Tripoint troy signature grounding device

[TBG]

The obvious alternatives are to buy two Emperors, try different component combinations to seek the best, or just ignore the issue.

 

[Jazzhead]

Because my Tidal Sunrays are gone I am able to insert two Tripoint signatures in my Kondo/Genesis set up. My experiences so far are that individual components benefit most if they are connected to just one binding post (sorry Lloyd). This was one of the reasons I ordered the Tripoint emperor with eight binding posts. According to Miquel the emperor beats even a combination of more than two Troy signatures.

Hi , in your twin Troy Sig set up how many Thor SE Grounding cables are you employing . Is the first upgrade to the bigger grounding cable the best bang for buck , or is the effect cumulative on adding further Thor ground cables ? Look forward with interest to hearing your impressions on the E !

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi , in your twin Troy Sig set up how many Thor SE Grounding cables are you employing . Is the first upgrade to the bigger grounding cable the best bang for buck , or is the effect cumulative on adding further Thor ground cables ? Look forward with interest to hearing your impressions on the E !

Hello Jazzhead, I am still using one Thor se cable albeit one of earliest ones made by Miguel. My cable is black while Tripoints current Thor se cables are more eye catching and white. With the emperor two current Thor se cables will be delivered. So cannot comment on the effects of adding more Thor se grounding cables in my systems. However I happened to speak with Miguel today and his experience of adding these grounding cables. He described the effects of connecting the power supply of his turntable to the Thor se and afterwards connecting a Thor se to his tonearm as well. He was flabbergasted about the improvement. Miguel believes that removing the noise at the source (turntable, cd-combo's) is crucial if the audio set up becomes more transparent, eg by connecting the preamp to the emperor through a Thor se. For your info: Miguel is using the emperor with four Thor se grounding cables at the moment and his (sincere) enthusiasm illustrates that he has never heard his system at such a high level before.

 

[TBG]

Jazzhead, the Thor PC option, I think, must be decided when you order and is quite expensive. At Miguel's strong recommendation, I bought the bullet. The Troy SEs are an incredible improvement and I have two more on order.

In my early review of the original Troy, I tried many other cheaper grounding cables but none were in the league of the Tripoint Silvers. Now their Troy SEs make the Silver sound second rate.

All of this causes me to say I am merely validating all that Miguel has said.

I should further note that I am flying down to listen to the Emperor sometime around the end of the year and once Miguel can assure me that he has a Troy Signature to which I can compare the Emperor.

 

[LL21]

Jazzhead, the Thor PC option, I think, must be decided when you order and is quite expensive. At Miguel's strong recommendation, I bought the bullet. The Troy SEs are an incredible improvement and I have two more on order.

In my early review of the original Troy, I tried many other cheaper grounding cables but none were in the league of the Tripoint Silvers. Now their Troy SEs make the Silver sound second rate.

All of this causes me to say I am merely validating all that Miguel has said.

I should further note that I am flying down to listen to the Emperor sometime around the end of the year and once Miguel can assure me that he has a Troy Signature to which I can compare the Emperor.

definitely want to read your report on that comparison!

 

[spiritofmusic]

DRC, the joy/madness continues for those after uber grounding solutions. May I ask how much the Dalby Pearl, Celestial and Reuben Reference ground cables cost? I mean the base level Dalby ground cable is £5k/$8k. Do you feel these will be a step beyond Troy's own top Thor cables?
I'm waiting for the time when, prob on AE, a rich and brave soul kits out his system w/TWO Emperors (so individual components don't share ground posts), TWO Emperor AC conditioners to power up to a dozen components w/no compromise, and a slew of 10-20 Troy Thor or top Dalby earth cables.
I don't doubt the effects will be staggering, and the price of this uber grounding rig will prob equate to the cost of the core components themselves combined. I wonder when the law of diminishing returns applies to grounding?
I certainly can't bleat about this, my cables/power/grounding/isolation bill equates to the same cash I've spent on my core component rig of tt/cdp/amps/spkrs.

