem expensive, but that's half the cost of the Takatsuki and comparable to the upper tier Sophias. The KR 300B is incredibly well-made, long-lasting and physically durable, with incomparable glass.

I've heard a lot of 300B SET, PSET and P-P amps over the last few decades. I've never heard anything 300B more musically convincing (including sheer transparency) than the Audion Golden Dream pair running KR Audio 300B or older KR Enterprises 300B. My pair were Level 6, with silver secondary windings in the OPTs. If I circle back to these again, it will be to order a pair maxed out for all-silver windings in the PT and OPT, which will be magnificent.

It was a 15 year run. And now I am on an amplification expedition as I bracket my choices. Fun!

Phil

 

[spiritofmusic]

Phil, have you ever considered using the new production Thomas Mayer/Elrog tubes. Universally lauded, but pricey at c.$3k per pair.

I'd have considered them, but my Nats are not self-biasing, thus not practical. Certainly if I ever return to Audion, or go the Mayer route, these tubes will be a no-brainer.

 

[213Cobra]

Marc,

I haven't paid much attention to Elrog since their many catastrophic QC failures in the earlier days. I know they've rebooted. I want to see some track record. It reminds me of over a decade ago when the KR845 with its ribbon filament was melting down regularly, and every few months the community broadcast the all-clear signal, only to find some new poor sucker found their KR845s melting through the floor to the Earth's core.

I'm also sceptical of community perceptions of triode tubes I haven't heard. The Takatsuki are a good example. Lauded everywhere, completely underwhelming and disappointing for me. A lot of people listening to single-ended triode amps aren't at all interested in objective, natural sound so you really have to read between the lines of their expressions online to divine what you're actually going to hear if you take their recommendation.

Shuguang has a 100w dissipation metal plate 845C now. It's hard to get in the USA but Tube Doctor sells it in and from Germany. Unlike the earlier Shug 845C metal plate that was dissipation-rated for 70w, and was exceedingly clean but steely-bright in Black Shadow (worked great in waking up a Melody 845), the 100w dissipation version is quite neutral and beautiful, with excellent, defined bass. And the Psvane 845-T carbon plate isn't far from it, muscular and not somewhat on the warm side like the traditional (and indestructible) 845B graphite plate. The KR845 sounds fab, until it doesn't. I heard original Elrogs once in my Black Shadow pair, and found it quite good but more different than better. Given the problems at the time, I got them the hell out of my amps as soon as I could assess them.

I haven't dug into Thomas Mayer, so it must now be time to.

Phil

 

[spiritofmusic]

Phil, I had a nightmare time w the old Elrog 845s on my Black Shadows.
Amazing SQ in every way.
But brutal unreliability, 3 pairs in 9 months.
And then I sold the amps on.
--
FWIW, it seems that Elrog tubes reliability has been turned around w Mayer in charge, and SQ impvd too. I'd suggest you seriously consider them, if you can afford them.
And give the Mayer amps a go. SETDrugs here adores Mayer 2A3s on his Soul Supremes, Audiophile Bill and Zerostargeneral are the guys to reach out to here on all things Mayer.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I just read yr comment Phil, that the Elrogs in the BSs were more "different" than better. For me they were slam dunk superior in every way to stock and Pvsane 845s.

This suggests to me, no suprise, we REALLY do all hear VERY differently. Hence my overall (although not full) preference for Nat over Audion in my particularly challenging sized space.

 

[morricab]

Audion 300B amps tend to narrow some of the very wide differences between various makers' 300B tubes. Put another way, the Audion sonic traits are not obliterated by any make of tube. But there are clear differences nevertheless, that will affect your assessment of relative transparency, for example.

My Golden Dream pair were originally equipped with Audion-labelled Shuguang-production solid plate 300B. Other than having been matched, they were identical to what at the time I bought them could be purchased online for $80/pair. They sounded beautiful. The same tubes when put in other 300B amps, e.g. Sophia, sounded nowhere nearly as convincing. The Audion amps elevated those prosaic (and durable) tubes. Sophia mesh plates (really perforated-plates) made by TJ put a euphonic and gorgeous sheen on everything, but certainly shaded the sound toward the romantic. Bass was harmonically exaggerated (euphonic bloat) compared to the leaner solid plate 300Bs. Midrange was tone-rich. Transparency was set back a bit by a gossamer haze that was in no way unpleasant, but also a little less real. A lot of people like that sound. Neither tube caused the Golden Dream to lose any of Audion's trademark transient speed.

The biggest disappointment was the revered-by-some, handmade, Japanese Takatsuki. These cost almost $2000/pair and they were lifeless. Smooth to a fault and veiling of transparency. They had the same effect on the Luxman Anniversary 300B SET ($24,000) I was asked to audition and to find an appropriate tube complement for. I understood immediately that people who like the Takatsuki simply like the vintage and 1980s Japanese triode sound, which sands everything down to a satin sonic finish.

The winner over the years, by far, was the KR Audio balloon glass 300B. Bass discipline, attack and depth were clean and approached push-pull class. All through the midrange all of the tone and harmonic richness one expects from 300B were present, but presented objectively and with dynamic agility and impact. The top end had the right hardness to it (not ever harsh) and harmonic completeness to deliver realistic life to leading events and percussive detail. The KR 300B also advanced the intrinsic transparency of the Audion circuit / OPTs.

At ~$1800 for two matched pairs, the KR 300B might seem expensive, but that's half the cost of the Takatsuki and comparable to the upper tier Sophias. The KR 300B is incredibly well-made, long-lasting and physically durable, with incomparable glass.

I've heard a lot of 300B SET, PSET and P-P amps over the last few decades. I've never heard anything 300B more musically convincing (including sheer transparency) than the Audion Golden Dream pair running KR Audio 300B or older KR Enterprises 300B. My pair were Level 6, with silver secondary windings in the OPTs. If I circle back to these again, it will be to order a pair maxed out for all-silver windings in the PT and OPT, which will be magnificent.

It was a 15 year run. And now I am on an amplification expedition as I bracket my choices. Fun!

Phil

Give Aries Cerat a try if you are now on the search again...