Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

Each little step may provide that few percentage improvements, but it is just as important that changes made shows improvements in the right direction of persinal sonic preferences.

I’m more then happy to share my experience on the subject and have been doing so. However this may be the wrong thread for it as people seem to think these are mandatory to get good performance from the Extreme. While the magnitude of these are in fact significantly reduced when the Extreme is in play, making all of them minor tweaks.

Let me put it this way, all of the networking tweaks combined have significantly less effect then one of our Daiza platforms. And the Extreme has very extensive “anti vibration” measures built into its construction already.
 
This thread was originally started to discuss the Taiko Audio Extreme. It's been a great thread with so many informative posts regarding the Extreme itself, how it compared to other servers and lastly how to optimize a network and connection to DACs, UNTIL YESTERDAY.

Where the thread got side-tracked was the thought that the Extreme "required" tweaks on the connection to the DAC side and then the network side. Hopefully everyone now realizes there are NO REQUIRED TWEAKS for the Extreme to operate in any system. Tweaking the connetion to the DAC and the network side of the equation are totally optional.

I am not familiar with any other server manufacturer who has taken the time to go beyond their server product and help users to optimize the network side and the connection to the DAC side so that the end result can be optimized as much as possible to allow for an overall system performance sonic enhancement.

I have personally learned more about the digital chain (network-renderer-server-DAC) from Emile JUST IN THIS THREAD than any other place in my years of working with digital, which started in the 80's.

My suggestion is for those that don't want to optimize their digital system from the DAC back through the server and back to the ISP (Internet Service Provider) and just want to buy a plug and play server/renderer/streamer etc. start a new thread (there are already SO many of these threads in existence on every forum) and allow all of the WBF members that want to continue with this great thread to continue discussing how to use the Extreme and enhance the connection to the DAC side of the equation, but to me personally continue to understand ESPECIALLY the network side of the equation.

Let's keep this Extreme thread going as it has been and just start new threads to discuss other avenues.
 
I’m more then happy to share my experience on the subject and have been doing so. However this may be the wrong thread for it as people seem to think these are mandatory to get good performance from the Extreme. While the magnitude of these are in fact significantly reduced when the Extreme is in play, making all of them minor tweaks.

Let me put it this way, all of the networking tweaks combined have significantly less effect then one of our Daiza platforms. And the Extreme has very extensive “anti vibration” measures built into its construction already.

This has been a very healthy discussion so far in discussing many tweaks or to me implementations of networking that can make a positive impact with the SGM Extreme.

Except for the few lucky owners of the SGM Extreme, others maybe interested to just find out more which ultimately may pave the way for an upgrade to Emile's fine server.

Discussions with further exposure with what works or not is invaluable information, possibly with Mike trying more exotic cable implementations and related ancillaries that will be required with any server, but in this case the SGM Extreme.

After all, customers unvesting in a SGM Extreme will also go the extreme to want to ensure everything in the setup has been optimal.

This will also allow for further optimisation of the SGM server and recommendations of the server setup for even more sonic bliss users are already from the already highly tuned and tweaked SGM Extreme.

It may be the best for Emile to explore and recommend what possibly works as a improvement or not particularly in line with advancing the sonics in the right direction of the advancingbthebstreaming performance of the SGM Extreme.

It is important to understand exactly what and how Emile responds as many would not have the experience and exposure with differences in the supporting network implementation to know how it responds.

Clearly, Emile stated that certain implementation is less important or impactful with the SGM, but there may be certain ones when explored that may produce greater benefits when used with the Extreme.

It has certainly been my same conclusions and totally agree with Emile that a server of high level will need less of these so called tweaks, but almost certainly, the better offerings like adding a clocked Sotm switch and some other minimal audiophile networking implementations can be recommended in the network setup for Extreme users that will be worthwhile and beneficial to implement. If not, even mandatory at Emile's advice.

Even if some of these improvements may not be as large as when implemented with other lesser server, will be considered as an important improvements with the Extreme.

I also sharr my experience that for lesser servers, these tweaks certainly bridges the performance gap till a point and where as Emiles states, adding certain tweaks will impact less with the Extreme.

