AQ Jitterbug Measurements
- Thread starter dallasjustice
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No, I have not been paying attention to what Swenson says about measurements. I only know that measurements by Swenson were promised months ago by Alex of Uptone.
Yes, Swenson has laid out a verbal engineering case for what he was intending to do. He verbally has alluded to measurements justifying that. I am not saying he is a snake oil salesman. But, why have his measurements not been shared with the rest of us? Are you saying the story now is the effects of Regen are too difficult to measure? If so, uh, oh.
Again, I bought one. Frankly, I am not hearing the overwhelming degree of improvement others have claimed, although I subjectively heard enough of a positive one with my DAC, a small but noticeable one, to keep the device. Alex would have taken it back, as he and I agreed, but I decided it was worth $175.
There are plenty of devices and tweaks out there claiming this and that, and there are plenty of audiophiles who offer ga ga testimonials for them. Most of them offer no engineering basis whatsoever, and some are quickly forgotten after the initial surge. I bought on the expectation that Uptone, Alex and Swenson were different, in that they provided a seemingly cogent explanation and were going to offer measured proof, unlike all the other snake oil guys. I am still patiently waiting to see that.
A designer's intent may or may not be fully realized in a final working product. Measurements would help me and others feel totally confident that Swenson and Uptone are really and truly the good guys I am trusting they seem to want to be. But, as Ronald Reagan said, "trust, but verify".
And, frankly, Swenson talks a very good game, a lot of which seems superficially to make sense, though not always. But, I do get impatient with an engineer who talks a lot and does not provide measurements, especially after he verbally alludes to them. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Quite frankly I do not understand the logic of your post
The REGEN works, a small but "noticeable" difference. You spent $175, not an insignificant sum, that gets you 3.5 Jitterbugs, and you are choosing to keep it. If it did not, you could have gotten your cash back, no questions asked.
So you want to see pretty graphs and nice numbers to corroborate what your ears are telling you. You view UpTone with slight suspicion because vaguely promised measurements have not shown up. I just don't get it.
So you hear better sound, but you want that backed up with numbers.
DO YOU NOT TRUST YOUR EARS? It seems many here do not, and I intend to start a thread on this subject.
John Swenson has given away more software, free advice, and technical explanations in the past 5 years than most in this industry have
in a lifetime. That is a fact. Alex ran a successful electronics company that made great preamps for a decade plus. He is not looking for a fast
buck.
Let me end this post by saying my antenna is on super high alert for all the nonsense in this industry, and I can tell you for a fact I have ruffled a lot
feathers for questioning many products and the pseudo scientific marketing that is used to sell these products. I have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way for questioning the arbitrary pricing of many high end audio products, so I am not posting the above as a neophyte who laps up what ever these companies spoon feeds us.
Nope, nothing claimed as a miracle at all: it has all to do with the noise produced by the USB receiver PHY when a signal of lowered integrity reaches the DAC.
Any digital circuit has inherent noise. This affects the D/A process and hence SQ.
You state that as certainty but there is no data to back that in high quality systems. Here is what my DAC outputs when driven over USB using a USB to S/PDIF bridge:
Look at that noise floor and explain what about that is coming from USB bus and why I should care even if it does.
Any grain of sand on the road in theory can reach your body in the car seat. That theoretical impact has no impact in reality because of multiple layers of isolation between that grain of sand, and our ability to detect such unevenness in the road. Would you suggest we start to vacuum the roads as to get rid of every grain of sand and that would result in more comfortable rides?
OK. Let me repeat. Swenson alluded to measured differences. Alex promised Swenson's measurements. I think I have a right to expect fulfillment of the promise, whether I trust my ears, Swenson's ears, your ears or anyone else's. It is just about them fulfilling their promise, and differentiating themselves from the charlatans. I am rooting for them with all my might.
Hey, I am not going to justify my expenditure of $175 to you. I have spent more for lesser improvements on occasion. If it makes no sense to you, tough. It is my decision, not yours.
No, I do not trust my ears completely. My ears are intimately tied to my feeble brain, and I know that my ears can therefore be fooled or biased, as can many people's. I do not trust measurements completely, either. Nor, do I trust Swenson completely, though I gave him the benefit of any doubt in making this purchase. That in spite of the lack of the more complete information that would have been desirable and which was promised. But, I am indeed very interested and curious to see how measurements might correlate with what I heard.
