Air Force Zero PRICE

[NorthStar]

One aspect of the audio market vs the car market is the dealer mark up. Car dealers are lucky to make 10%, most audio dealers are making 40%+.

If you deal Bugatti, Ferrari and Lamborghini...it's ok.

 

[JackD201]

Jack, maybe you are missing my point..
This particular turntable is going to be priced at a cost that equates to something that is far far more complex and costly to design and bring to market..while there is nothing wrong in that, i don’t think that it equates to the same value proposition. While that may be irrelevant to many, I still think that to try and equate the two items in this manner is not correct or accurate...maybe that’s just me?
Do I care, heck no, like I said before, if Nishikawa-San can make as many of these that he so chooses and sell them to his Far East clientele at any price he so deems, well then more power to him.

My point is simply that these development costs are spread out per unit built and sold. That also addresses Jeff's reply. In auto land 5000 units is considered a failure. In audio land, that is a miracle. Mark-up percentage always decreases with volume. The companies are not trying to keep prices low out of the goodness of their hearts, they are trying to optimize turnover and cashflow, thus sustainable profit. Even in car land we see cases where cars are priced ABOVE sticker if there is particularly strong demand for cars of limited availability.

I also agree with Micro about masterpieces. Only time will tell if any of these halo products will actually be appreciated and maybe later appreciate in value. If we could predict what would become "masterpieces" in time, boy, we could all afford stuff like these. It is also IMO an irrational market where just a handful of competing buyers made a Basquiat more expensive than a Van Gogh or Wu Tang Clan more expensive than the White Album owned by Ringo (or was it George?). What does remain fairly constant is that the limitations in supply are a driving factor of price not just at launch but also in the secondary or tertiary markets. It is also not limited to high ticket items. Ask anybody looking for a 16ohm original LS3/5a in mint condition or NOS tubes that could have been had for cents half a century ago.

I'm not saying I like it, I'm just saying how it is. I just don't see it as being harmful to me or anybody else for as long as there is stuff in my price bracket that can satisfy me. It's not like some super wheat or super rice that somehow decimates crops and can only be afforded by the 1%. The first thing I wager would happen is the 1% getting lynched. There simply are no humanitarian consequences. Besides, many of the features tend to eventually trickle down by design or say when patents lapse. Case in point is the matrix structures by B&W.

I also take the same attitude towards first or business class passengers who pay double or triple of coach. They get a bit more comfort, some so-so wine, meals that are usually just edible, get out of the plane and get their baggage early but hey, they subsidize my coach ticket. More power to ya while I enjoy the sandwich I made at home. I make good sandwiches

 

[Lagonda]

And don’t forget bragging rights of having the best/most expensive in the world. Until someone else or more likely TechDas themselves ups the ante/price. And your state of the art piece becomes last years model !

 

[astrotoy]

One aspect of the audio market vs the car market is the dealer mark up. Car dealers are lucky to make 10%, most audio dealers are making 40%+.

True, although most car dealers make much of their money on service and repairs.

 

[JackD201]

And don’t forget bragging rights of having the best/most expensive in the world. Until someone else or more likely TechDas themselves ups the ante/price. And your state of the art piece becomes last years model !

I cann say with all honesty that it didn't bother me I already had my AF1P. Jim wanted it and bought it. I've been happy with my original AF1 since then. It's still the same table. Profit went to more carts and LPs.

 

[jeff1225]

True, although most car dealers make much of their money on service and repairs.

Agreed. The business models are not congruent.

 

[Tango]

Just saw a leaked photo of AF0. It is a massive angry Hulk AF3 with the motor revealed before. The platter seems thicker than AS with different layers of materials. The whole platter, plinth, motor stand on a huge somewhat integrated three inches thick platform. The whole thing should be heavier than the AS if it is crafted out of billet. Super heavy mass seems to be the design philosophy. Hope they dont put fuzzy electronics into the design.

Tang

 

[Steve Williams]

FWIW, one of them (if not the first one of them) has been sold to a member of WBF

 

[JackD201]

Maybe two Stevie

 

[jjaudio]

Wow.

Mathew

 

[pcosta]

We want pictures!

 

[audioquattr]

We want pictures!

yeh please, a leaked photo is also fine

 

[Ron Resnick]

Just saw a leaked photo of AF0. It is a massive angry Hulk AF3 with the motor revealed before. The platter seems thicker than AS with different layers of materials. The whole platter, plinth, motor stand on a huge somewhat integrated three inches thick platform. The whole thing should be heavier than the AS if it is crafted out of billet. Super heavy mass seems to be the design philosophy. Hope they dont put fuzzy electronics into the design.

Tang

It is very interesting that some of David’s design philosophy seems to have seeped into the thinking about the Air Force Zero.

 

[PeterA]

It is very interesting that some of David’s design philosophy seems to have seeped into the thinking about the Air Force Zero.

I think David actually discussed his ideas with TechDAS for both the AF3 and AF0, neither of which has suspension.

 

[Tango]

We want pictures!

 

[pcosta]

Holy S%*&!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Is it just me, or does that look like three designers were involved, none of whom talked to the others.

I'm sorry, but visually, that's a miss
IMHO, YMMV, YYY (Yada Yada Yada).

 

[ddk]

Is it just me, or does that look like three designers were involved, none of whom talked to the others.

I'm sorry, but visually, that's a miss
IMHO, YMMV, YYY (Yada Yada Yada).

That’s just a working prototype not the final product.
david

 

[spiritofmusic]

Even the prototype fails LOL.

 

[microstrip]

Is it just me, or does that look like three designers were involved, none of whom talked to the others.

I'm sorry, but visually, that's a miss
IMHO, YMMV, YYY (Yada Yada Yada).

You can place your order, they will probably add a fourth designer to get a visual aspect that will please you.