SAT XD-1 Turntable Debut at The Audio Salon

[ddk]

Dear David,

Like Tim, it is a snooty-snog because we know you are referring to Michael, but not taking responsibility for saying so explicitly.

What is the particular demo (time and place) to which you are referring at which Michael aggressively pushed Maier Shadi's products?

I'm sorry you see it this way, to me it was a straight forward question.

david

 

[tima]

If a reviewer is paid travel expenses and compensation to function as the MC or DJ at an audio dealer's demo of new products, and the reviewer subsequently raves about the products (I certainly raved about the sound I heard at Maier's first demo of Wilson WAMM + Air Force Zero) I personally see no ethical issue or conflict of interest provided (i) the compensation paid is reasonable and (ii) the reviewer's opinion is honest and true. Explicit disclosure of the fact of compensation and from whom would be very cleansing.

 

[Ron Resnick]

To make a guest appearance for a demo isn't the issue my problem is with a compensated reviewer aggressively pushing wares of a particular dealer at the same time .

david

I just spoke on the telephone with David who assured me that he was not in any way referring in this post implicitly to Michael Fremer or to Michael's participation as DJ for Maier's demo or to Maier's product lines. This is my fault.

I read Tima's Post #30, which to me referred to Post #29 which included: "Isn't it Fremer demonstrating this one as well, . . ."

Tima in Post #30, immediately thereafter, writes: "Which makes me wonder what people think about an audio reviewer receiving compensation for demonstrating a product. Is that okay?"

I take responsibility for mistakenly assuming that Tima in Post #30 was referring to "Fremer demonstrating" in Post #29.

When David later quoted Tima's Post #30 I made the mistake of assuming that David, too, was referring implicitly to Michael and to Michael participating as DJ in Maier's demo.

So my accusation of snooty-snogging by David was mistaken. I apologize to David for posting that I believed he was writing implicitly something he was reluctant to write explicitly, for suggesting that David was being untruthful about not really meaning Michael, and for assuming that these posts had anything to with Michael or Maier's demo or Maier's product lines.

 

[Bodhi]

Well said Ron. Running an audio forum is an onerous task, and anyone can make an innocent mistake. What this thread now needs is a 'clean up on Isle 9' & hopefully back to normal viewing..

 

[spiritofmusic]

I just spoke on the telephone with David who assured me that he was not in any way referring in this post implicitly to Michael Fremer or to Michael's participation as DJ for Maier's demo or to Maier's product lines. This is my fault.

I read Tima's Post #30, which to me referred to Post #29 which included: "Isn't it Fremer demonstrating this one as well, . . ."

Tima in Post #30, immediately thereafter, writes: "Which makes me wonder what people think about an audio reviewer receiving compensation for demonstrating a product. Is that okay?"

I take responsibility for mistakenly asuming that Tima in Post #30 was referring to "Fremer demonstrating" in Post #29.

When David later quoted Tima's Post #30 I made the mistake of assuming that David, too, was referring implicitly to Michael and to Michael participating as DJ in Maier's demo.

So my accusation of snooty-snogging by David was mistaken. I apologize to David for posting that I believed he was writing implicitly something he was reluctant to write explicitly, for suggesting that David was being untruthful about not really meaning Michael, and for assuming that these posts had anything to with Michael or Maier's demo or Maier's product lines.

Ron, in all the heated discussion, accuations back and forth, casting aspersions of payola, misheard conversations, and all-round intake of collective breath and cynicism of price gouging, there's only one thing I'm obsessed about...

WTF is "snooty snogging"?
And is it illegal in some states in the US, in public swimming pools, and thruout the Mid East?

 

[bonzo75]

Ron, in all the heated discussion, accuations back and forth, casting aspersions of payola, misheard conversations, and all-round intake of collective breath and cynicism of price gouging, there's only one thing I'm obsessed about...

WTF is "snooty snogging"?
And is it illegal in some states in the US, in public swimming pools, and thruout the Mid East?

Like with everything in the US, it is a term invented by the founding fathers in the constitution or it is not

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, those chaps had something a tad more important to worry about than this topic.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am very excited to return on Saturday to The Audio Salon with a full team and to see if I find the sound as transcendently amazing as I found it during the Air Force Zero demo.

 

[ddk]

I just spoke on the telephone with David who assured me that he was not in any way referring in this post implicitly to Michael Fremer or to Michael's participation as DJ for Maier's demo or to Maier's product lines. This is my fault.

I read Tima's Post #30, which to me referred to Post #29 which included: "Isn't it Fremer demonstrating this one as well, . . ."

