Best way of recording vinyl to pc

[Bird509]

tried searching for this subject but found nothing so if it has been discussed previously or is being discussed then happy to close this thread down. after some advice/guidance on the best way to record my vinyl to pc. want to try and achieve the highest quality possible. turntable is a Brinkmann Oasis with a Lyra Kleos and Luxman L-509x.

 

[mtemur]

The best quality can only be achieved with best equipment. Or I should say the quality of rips can only be as good as your equipment. That doesn’t mean you don’t have a good setup. IMO they do set a very good platform for good quality vinyl rips. That’s said, I think choosing the best pressing in best condition and cleaning the vinyl are very important as well as achieving perfect alignment of everything. Probably they’re more important than the equipment itself.

After you made sure you ticked all the boxes above you should use a good A/D converter. I’m using RME but Lynx Hilo known to be good converter and Benchmark is also very famous for this purpose. If you want a better alternative I recommend checking Merging Technologies Anubis.

The software and how much processing you’re going to use will shape the final sound. It may be enjoyable, easy flowing or lifeless and over processed. I tried almost all software and decided on Izotope RX. Cedar looks a bit more professional but I don’t think it offers the flexibility that Izotope does. The rest cannot come close to Izotope in my opinion.

 

[rDin]

I highly recommend VinylStudio as the capture/processing software. It has everything you need from capture, to cleaning, and splitting tracks etc etc. For years I was using iZotope RX for cleanup with Audacity for capture, but VinylStudio does it all.

Record LPs and Tapes to CD and MP3 on your PC or Macintosh

VinylStudio software makes it easy to transfer your records and tapes to CD and MP3. Runs on both PC and Macintosh Computers and includes a full set of sound cleaning filters.

www.alpinesoft.co.uk

Then pair it with a high quality ADC, for instance, I'm using:

ADI-2-Pro FS R BE - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions

RME Audio Professional Live, Studio, Recording and Broadcast Solutions. Unrivalled Quality, Performance & Stability MADI Interfaces, Converters & Preamps.

rme-audio.de

I highly recommend going with the highest sample rate you can when capturing vinyl - I find the higher the sample rate the more transparently "vinyl" it sounds on digital replay, and as a minimum 192/24 (I work with 768/24).

 

[mtemur]

I highly recommend VinylStudio as the capture/processing software. It has everything you need from capture, to cleaning, and splitting tracks etc etc. For years I was using iZotope RX for cleanup with Audacity for capture, but VinylStudio does it all.

Record LPs and Tapes to CD and MP3 on your PC or Macintosh

VinylStudio software makes it easy to transfer your records and tapes to CD and MP3. Runs on both PC and Macintosh Computers and includes a full set of sound cleaning filters.

www.alpinesoft.co.uk

Then pair it with a high quality ADC, for instance, I'm using:

ADI-2-Pro FS R BE - RME Audio Interfaces | Format Converters | Preamps | Network Audio & MADI Solutions

RME Audio Professional Live, Studio, Recording and Broadcast Solutions. Unrivalled Quality, Performance & Stability MADI Interfaces, Converters & Preamps.

rme-audio.de

I highly recommend going with the highest sample rate you can when capturing vinyl - I find the higher the sample rate the more transparently "vinyl" it sounds on digital replay, and as a minimum 192/24 (I work with 768/24).

iZotope can also do capturing and does it very well. I used to use Audacity for this purpose long time ago when I don't have iZotope. Why did you move from iZotope to VinylStudio? Apparently VinylStudio is cheaper but also very primitive in my opinion.