 

[Geardaddy]

Geardaddy, I'll pick up your toys and put them calmly back in your pram. I have no desire to get on to the AE guys, arguing on this forum is enough for me, thanks. Maybe you can tell me what comments you object to. I never said Troy isn't different from Entreq, I said my contention is they have similarities, both approximating to an uber version of the ground post in 20' of soil model. I wouldn't be surprised if Troy has more expensive materials/unobtanium inside it, but it seems logical that they are designed along similar principles. How is this an attack on Troy?
And, btw, if you don't get it already, Tripoint and Entreq are BOTH benefitting from these combative comments. It's all publicity - there's no such thing as bad publicity.
Now, I'm going to take a nap in the chicken coop. Ciao...

Its just for the sake of information. I will do it....

 

[Geardaddy]

Guys, I think we should be looking for common ground rather than debate which system is better or the best. I use the Tripoint Signature myself and I am very happy with it. I have never heard the Entreq which doesn't mean this system is flawed in any way nor necessarily inferior to Tripoint. Remember, hifi systems are complex so what's not to say that Entreq may work better in one system and the Tripoint in another? It reminds me of people trying to argue whether a Ferrari is better or a Porsche. This argument is truly endless and rather pointless as each generation of new product outdoes the previous generation of the other... and you gotta compare straight line performance or lap time around the track or in the wet vs dry Silverstone vs Monaco etc...Musical and system performance is even harder to measure objectively. The key however is in recognizing that perhaps there is real merit in what both Entreq and Tripoint are doing for high end audio. I personally applaud both brands without reservations nor judgement.

I disagree. There should be active trash talking. I am going to ask the Universe (or myself) to send me an Emporer with a full loom of Thor SE grounding cables....

 

[Geardaddy]

Hi Spiritofmusic,

Total agree with you! I am taking a system wide approach - I have earthing sorted out for now with my Tripoint signature. Next, I plan to evaluate various Troy and Dalby Earthing cables to see if these truly do make a significant difference in my system and worth the money. I also plan to try some VertexAQ products to see if their Grounding components will work well in conjunction with my Tripoint system with additional benefits. I also have a VertexAQ Hirez Taga on order as well which will get passive filtration via my Lessloss Firewall- Hope to have this in place by Christmas.

Finally, I would like to compare Stillpoints isolation philosophy vs VertexAQs Leading Edge Platform which drains vibrations/noise into the platform labyrinth as opposed to isolating.

Honestly, I don't really care what I use. If it improves my system substantially, I am game. Lets hope we have succeeded in taking the first steps towards world peace!!!

I like your approach. I know everyone on the AE forums is ranting about the Pranawire Linebacker stuff. Have you heard it? I use a device that has some similarities (Mosaic Audio Suspension bridge) and have been pleased with the results. The Vertex platforms look like an amagamum of approaches. I use mechanical grounding of my equipment (ala Starsound Sistrum racks) and have a dedicated room with grounded walls, etc. The Troy will my final addition. In talking with both Miguel and Robert at Starsound, they suggested grounding the actual racks rather than the equipment chassis to provide an enhanced sink or grounding plane. Anyone else trying this?

 

[Geardaddy]

Verbiage from a 2012 review. Now that better measurement tools are out there, we can start to demonstrate an actual effect of all our voodoo tweaks. For the record, I also use the Kemp Electroniks products. I am an unabashed tweaker. It is ironically the true cutting edge in audio although it has its dangers....

"There would be more. As we still had the Blue Horizon Noise Analyser on hand, we could not resists to conduct an actual measurement. This analyzer makes that pretty easy. Just plug its captive power cord into any wall outlet, listen to the noise emitted through the little speaker and read the display. In our case the latter showed a fat 600 out of an abysmal 999 to point at a pretty noisy mains. As reported in our review of the Noise Analyser <http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bluehorizon/1.html>, for some inexplicable reason we also have a radio station freeloading on our mains spur which is perfectly audible over the Analyser’s speaker. If the Linebacker really worked as advertised, we should be able to get a lower reading. With our homebrew adapter cable we connected the Analyser to the Linebacker’s female Oyaide. And guess what? The reading dropped to a respectable 160, meaning a lot of HF noise had gotten filtered out for the remaining noise to measure safely within the ‘okay’ green zone. This substantiated a good deal of the Linebacker’s audible improvement. What remained was the radio reception. Was this then already the conclusion?"