Tima in Post #30, immediately thereafter, writes: "Which makes me wonder what people think about an audio reviewer receiving compensation for demonstrating a product. Is that okay?"

I take responsibility for mistakenly assuming that Tima in Post #30 was referring to "Fremer demonstrating" in Post #29.

When David later quoted Tima's Post #30 I made the mistake of assuming that David, too, was referring implicitly to Michael and to Michael participating as DJ in Maier's demo.

So my accusation of snooty-snogging by David was mistaken. I apologize to David for posting that I believed he was writing implicitly something he was reluctant to write explicitly, for suggesting that David was being untruthful about not really meaning Michael, and for assuming that these posts had anything to with Michael or Maier's demo or Maier's product lines.

Thank you Ron, appreciate the correction.
david

 

[Bodhi]

Ron, in all the heated discussion, accuations back and forth, casting aspersions of payola, misheard conversations, and all-round intake of collective breath and cynicism of price gouging, there's only one thing I'm obsessed about...

WTF is "snooty snogging"?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I am very excited to return on Saturday to The Audio Salon with a full team and to see if I find the sound as transcendently amazing as I found it during the Air Force Zero demo.

If you do Ron, then the SAT tt is by definition a veritable bargain, getting $400k sound for 50% of that pricetag.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Bodhi, that's snooty/snotty.
Even we Brits former governors of the US get that.
But snooty snogging?
I'd like to ask what am I missing here, but not sure I want to know.

 

[Tango]

If you do Ron, then the SAT tt is by definition a veritable bargain, getting $400k sound for 50% of that pricetag.

And if there were such an event but with the Taiko Tanna NVS set up instead, one could find a veritable bargain getting $400k sound for 15% of that pricetag..so on and so on.

 

[bonzo75]

And if there were such an event but with the Taiko Tanna NVS set up instead, one could find a veritable bargain getting $400k sound for 15% of that pricetag..so on and so on.

He was being sarcastic tang

 

[spiritofmusic]

Tang, it's SAT's Marc Gomez who is making noises that his tt is comprable/better than the best tts out there.

That's a bold claim w similarly priced offerings incl AF1P, AS2000, and the current big target AF0.

Then again, if you're gonna sell tonearms at $50k and a tt package at $200k to incl said arm, what are you gonna say instead in yr promotional material?

All I know is that any comments on the SAT tt launch will be HEAVILLY caveated since there is no side by side comparison w these other big hitters.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Bodhi, that's snooty/snotty.
Even we Brits former governors of the US get that.
But snooty snogging?
I'd like to ask what am I missing here, but not sure I want to know.

Marc, its when you snog someone then tell them they just were not good enough at it... even we humble Aussies as former lowly convicted scum evicted from the almighty Blighty know that

 

[spiritofmusic]

Like going to visit an audiophile and telling them their sound doesn't cut it? Reprehensible behaviour.

 

[tima]

I just spoke on the telephone with David who assured me that he was not in any way referring in this post implicitly to Michael Fremer or to Michael's participation as DJ for Maier's demo or to Maier's product lines. This is my fault.

I read Tima's Post #30, which to me referred to Post #29 which included: "Isn't it Fremer demonstrating this one as well, . . ."

Tima in Post #30, immediately thereafter, writes: "Which makes me wonder what people think about an audio reviewer receiving compensation for demonstrating a product. Is that okay?"

I take responsibility for mistakenly assuming that Tima in Post #30 was referring to "Fremer demonstrating" in Post #29.

When David later quoted Tima's Post #30 I made the mistake of assuming that David, too, was referring implicitly to Michael and to Michael participating as DJ in Maier's demo.

So my accusation of snooty-snogging by David was mistaken. I apologize to David for posting that I believed he was writing implicitly something he was reluctant to write explicitly, for suggesting that David was being untruthful about not really meaning Michael, and for assuming that these posts had anything to with Michael or Maier's demo or Maier's product lines.

There is simple flawed logic at work:

I asked a question about reviewer behavior guidelines
______________________ is a reviewer
Ergo, I asked a question specifically about ___________________ .

Fill in any published reviewer name you like. It's not deductive.

Consider this, Ron: If I wanted to talk about a specific reviewer, I would use their name. But the question I posed did not do that. It was you who connected it with Fremer, making accusations solely based on your speculation about people's thought. Doing so deflected the question, effectively taking the topic out of discourse. But, the question remains.

Of course Fremer immediately jumped on this, claiming grievance, making the discussion about himself. He was not a participant in the thread untl an 'opportunity' arose. But, the question remains.