 

[Rexp]

This seems like a great solution :

 

[mtemur]

This seems like a great solution :

Sure. Korg MR-2000 is a great solution for recording/capturing vinyl as well as Tascam DA-3000 which is under the Korg in the video. They both do DSD but you have to convert it to PCM to do any kind of processing/editing. RME ADI-2 Pro might offer better recording quality but I’m not sure.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

not trying to be a contrarian, but these days with so much streaming content out there for the taking, my expectation would be that about 95% of any vinyl you could rip would be out there accessible from a streaming platform; and likely be tape based, so at least having equivalent performance to your particular vinyl set-up. and considering the expense of setting up a ripping platform, and all the effort involved, the streaming alternative would not cost you more and not be as finnicky to maintain. and it would take a quite high level ripping process to get beyond streaming files if it was even possible. your dac will still be a limit to either streaming files or ripped files.

unless you are 'off grid', or maybe just are in lust with the particular character of your vinyl for some reason, hard to justify ripping any more. maybe you just want some files on your hard drives? i can see that. but the expense might not be the best use of your dollars.

but stuff does not have to make sense.

i have over 1000 2xdsd vinyl ripped files and while i like them plenty, mostly i prefer the streaming files to those rips at this point when i compare. the streaming performance equation has really upped it's game and is a better thing to invest in at this point. just my opinion. put the ripping process money into a better dac and you have advanced your situation.

YMMV.

 

[rDin]

Do both. Buy a great DAC to play back those streams AND high resolution vinyl rips If somebody is starting from a preference for vinyl then my guess is that a streaming solution won't fully satisfy, particularly compared to a high quality vinyl rip. If they are format agnostic then streaming has massive convenience, no question.

Something like the RME ADC will convert to 768 and DACS like Chords will play back at 768. There aren't yet many streaming solutions that offer such resolutions, or even half that.

But even at normal resolutions you often benefit from better mastering / less compression on the vinyl, so those files still sound better overall.

The major downside is the work involved. I rip every album I play but often fail to keep on top of processing and so I have a huge backlog to work through. Not to mention storage expense, including backups. Higher resolution rips can chew through disc space.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Do both. Buy a great DAC to play back those high resolution vinyl rips

in the context of the OP's system you are talking maybe doubling his system spend to hit those goals.

If somebody is starting from a preference for vinyl then my guess is that a streaming solution won't fully satisfy, particularly compared to a high quality vinyl rip. If they are format agnostic then streaming has massive convenience, no question.

i have very serious vinyl and very serious tape; and prefer tape based digital streaming files to vinyl rips. can higher sampling rates for ripping change that????? the less processed tape sourced files have higher musical realism and the vinyl rip process has it's own dumbed down signature. all that processing has a cost in musical terms. and high dsd sampling rates does not eliminate it.

but it can be a personal vinyl signature preference thing. and maybe a system synergy thing if the tonal signature needs warming up. more natural system signatures don't need it in the same way. lots of ways to cut that part.

and if you like it, then you like it. but lots of messing around for not much benefit. and if you are doing 4xdsd or 8xdsd then you are eating up lots of storage too. most listeners are going to choose the streaming files especially improving the dac.

The major downside is the work involved.

for sure. more work, less listening. always bad in the short term....but in the long run maybe good? a question.

 

[Rexp]

not trying to be a contrarian, but these days with so much streaming content out there for the taking, my expectation would be that about 95% of any vinyl you could rip would be out there accessible from a streaming platform; and likely be tape based, so at least having equivalent performance to your particular vinyl set-up. and considering the expense of setting up a ripping platform, and all the effort involved, the streaming alternative would not cost you more and not be as finnicky to maintain. and it would take a quite high level ripping process to get beyond streaming files if it was even possible. your dac will still be a limit to either streaming files or ripped files.

unless you are 'off grid', or maybe just are in lust with the particular character of your vinyl for some reason, hard to justify ripping any more. maybe you just want some files on your hard drives? i can see that. but the expense might not be the best use of your dollars.

but stuff does not have to make sense.

i have over 1000 2xdsd vinyl ripped files and while i like them plenty, mostly i prefer the streaming files to those rips at this point when i compare. the streaming performance equation has really upped it's game and is a better thing to invest in at this point. just my opinion. put the ripping process money into a better dac and you have advanced your situation.

YMMV.

Did you find a better streamer? Because on the evidence of the videos of your system below, your vinyl blows away your digital. Of course there are digital albums that do sound as good as vinyl but they are few and far between.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Did you find a better streamer? Because on the evidence of the videos of your system below, your vinyl blows away your digital. Of course there are digital albums that do sound as good as vinyl but they are few and far between.

i don't now and never do comment on the SQ of any videos. have a nice day.