This is exactly what i have experienced upgrading from lesser streamers with much network implementations reinforces my understanding and totally convinced that all the network tweaks will never approach a decently setup Extreme which has been finely tuned by Emile from just his one sentence.

I would love to read and learn more from Emile through this thread in which areas can prove more to have an impact with the SGM Extreme, whether testing different ethernet, usb cables and fibre implementations.
 
I do agree with your comment below as that has been my experience. as well as I believe firmly in eliminating noise from ones system. I went the rack and footer route.

IMO-

Steve, my post here has nothing to do with this thread, it's commenting on your reference to reducing noise from your system with footers and a rack(s).

Reducing electrical noise or signal level noise and vibration control, imo, are two entirely different items. Not to say that they don't interact with each other, but, if you use footers and a good rack then you are working on vibration control, not electrical or signal "noise".

There is also EMI/RF that is attached to the signal and electrical noise vs vibration control.

Using FO vs. copper, and I am not an expert on this by any means, is going to reduce noise that is generated via signal transmission over copper vs. FO.

Using A or B usb cables are probably going to reduce system signal noise or block out RF or EMI interference.

Using A or B power cords or power conditioning are going to block out noise that comes in on the power line from the wall.

My point is that vibration control, while being VERY important, is one variable to work on, but electrical and signal system noise must be addressed separately. When you address the vibration control and the electrical/signal noise together then you can really start to "clean up" your system and hear greater clarity and transparency.

Electrical noise, signal noise, vibration control are all critical and I believe each one of them is an area where profound improvements will be made over the next several years.
 
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I’m more then happy to share my experience on the subject and have been doing so. However this may be the wrong thread for it as people seem to think these are mandatory to get good performance from the Extreme. While the magnitude of these are in fact significantly reduced when the Extreme is in play, making all of them minor tweaks.

Let me put it this way, all of the networking tweaks combined have significantly less effect then one of our Daiza platforms. And the Extreme has very extensive “anti vibration” measures built into its construction already.

I am glad you are doing it all. Thank you !
This brings me closer to get the extreme for myself this year.
I like you sharing the list of things to buy.
This simplyfies our search for the best
I might be in minority here but could you please share extended list of things to buy ?
This should be for TotalDAC twelve owners.
I know you tested many things on your totaldac so I wanted to see what would be your TOP setup?
Price is secondary for this experiment
I would love to see hypothetical perfect system setup ( network , ehternet , swich, cables , USB optimal cable , USB cleaner .....)
 
Are you guys REALLY sure you're glad to have dumped one- or two-box (at most) cdp.s?

I was laughed at by early cdp adopters in 1983 for sticking w the faith on analog. The need for tt, arm, cart, phono, psu.s, lp cleaner, fuss on vta/vtf/azimuth, obsession w level, 180g pressings etc etc. And there were times I looked at that one-box Meridian 207Pro or two-box Marantz CD-12/DA-12 from three decades ago, and wondered if all the analog fuss was worth it. Well, I've made my bed re analog obviously.

This level of digital complexity and attention to getting everything right, can people answer a couple of Qs?

If streamed digital via router and WiFi or hard wired ethernet to listening zone is so dirty, is it pretty obligatory to go the extra mile?

So, if Taiko Extreme and dac, this means switch/double or quad switch, USB isolator, Giganet Filter, fibre optic module, each w dedicated LPS? So, 4-8 extra boxes?

At a lower level, these boxes to supplement a setup like sonicTransporter i5 or 7, opticalRendu, opticalModule, each w LPS.

Throw in a dac, w LPS for good measure.

This could equate to a dozen boxes or more.
 
I've been waiting to upgrade my Cisco network switch to the long-awaited Uptone EtherRegen Switch.

As I understand, the eRegen is a very ambitious ground-up switch that among other things will isolate to fiber optic.

My question is would the fiber setup suggested by Emile (thank you for the shopping list, btw) be a redundancy to the the Uptone Switch or an enhancement? In other words, would we get the same results running a copper ethernet cable from the Uptone switch to the Extreme?
 
Are you guys REALLY sure you're glad to have dumped one- or two-box (at most) cdp.s?

