Zu loudspeakers
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I've now had four fascinating horns based demos in the last 12 months.
This ACerat setup incl Kassandra dac, monos and Symphonia horns; Thomas Mayer amps on Pnoes and Gran Sfera horns at The General; several years ongoing SGM/45 tubes/AG Duos at Blue58.
Add a good Cessaro Liszts demo on Bakoon SS Class A, five years ago.
And a host of really poor horns experiences too.
The Ares Cerat system was hugely impressive, probably more tonally saturated than the Mayers on Pnoes or Sferas. But then again the ACerat was 65W in a room 5x smaller than The General's using 1.46W on Pnoes and 28W on Sferas.
The Mayer-Pnoes/Sferas have the edge on speed, transients and PRaT.
FWIW, the Liszts-Bakoons gave me more goosebump factor than either, despite shortcomings in the system (more accurately, the room).
Blue's Duos feel a bit more consistent over a wider range of genres, not sure if this is the horns or active cones subs.
But the ACerat system did tick a lot of boxes, and is, of all the horns I've mentioned, the closest tonal similarity to my Nats at home, albeit w massively greater transparency and lower noisefloor.
This ACerat setup incl Kassandra dac, monos and Symphonia horns; Thomas Mayer amps on Pnoes and Gran Sfera horns at The General; several years ongoing SGM/45 tubes/AG Duos at Blue58.
Add a good Cessaro Liszts demo on Bakoon SS Class A, five years ago.
And a host of really poor horns experiences too.
The Ares Cerat system was hugely impressive, probably more tonally saturated than the Mayers on Pnoes or Sferas. But then again the ACerat was 65W in a room 5x smaller than The General's using 1.46W on Pnoes and 28W on Sferas.
The Mayer-Pnoes/Sferas have the edge on speed, transients and PRaT.
FWIW, the Liszts-Bakoons gave me more goosebump factor than either, despite shortcomings in the system (more accurately, the room).
Blue's Duos feel a bit more consistent over a wider range of genres, not sure if this is the horns or active cones subs.
But the ACerat system did tick a lot of boxes, and is, of all the horns I've mentioned, the closest tonal similarity to my Nats at home, albeit w massively greater transparency and lower noisefloor.
Sounds like a fun experience Marc. Does this leave you on the horns of a dilemma... have you been able to resolve whether horns are for you or not?
Dear Marc,
Visit BKK and hear Gamma/Lamm. You might get goose bumps, speed, transient, PRaT, transparency, tonal saturation, lower noise floor and a Thai massage while listening all in one.
Kindest regards,
Tang
I have an analogy for horns. They're like the thoroughbred racehorse, pedigree cat, show dog. When on song, in the right circumstance, all fantastic.
But the wrong circumstances - any noise in yr system magnified by 108dB forensicness, poor masterings and hot mixes ruthlessly pulled apart, non audiophile genres exaggerated as flat and schizo. Etc etc.
Now yr racehorse doesn't glide but kicks you in the cojones, now yr pedigree cat doesn't want to sit and purr on yr lap, now yr showdog never wants to run in the mud.
The Zus OTOH, while never hitting the stratospheric crystalline heights of Pnoes, AG Trios, Symphonias, Liszts etc, esp on my genres, remain totally addictive for being as true to the essential heart of music via uber communicativeness, reproducing the weight of tone and timbral accuracy I hear in live unamplified, while being so much more forgiving and genre agnostic, and critically, sympathetic to poor masterings and mixes way more than any horns I've heard.
Only Blue's AG Duos approach universal appeal on prog, fusion, electronica, Americana, as well as classical, jazz, vocal.
Zus not shifting anytime soon.
But the wrong circumstances - any noise in yr system magnified by 108dB forensicness, poor masterings and hot mixes ruthlessly pulled apart, non audiophile genres exaggerated as flat and schizo. Etc etc.
Now yr racehorse doesn't glide but kicks you in the cojones, now yr pedigree cat doesn't want to sit and purr on yr lap, now yr showdog never wants to run in the mud.
The Zus OTOH, while never hitting the stratospheric crystalline heights of Pnoes, AG Trios, Symphonias, Liszts etc, esp on my genres, remain totally addictive for being as true to the essential heart of music via uber communicativeness, reproducing the weight of tone and timbral accuracy I hear in live unamplified, while being so much more forgiving and genre agnostic, and critically, sympathetic to poor masterings and mixes way more than any horns I've heard.