 

[mtemur]

not trying to be a contrarian, but these days with so much streaming content out there for the taking, my expectation would be that about 95% of any vinyl you could rip would be out there accessible from a streaming platform; and likely be tape based, so at least having equivalent performance to your particular vinyl set-up. and considering the expense of setting up a ripping platform, and all the effort involved, the streaming alternative would not cost you more and not be as finnicky to maintain. and it would take a quite high level ripping process to get beyond streaming files if it was even possible. your dac will still be a limit to either streaming files or ripped files.

unless you are 'off grid', or maybe just are in lust with the particular character of your vinyl for some reason, hard to justify ripping any more. maybe you just want some files on your hard drives? i can see that. but the expense might not be the best use of your dollars.

but stuff does not have to make sense.

i have over 1000 2xdsd vinyl ripped files and while i like them plenty, mostly i prefer the streaming files to those rips at this point when i compare. the streaming performance equation has really upped it's game and is a better thing to invest in at this point. just my opinion. put the ripping process money into a better dac and you have advanced your situation.

YMMV.

I agree with you. For mainstream and famous releases, streaming is great, but not every vinyl record is available on streaming services. Additionally, not all of them are transferred from the master tape or from a tape in good condition. In those rare cases, ripping vinyl and digitally cleaning the recording can make sense.

In my case, I used to do this for albums that were set to be reissued but no master tapes around and making vinyl rips the only option.

 

[microstrip]

not trying to be a contrarian, but these days with so much streaming content out there for the taking, my expectation would be that about 95% of any vinyl you could rip would be out there accessible from a streaming platform; and likely be tape based, so at least having equivalent performance to your particular vinyl set-up. and considering the expense of setting up a ripping platform, and all the effort involved, the streaming alternative would not cost you more and not be as finnicky to maintain. and it would take a quite high level ripping process to get beyond streaming files if it was even possible. your dac will still be a limit to either streaming files or ripped files. (...)

If people prefer the vinyl sound, most probably they would prefer their own rips.

More than ten years ago we had a nice thread on the subject lead by Gary Koh of Genesis - he even send me some his rips to listen - and on his advice I bought a Korg MS 2000. I did a few vinyl rips in DSD and I must say that I preferred some of them to the Qobuz current versions. Many Qobuz versions of old recordings sound poor - we can't expect to get quality transfers every time from old tapes. Unfortunately copyright rules forbid it - it would be great to have streaming from high quality rips made from top turntables using high quality ADCs ...

 

[tony22]

I’m wondering why the Sweet Vinyl SC2 Pro hasn’t been mentioned yet. Seems like a nice device for this sort of thing, but perhaps it does not produce results similar to these others mentioned?

 

[rDin]

In the context of the OP's system you are talking maybe doubling his system spend to hit those goals.

OP's stated goal was "best possible solution". Only he can decide what that is worth?

i have very serious vinyl and very serious tape; and prefer tape based digital streaming files to vinyl rips. can higher sampling rates for ripping change that?????

Depends whether you think digital is lossy (in any important way) or not? We know that the sampling theory is perfect, but that the implementation, especially of reconstruction filters, in hardware is limited by physics. So, if the vinyl is "lossless" (ignoring inherent issues with the format) in the sense that the analogue waveform is transcribed accurately, and digital is "lossy" in the sense that no digital system yet fully reconstructs the original pre-sampled waveform, then, yes, I'd say there is potential for rips to sound better because those higher sample rates will be closer to the original waveform after reconstruction than the lower rate streamed versions.

If digital is perfect (and all DACs sound alike) because bits is bits, then it's likely that all you need is the streaming solution to be happy.

but it can be a personal vinyl signature preference thing.

It can be, but as above, I believe it's more fundamental. Vinyl is fundamentally "less broken" than digital and you can hear that when listening. But that's a discussion for the "is vinyl or digital better?" threads!

most listeners are going to choose the streaming files especially improving the dac.

They are indeed.

 

[rDin]

I’m wondering why the Sweet Vinyl SC2 Pro hasn’t been mentioned yet. Seems like a nice device for this sort of thing, but perhaps it does not produce results similar to these others mentioned?