The history of review/reviewer praise and dispparagement is as old as the history of audio forums. I've come to accept this without getting all breathy when such comes up. I think it's a good thing for both reviewers and readers to have some set of shared expectation. Some publications lay some of this out for their reviewers. Ask yourself why such guidelines exist. One reason is: there is recognition of the influence or potential influence that reviewers have within the audio business. (Whether you dear reader are influenced is not the point, only that it can be influencing.) Fremer himself states that he knows people buy stuff based on what he writes and made specific claims at WBF about people buying a SAT tonearm after reading his review. I"ve had similar personal e-mails.

So is asking about what counts as acceptable review and reviewer guidelines verboten? Is that a general rule here at WBF? Does it apply only to select reviewers?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Today Steve and I attended Marc Gomez’s demonstration of his brand new SAT XD1 turntable. The event was hosted by Maier Shadi, proprietor of The Audio Salon in Santa Monica, California. Michael Fremer, Editor of AnalogPlanet, expertly and entertainingly performed DJ duties.

The XD1, as Marc explained, is as small as possible but no smaller. The concept here was to allow the engineering and design and functionality to drive the form and the aesthetics. The sides of the base of the turntable are rounded and machined to diffract acoustic vibration from the speakers of the system in which the turntable is employed.

Marc explained how he does not believe in the concept of “voicing” audio components to sound a certain way. Rather, as an engineer, Marc’s philosophy is to imagine, design and build the best product he can make with the best quality materials from an engineering perspective, focusing on maximizing performance, and the resulting product will inevitably sound great.

This direct drive turntable is obviously extremely well-machined with great precision. While Marc uses a motor manufactured by Technics, he machines his own motor support structure which is literally about 10 times the weight of the standard motor base. (Marc passed around the original Technics base and his custom base for comparison.) Marc uses the magnets and windings and the electronic controller of the Technics motor, but modifies other aspects of the motor for his custom use.

The base for the platter and the motor is supported by three large pods which have a viscoelastic dampening layer.

The entire turntable base is machined from a single billet of magnesium alloy. Similarly the case for the motor controller is machined from a billet of magnesium alloy.





The entire turntable sits on a Minus K negative stiffness vibration isolation platform, which is custom-made by Minus K to Marc’s specifications for the XD1. Like the turntable base and the motor controller case the box for the Minus K platform is machined from a solid rectangular slab of metal.

During the demonstration I asked Marc: “While I appreciate that the Minus K platform is made to your specifications for your turntable, given that this is a state-of-the-art and cost no object design why didn’t you make an isolation platform which is integrated with the turntable itself rather than being separated from the turntable by the intermediary footer pods?”

Marc replied that he wanted a passive, and not an active, vibration isolation solution, and that of all of the available technologies the Minus K provides exactly the vibration isolation functionality he wanted. With regard to why the turntable has feet which sit on a separate platform he said that he specifically wanted an intermediate vibration dampening function performed by the visco-elastic component of the pods which attenuates vibration at higher frequencies than does the Minus K platform.

Interestingly, Marc said that he is planning to design a vacuum hold-down system which will be a standard part of the XD1.

Marc mentioned that he will be offering a specialized and dedicated version of his tonearm specifically for the XD1, and that this specialized version will not be available separately from the turntable. Among other special titanium parts, this specialized tonearm will have a titanium tube inside the carbon fiber arm-wand.





As with the system I heard a few weeks ago at The Audio Salon the phono stage and the line stage and the power amplifiers are all solid-state components made by Dan D’Agostino. The sound from the system today fronted by a Lyra Atlas SL cartridge on the new version of the SAT tonearm, the CF1, on the XD1 turntable was very clean, very transparent, high in resolution and dynamics, and very detailed. This analog front-end is a very “transparent to source” type of sound.

I feel strongly that anybody who enjoys the sonic attributes of the SAT tonearm will be very excited by the sonic attributes of the XD1 turntable. I assume that many of Marc’s tonearm customers will want to buy the turntable as well, getting the specialized titanium tubed tonearm for the turntable in the process.

Thanks to Marc for a very interesting demonstration and technical explanation! Thanks to Maier for hosting the event (and for inviting me), and thanks to Michael for telling interesting background stories spinning vinyl!

 

[Steve Williams]

It was a fun afternoon. In fact I sat next to Michael and we had a long talk about some WBF threads and how his button got pushed. We both laughed and agreed there are far too many things to worry about in life than audio. We had a long talk. Nice to meet you Michael. You’re a mensch.