Only Blue's AG Duos approach universal appeal on prog, fusion, electronica, Americana, as well as classical, jazz, vocal.
Zus not shifting anytime soon.
Tang, I've only had goosebumps from horns on 3 occasions.
Cessaro Liszts 5 years ago, I'd have done anything to buy them that day.
Denman Exponential Horn, 24' of pure adrenalising out of body experience, nothing compares.
Blue's AG Duos at varying levels of optimisation just pressing my buttons.
Tang, I'm gonna love Dean Martin in yr room, like his voice is pure butter.
Rush "2112", maybe not so much...
Re Thai Massage, I hear the masseurs all went on strike after Ked left you. Something about the clients getting fat on dessert before main course.
Glad to hear you liked the AC system...come hear the setup in Munich this year...it will have additional bass horns and will be powered by their magnum opus amplifier.
On quite a bit of stuff, yes. Esp the material that is pulled apart by horns.
With Zu, it's more a consistent smile on my face across whole swathes of recordings. They're deffo feel-good transducers. Emotional, not cerebral.
Brad, there have been a few conventional systems that have appealed too. But actually, stellar non Zu rigs have been panels, User211's modded Duettas, and Z Axis Audio's modded ML Spires.
The box spkrs that have ticked boxes for me have been stand mounts that I initially wouldn't have guessed would be stellar, Elac B6 setup, and recent Thrax Lyras on Thrax hybrid amps (all hugely modded).
The box spkrs that have ticked boxes for me have been stand mounts that I initially wouldn't have guessed would be stellar, Elac B6 setup, and recent Thrax Lyras on Thrax hybrid amps (all hugely modded).
Hi Spirit,
Nice analogies.... I haven't heard a whole lot of horn speakers, because they are not really marketed in the USA, but I have a lot of experience with box speakers, stats, and omnis.
My gut feeling is that you won't find anything like Zu - for the music you like.
Different technologies excel at different things, so you may add other flavors and options. If you get a horn, you will listen to more Classical. With stats and (proper-powered, non-syrupy) tubes, the vocal midrange is incomparable and jazz is outstanding...
But those adventures will cost you BIG!!! Only you can answer is if such a side-trip from your journey is worth it.
Caesar, there's a big school of thought that it's spkrs that are the big decision, even more than the source. I kinda agree w that. I always used to think it was the source. But there are dozens of tts and cdps or servers/dacs I could live with, but literally less than a dozen spkrs (that I know of).
Hand in hand w this is the synergy w amps, predeliction for tubes over SS, and the presentation of favourite genres.
Put this into the melting pot, and Zu w SETs is one specific stew that emerges. Now I find it impossible to disentangle the unique USP of Zu (as SETDrugs and 213Cobra, and now you, Caesar, have put even better than me), it's spooky synergy w SETs, and hugely impressive genre agnosticism/sympathy to rubbish mixes and production. Throw in Zu ability to fill two massive rooms of mine w the kind of Wattage that wouldn't awaken a Wilson or Magico or Apogee from it's slumbers, while sounding rich and involving at low levels, and it's a recipe I'd struggle to apply CONSISTENTLY going to horns, or panels, or complex multi driver cones.
And despite maybe reasonable criticsm I've tweaked a tweak too far, Zus have lapped it all up, both performing way beyond the level I first had them when I bought them, while losing none of their huge addictiveness.
Hand in hand w this is the synergy w amps, predeliction for tubes over SS, and the presentation of favourite genres.
Put this into the melting pot, and Zu w SETs is one specific stew that emerges. Now I find it impossible to disentangle the unique USP of Zu (as SETDrugs and 213Cobra, and now you, Caesar, have put even better than me), it's spooky synergy w SETs, and hugely impressive genre agnosticism/sympathy to rubbish mixes and production. Throw in Zu ability to fill two massive rooms of mine w the kind of Wattage that wouldn't awaken a Wilson or Magico or Apogee from it's slumbers, while sounding rich and involving at low levels, and it's a recipe I'd struggle to apply CONSISTENTLY going to horns, or panels, or complex multi driver cones.
And despite maybe reasonable criticsm I've tweaked a tweak too far, Zus have lapped it all up, both performing way beyond the level I first had them when I bought them, while losing none of their huge addictiveness.
I listen many horn speaker in italy made with Ale,Goto,Tad,Coral,Vitavox,Altec,from 3 to 6 way and many was very exciting.