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/prana/2.html

 

[Barry2013]

Verbiage from a 2012 review. Now that better measurement tools are out there, we can start to demonstrate an actual effect of all our voodoo tweaks. For the record, I also use the Kemp Electroniks products. I am an unabashed tweaker. It is ironically the true cutting edge in audio although it has its dangers....

"There would be more. As we still had the Blue Horizon Noise Analyser on hand, we could not resists to conduct an actual measurement. This analyzer makes that pretty easy. Just plug its captive power cord into any wall outlet, listen to the noise emitted through the little speaker and read the display. In our case the latter showed a fat 600 out of an abysmal 999 to point at a pretty noisy mains. As reported in our review of the Noise Analyser <http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bluehorizon/1.html>, for some inexplicable reason we also have a radio station freeloading on our mains spur which is perfectly audible over the Analyser’s speaker. If the Linebacker really worked as advertised, we should be able to get a lower reading. With our homebrew adapter cable we connected the Analyser to the Linebacker’s female Oyaide. And guess what? The reading dropped to a respectable 160, meaning a lot of HF noise had gotten filtered out for the remaining noise to measure safely within the ‘okay’ green zone. This substantiated a good deal of the Linebacker’s audible improvement. What remained was the radio reception. Was this then already the conclusion?"

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/prana/2.html

Hi there.
Would be interested to know which Kemp products you use and how well they have worked.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Geardaddy, Entreq recommend creating a Faraday Cage effect by grounding one's rack. No idea if anyone has done it. What is the rationale behind the idea from Miguel's POV?

 

[TBG]

Geardaddy, I have been through much of the same terrain as what you describe. I even have a Kemp Electronics Power Source ac conditioner for US blades, which while impressive technically, does little to improve my sound. It is available cheap. I have tried capacitors on the circuits in my room and even those far away from my listening room. All of these did wonders at reducing the noise on the checker unit but totally ruined my sound. I have had perhaps twenty ac devices, including the Pranawire predecessor to the Linebacker. The clear best I've heard is the High Fidelity Cables Waveguide power center in its latest form. This uses rare earth magnets with great flux to remote noise on the line.

But the real question here is not ac noise but rather noise on the earth grounds. My experience there started simply enough with having only one component with an ac ground to my house ground. I had a H-Cat P12R preamp that hated any more than one grounded unit. I tried cheaters to remove the other grounds with little success. One day I was complaining about how crappy most cheater to remove the ac ground, when Elliott of Synergistic Research said that zapping a simple Home Depot $.79 cheater on the Tesla coil yielded incredible results. I told him I wanted seven of them. He was absolutely right. My sound with the H-Cat leaped. Unfortunately, other line stages did not show the same benefits and as I moved to increasingly shielded and vibration controlled power cords, their weight made using cheaters quite difficult. I tried one with the Goebel power cord and it just fell out of the wall! I could have spent the time using cords to hold it in but didn't bother.

Then several years ago I got a Tripoint Troy for review. At the time I was fighting some hum with my phono stage and had an inexpensive Granite Audio grounding unit. I thought how could a ground unit be worth what the Troy cost. The Granite did nothing for me, but wow the Troy was of massive benefit. I could not afford it at the time, but later bought the Troy Signature. The Troy Signature just makes the speaker wall my window to realism.

I recently thought to use the Signature as I had heard the Entreq used namely connecting it to my stainless steel Stillpoints Rack. I heard some benefit and have kept it. I am presently using Tripoint Silver ground cables with one exception. I have one Troy SE grounding cables to one of my BMC M2 amps. I remember being shocked at what that cable did when it replaced one of my Silver grounds. Soon I will get two of the new Troy SEs and have to return the original to be undated. Miguel assures me that I will ultimately want to replace all of the Silvers. Yes, Spirit, this grounding stuff is replacing my component costs in audio.

Of course, the ultimate questions are the Emperor and the Emperor ac unit. I very much doubt ever going to the ac unit.