Forgive me if I am not yet in total awe of Swenson and everything he says or designs. I have read quite a lot of his writings, and, unlike you and some others, I am just not as completely convinced. That is true no matter how much software, technical advice, etc. he may have given away. I still see a bit too much bluster and too little hard technical proof in his prose. But, that might change. Anyway, that is my opinion, to which I am fully entitled.
I am just curious. how does that work? If I heard something that is either not confirmed by measurement or expressly excluded by measurement, just how do I manage to not hear it any more?
welcome back Greg!
I have a Regen, another on order, and 4 Jitterbugs.
measurements? not of any value to me. but if that is important to you, knock yourself out.
so far not liked what the Jitterbugs have done. but the Regen was a nice step up. but as my server is still 'fluid' and not yet optimal all my conclusions are provisional anyway.
Thanks Mike. I am not sure I'm back. Nor am I interested paticularly in that device. It does beg the question don't you think? Does the placebo effect disappear once the patient is informed he has been taking a sugar pill?
Greg,
Nice to read from you again. Particularly as I just got bad news - the AQ Jitterbug is completely sold out at our distributor and I just arrived home empty hands! No miracles for me during the next weeks!
Woah. Who asked you to justify anything? Who said anything about about being "in awe" of anyone? All I said is that Swensen has donated an enormous amount of his time to the computer audio community.
You don't trust your ears? Too bad for you. Not a problem I have.
It is obvious you NEED to see the measurements because you think audio is straight science. You are not alone. This is not an attack. There are plenty others here in your camp.
In the end you are keeping the product, so your subjective perceptions, despite being under assault by your objective brain waves.
This is really strange Greg. I was looking through some old posts and ran into one of yours and thought about sending you a message and see how you are doing! Great proof that telepathy works and is here now.
It is pretty simple for me but it takes discipline. I can "unimagine" small audio improvements, real or not, on demand! Try it. It didn't take much effort for me to be able to do that.
Let's dial down the tone guys.
There is a reality show called Pawn Stars. People bring things in and the owner usually calls for an expert to authenticate and give the market value. Often the person selling the item objects with, "don't you trust me when I say this is real?" His answer is, "it is not that I don't trust you. I don't trust anyone!" Same here. It is not that we don't trust our ears. We don't trust anyone's ears with impunity when differences get small.
My experience comes from both testing myself and literally hundreds of other people and seeing how they get the outcome wrong. I have not found one person who I consider remotely reliable with small differences.
We like to see measurements because they improve confidence in our listening assessment. And to prompt additional testing. You can decide how fast your car is going by sticking a wet thumb outside or look at your speedometer.
Let's dial down the tone guys.
There is a reality show called Pawn Stars. People bring things in and the owner usually calls for an expert to authenticate and give the market value. Often the person selling the item objects with, "don't you trust me when I say this is real?" His answer is, "it is not that I don't trust you. I don't trust anyone!" Same here. It is not that we don't trust our ears. We don't trust anyone's ears with impunity when differences get small.
My experience comes from both testing myself and literally hundreds of other people and seeing how they get the outcome wrong. I have not found one person who I consider remotely reliable with small differences.
We like to see measurements because they improve confidence in our listening assessment. And to prompt additional testing. You can decide how fast your car is going by sticking a wet thumb outside or look at your speedometer.
Your Pawn Stars comparison is miles off...Authenticating an inanimate object, that can easily be counterfeited, is not in the same universe, not in the same galaxy as something ethereal as sonics.
Testing how fast a car can go against the manufacturers specs is again, about hard numbers. It is not audio. There is no art involved.
??? That was not the purpose of that reference. I mentioned it to say that it is incorrect that we don't trust "OUR" ears. We don't trust "anyone's" ears. Emotions must run high to not have seen that simple angle.
There is no art involved in whether something makes or does not make an audible difference either. And cars have "feel" as does "speed."
"There is no art involved in whether something makes or does not make an audible difference either. "
Then there is ZERO common ground you have with most of the audiophile community. And I DO NOT mean the ones on the outer edge with magic beads, moon rocks,and resonators blessed by shamans.
"We don't trust "anyone's" ears."
Sorry, preposterous. I have many close friends whose ears I trust implicitly who hear things just as I do, not 100%, but damn close. Musicians trust the ears of certain recording and mastering engineers, producers, and even other musicians. I feel sorry for you that you have no ears you trust. I can't imagine living in constant suspicions over basic things in the hobby.
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