I was laughed at by early cdp adopters in 1983 for sticking w the faith on analog. The need for tt, arm, cart, phono, psu.s, lp cleaner, fuss on vta/vtf/azimuth, obsession w level, 180g pressings etc etc. And there were times I looked at that one-box Meridian 207Pro or two-box Marantz CD-12/DA-12 from three decades ago, and wondered if all the analog fuss was worth it. Well, I've made my bed re analog obviously.

This level of digital complexity and attention to getting everything right, can people answer a couple of Qs?

If streamed digital via router and WiFi or hard wired ethernet to listening zone is so dirty, is it pretty obligatory to go the extra mile?

So, if Taiko Extreme and dac, this means switch/double or quad switch, USB isolator, Giganet Filter, fibre optic module, each w dedicated LPS? So, 4-8 extra boxes?

At a lower level, these boxes to supplement a setup like sonicTransporter i5 or 7, opticalRendu, opticalModule, each w LPS.

Throw in a dac, w LPS for good measure.

This could equate to a dozen boxes or more.

Marc,

i would ask you to start a new thread with this question, then maybe delete this post. i will be glad to respond there. it's just that this topic would be very off topic.....but i can see it's a good question.

Mike
 
Mike, you want me to type ALL that again? You think I spend ALL my time on the forum LOL
Ho-kay...
 
That's ok Mike
You have 30 Gigs of music to listen to.
I'll do it soon.
 
My Dac is 8 boxes so NO I dont mind having 12 other boxes.
MSB? Which digital do you have?

In any event, I am 4-box myself and extremely happy...as is Audiocrack who has the same...but unlike what Spiritofmusic is asking about (which is lots of different boxes from different designers to tackle different problems)...the Zanden 4-box is from one designer whom I believe to be very thorough and thoughtful about his designs and manufacturing.
 
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MSB? In any event, I am 4-box and extremely happy, as is Audiocrack who has 2 digital systems, one of which is the same (Zanden 4-box) but whose overall system has gone from peak to peak...to peak...to PEAK...

the only 8 box dac i know about is the CH Precision mono dac (3 boxes) plus clock (1 box) plus power supplies for all 4 = 8.

it's $160k.

add transport plus power supply = 10 boxes and $210k.

racks, footers, and power cords appropriate for that 'dac' would be 'dear' too.

ho, hum.

i did hear the low brow 7 box version ($140k) at Elliot's place in December. it did not suck.
 
That's ok Mike
You have 30 Gigs of music to listen to.
I'll do it soon.

sorry for all the numbers everyone is throwing around, i can't blame you for getting confused.

i just had 32 terabytes of PCIe drives installed in my Extreme. and my 17tb of music sitting on my NAS (which has a 30tb capacity) is now being copied to my Extreme server with those new drives. that transfer will be completed overnight tonight.

and btw; 17,000 gigs = 17 terabytes
 
I might be in minority here but could you please share extended list of things to buy ?

Mandatory:
1) Extreme
2) DAC, most populair picks seem to be Aqua, MSB, Totaldac
3) Internet connection
4) Ipad
5) USB cable

Tweaks with verified performance in multiple systems:
-Intona USB 3.0 isolator (likely not of benefit with MSB Pro USB)
-Fiber in stead of copper network cable per the recipe shared earlier
-Daiza “anti vibration” platform
 
sorry for all the numbers everyone is throwing around, i can't blame you for getting confused.

i just had 32 terabytes of PCIe drives installed in my Extreme. and my 17tb of music sitting on my NAS (which has a 30tb capacity) is now being copied to my Extreme server with those new drives. that transfer will be completed overnight tonight.

and btw; 17,000 gigs = 17 terabytes

Can you translate it in hours listening time?
 
(...) Electrical noise, signal noise, vibration control are all critical and I believe each one of them is an area where profound improvements will be made over the next several years.

I must say I don't expect it at all. All current improvements we have are based on individual experimentation in a very small community and kept secret and not freely debated. They are not general findings, they only apply to a very reduced number of systems.

None of these areas is new. Vibration control in digital has been going on for many years. The same for electrical noise control. The key problem for research and systematization with the high-end is its diversity. What is good in some cases is bad in other ones.

IMHO it is now clear that in the high-end we have the good and the bad noise, but we do not know exactly which is which and why. But surely yes, we are living great days concerning stereo sound quality!
 
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