 

[DRC]

DRC, the joy/madness continues for those after uber grounding solutions. May I ask how much the Dalby Pearl, Celestial and Reuben Reference ground cables cost? I mean the base level Dalby ground cable is £5k/$8k. Do you feel these will be a step beyond Troy's own top Thor cables?
I'm waiting for the time when, prob on AE, a rich and brave soul kits out his system w/TWO Emperors (so individual components don't share ground posts), TWO Emperor AC conditioners to power up to a dozen components w/no compromise, and a slew of 10-20 Troy Thor or top Dalby earth cables.
I don't doubt the effects will be staggering, and the price of this uber grounding rig will prob equate to the cost of the core components themselves combined. I wonder when the law of diminishing returns applies to grounding?
I certainly can't bleat about this, my cables/power/grounding/isolation bill equates to the same cash I've spent on my core component rig of tt/cdp/amps/spkrs.

Hi Spirit,

I believe the basic Pearl is at around £2000 and the Celestial is £6000 whilst the Reuben is around £12000. I decided to draw the line at the Celestial as there is zero chance of me spending £12000 on an earthing cable...honestly even the Celestial is going to be a long shot but objectively, I am curious to at least test it. I plan to test the Dalby earthing cables vs the Thor/ Thor SE. Unfortunately, I will be out of town for the next 2 weeks so I can only attempt this project closer to Christmas time. I don't have the desire to upgrade to the Emperor- max, I may consider getting a second Troy Signature. We are involved in a pretty crazy hobby but for me, I feel pretty close to the end of my quest...

 

[DRC]

I disagree. There should be active trash talking. I am going to ask the Universe (or myself) to send me an Emporer with a full loom of Thor SE grounding cables....

Geardaddy, perhaps you just like chaos...I just prefer order...

 

[DRC]

I like your approach. I know everyone on the AE forums is ranting about the Pranawire Linebacker stuff. Have you heard it? I use a device that has some similarities (Mosaic Audio Suspension bridge) and have been pleased with the results. The Vertex platforms look like an amagamum of approaches. I use mechanical grounding of my equipment (ala Starsound Sistrum racks) and have a dedicated room with grounded walls, etc. The Troy will my final addition. In talking with both Miguel and Robert at Starsound, they suggested grounding the actual racks rather than the equipment chassis to provide an enhanced sink or grounding plane. Anyone else trying this?

I haven't yet but will try to audition the full arsenal of AE gear this Christmas and report back. Once I have auditioned all the earthing cables, I will assess getting a second Troy Sig. I too have heard that grounding the racks help so I plan to experiment on that too- but I suspect the impact of grounding the racks may be limited since all of the primary components are already themselves grounded?!

 

[TBG]

DRC, I think that the effect on metal racks is the result of them not surrounding anything. I think the best faraday cage would be a half inch thick totally enclosed box with no holes. That might give us 90 db signal to noise. Of course, it would also be useless.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gosh, grounding the rack, what a concept. As if grounding components wasn't enough of a journey. I wouldn't be surprised if this then leads to grounding the room, and then the ultimate - grounding the listener LOL!!! Ironic, since signing the cheques for the astronomic prices of uber grounding can hardly be call a "grounded" behaviour pattern, more ultra OCD!!!
Just when I thought I might be able to step off the grounding merry-go-'round, I've done a little experimenting and separated the grounds to my true mono Audion preamps, keeping the ground leads on separate posts on the ground box, as opposed to combining them as I was doing. Well, an amazing impvt - greater separation in the soundstage, and less euphonic warmth. Don't find the same quantum impvt re whether I separate or combine grounding leads on single ground posts on my SETs, or even cdp and phono stage. But in my setup, the mono preamps seem v.sensitive to being grounded separately. The mysteries of grounding continue.

 

[spiritofmusic]

DRC, do you predict there will be a major difference btwn top Dalby ground leads like the Celestial and Reuben, and the Troy Thor? Miguel confidently claims Thor slays all before it.

 

[Geardaddy]

Hi there.
Would be interested to know which Kemp products you use and how well they have worked.

Barry, I use both the QA and SR plugs. I bought them in 2008, and at that time my system was shoehorned into a small, square bedroom with different speakers, pre-amp, amps, wire, and source and without my current PC. That being said, I noticed a greater sense of space and ambient detail and a little warmth. I liked it. I still use them but have not tried turning them on and off. You can find them used from time to time on Audiogon, etc.