It's a *great* device (I had the SC1 and SC1 Plus, but no longer use them - long story). But it is limited to 192/24 *and* there are now issues getting hold of them and of support from what I've read. But, yeah, if you wanted to be able to rip and declick and split tracks etc, the Sugar Cubes are worth a look.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Buy a used e.g sony md recorder 24bitAD/DA analog in then digital out to pc audio card or when you not have spdif use a mutec 1.2 interface with bidirectional usb. Sony superbit mapping is close to r2r machines.

MUTEC – Digital Audio Equipment – High End | Professional Audio - MC-1.2Nicht mehr lieferbar!

MUTEC Germany - Manufacturer of Digital Audio and Video Studio Equipment

www.mutec-net.com

 

[mtemur]

It's a *great* device (I had the SC1 and SC1 Plus, but no longer use them - long story). But it is limited to 192/24 *and* there are now issues getting hold of them and of support from what I've read. But, yeah, if you wanted to be able to rip and declick and split tracks etc, the Sugar Cubes are worth a look.

I don’t think limiting AD conversion to 192/24 is a weakness. In fact, I don’t believe higher sample rates offer significant improvements over 96/24. There may be a slight improvement when moving from 44.1/16 to 96/24, but beyond that, the gains are minimal. It’s likely more dependent on the equipment (ADC/DAC) being used than the sampling rate itself. Maybe your equipment performs better on higher sampling rates.

On the other hand, in my experience, almost every other parameter is more important than sampling frequency—the quality of the ADC, cables, digital processing, etc. IMHO, the real weakness of SweetVinyl and similar products lies in their auto-cleaning and de-clicking algorithms. IMHO/IME, iZotope RX offers the best de-clicking tool; none of the competing software comes close, let alone SweetVinyl or other simplified solutions. However, it must be operated manually—otherwise, you can hear the degradation caused by the de-clicking process.

De-noising is no different. More digital processing usually means more harm, so I keep it to a minimum. But at the same time, groove noise has to be removed. The key is striking the right balance between cleaning and killing the sound.

Some of the vinyl records I’ve cleaned (digitally restored) actually sound better than their streamed counterparts, even when the streaming version has been transferred from the master tape. Both are digital but somehow the one sourced from vinyl may sound better. This could be due to digital processing or the fact that streamed files pass through thousands of chips, transmission lines, and other factors that may degrade the sound.

 

[hopkins]

What are professionals using when they re-issue material that is only available on LP (meaning the master tapes are lost or unusable)?

Mosaic Records, for example, specializes in re-issues and often have to use LPs. They work with Swan Studios in NYC. Someone should interview them...

Edit: someone did (though I believe not the engineer working with Mosaic). Here's a interesting video about tape digitalization. It mentions the software used.

 

[mtemur]

Thanks, @hopkins, for sharing that video. From what I can see, the signal chain in the video is as follows:

- Mytek 8x192 AD/DA (connected to computer via usb cable)
- Merging Technologies Pyramix software (audio editor and mastering suite)
- Steinberg WaveLab software (audio editor and mastering suite)
- Cube-Tec denoise plug-in (opened inside of Pyramix or WaveLab)

In my opinion, this workflow is focused on tape transfer and is not the same as transferring vinyl, at least in terms of processes and software. Additionally, she significantly degrades the tape’s quality. All she needs to do is use the best heads and head amplifier for the Studer and connect it directly to the highest-quality AD converter or digital recorder available. Instead, she routes everything through a patch bay and uses TRS converters on each XLR plug.

In my opinion, the best mastering engineer for transferring and restoring vinyl is Michael Graves at Osiris Mastering Studio

That said, even he is not particularly skilled at cleaning or caring for vinyl or using high-end playback equipment -at least he wasn't when I last checked his videos and workflow. The main issue with most professionals in this field is that they lack knowledge of vinyl playback and high-end audio. They operate under the illusion that everything can be fixed in post-processing. Of course, there are audiophile mastering engineers like Bernie Grundman, Bob Ludwig, and Kevin Gray, but they specialize in mastering rather than vinyl restoration.