I visit Munich in 2016 and 2015 and all horns speaker i listen no one was decent at any price,could be no bad Living Voice
I visit Munich in 2016 and 2015 and all horns speaker i listen no one was decent at any price,could be no bad Living Voice
Gian, I dont have Ked's appetite for airline food so I may have to pass on travelling abroad to hear some of these. I have a sneaking curiosity for Haigner horns, and have a standing invite to visit Azzolina Audio in France if I want to reinvestigate the Hadrons and Gran Sferas.
But really, I'm more convinced than ever Zu will remain my spkr of choice, the only decision being stick w my setup as, consider moving from Nat to Thomas Mayer (10Y pre and 845s or 211s), move up to the Definitions 6 or new Experiences (again maybe w the Mayers).
Having got close to fully cracking the code of optimal sub bass integration, I will not lose any sleep if I never move past this setup. Long may Sean prevaricate on the new models LOL.
But really, I'm more convinced than ever Zu will remain my spkr of choice, the only decision being stick w my setup as, consider moving from Nat to Thomas Mayer (10Y pre and 845s or 211s), move up to the Definitions 6 or new Experiences (again maybe w the Mayers).
Having got close to fully cracking the code of optimal sub bass integration, I will not lose any sleep if I never move past this setup. Long may Sean prevaricate on the new models LOL.
>> I just read yr comment Phil, that the Elrogs in the BSs were more "different" than better. For me they were slam dunk superior in every way to stock and Pvsane 845s. <<
Well, stock in a Black Shadow was the lowly 845A. It is better in every way to that. I had a chance to listen to Elrog 845s (before the change in ownership), KR845, Psvane 845, 845B and 845C metal plate in one session. The two most alike were the Elrog and the KR -- also the two least reliable, most hazardous-to-amps tubes in the group, at the time. When I say different more than better, it's because the Elrog was beaten on resolution and speed by the metal plate 845C, and I got more spatial projection out of both the Psvane and the early 845C-100w dissipation tube.
But on balance it's fair to say the Elrog had the fullest polar graph of musical attributes. I just didn't trust it and it wasn't better enough to risk the pyrotechnics. If Mayer has resolved the QC issues, maybe I'll circle back.
Phil
Well, stock in a Black Shadow was the lowly 845A. It is better in every way to that. I had a chance to listen to Elrog 845s (before the change in ownership), KR845, Psvane 845, 845B and 845C metal plate in one session. The two most alike were the Elrog and the KR -- also the two least reliable, most hazardous-to-amps tubes in the group, at the time. When I say different more than better, it's because the Elrog was beaten on resolution and speed by the metal plate 845C, and I got more spatial projection out of both the Psvane and the early 845C-100w dissipation tube.
But on balance it's fair to say the Elrog had the fullest polar graph of musical attributes. I just didn't trust it and it wasn't better enough to risk the pyrotechnics. If Mayer has resolved the QC issues, maybe I'll circle back.
Phil
Phil, my compare was stock v Pvsane v Elrog. If they weren't so unreliable, they, and the whole amp, might have been keepers.
Certainly if I go Defs 6 or better still, Experiences, I'll be open to reinvestigating Black Shadows w the Mayer/Elrog 845s, and also Thomas Mayer 845 and 211 amps, which come w these tubes as standard.
FWIW, cost of base level Mayers amps is equivalent to Black Shadow amps w designer Graeme's top level all-silver upgrades.
Certainly if I go Defs 6 or better still, Experiences, I'll be open to reinvestigating Black Shadows w the Mayer/Elrog 845s, and also Thomas Mayer 845 and 211 amps, which come w these tubes as standard.
FWIW, cost of base level Mayers amps is equivalent to Black Shadow amps w designer Graeme's top level all-silver upgrades.
Not wanting to get dragged down in volleying around ugly figures in terms of filthy lucre but just how many pre brexi €’s are the Thomas Mayer base versions of the 10y pre and 211 amps. I had been thinking they were much more not inexpensive than affordable even if still so very, very delectable/desirable.
£7k gets base Audion Black Shadow 845, £10k w Mayer/Elrog 845 tubes.
£25k for topmost Level 7 all-silver upgrades, £28k this w Mayer/Elrog tubes.
£25k for topmost Level 7 all-silver upgrades, £28k this w Mayer/Elrog tubes.
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