Concentration of wealth

[KeithR]

Even more reason to love Sean. He just won't release that speaker to make me have to return to a life of crime.

Sorry to disagree with you here, he's way way late on updated product and losing customers. Definitions shouldn't be a 10-year process and haven't been historically. He needs a CEO so he can just design product - what he's amazing at.

His "flagship" I doubt ever gets released.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Keith, undeniable. Didn't he have a terrible time with a CEO several yrs back? From what I know of that story, Zu came THIS close to extinction.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I guess one could develop an aversion to CEO's as a result. But yes, one must move forward or die.

 

[Simon Moon]

I am going to have to disagree with the overall thesis of the OP.

The 'savior' of the audiophile business will, in my opinion, be the entry level for all those who grew up listening to cheap earbuds on their phones.

Great quality products from companies like: Schitt, ELAC, Denon (they have a giant killer of an integrated amp), Klipsch, JBL Stage 190, PS Audio Sprout, and many more budget products are becoming very appealing to all those 'kids' just graduating from school and getting their first place on their own.

This is born out by the relatively new YouTube channels by young (or young appealing) audio enthusiasts doing 'Stereophile' or 'Absolute Sound' type reviews on budget audio. Like: Joshua Valour, John Darko, Z Reviews, Thomas and Stereo, New Record Day, Zero Fidelity.

 

[Mr Rickz]

Amen to that Simon.

 

[caesar]

You are correct, I guess, that some people are more interested in designer labels than patiently and meticulously auditioning components to ascertain their own personal sonic preferences.

Hi Ron,
I hate to sort-of disagree with you, but the majority of people other than a few thousand, or so, most engaged audiophiles in this hobby do not meticulously audition gear. Most audiophiles are not like the several thousand guys who check forums religiously.

Furthermore, the dilemma that gear purchasers and fans face is that there are literally thousands of products out there to hear and determine sonic signatures. And on top of that, the sonic essence of many components is revealed only in combination with other gear, such as amps and speakers needing to be paired.

So it's virtually impossible - even for the most engaged audio fans gear purchasing prospects - to listen to every piece of gear and every likely combination that exists.

It's also very hard to tell in advance which experience will move the soul. So data points from others play a major role of marketing gear.

Opinions on high end gear do not come about independently!

So what we have in audio is called the "bandwagon effect" (or Herd Effect). Let's call it bandwagon effect because audiophiles are very sensitive bunch. The bandwagon is where popular brands become even more popular as people gain knowledge of them from their friends, experienced influencers, dealers, online boards, show reports, "audio journalists", etc.

Wilson Audio is by far the market leader. Sure, they make a great product for whomever wants that taste, but the majority just jump on the bandwagon. Is Wilson Audio better than Magico, Eggleston, British Wilsons Benisches, Avalon, Dynaudio, Avantgarde, Sonus Faber, your Griffin speakers?

As they say, there is no point arguing about tastes. But they are most successful because of the economic forces I describe above. (And in case you are wondering, this is what the Wilson Marketing thread is all about.) Cheers!

 

[spiritofmusic]

I am going to have to disagree with the overall thesis of the OP.

The 'savior' of the audiophile business will, in my opinion, be the entry level for all those who grew up listening to cheap earbuds on their phones.

Great quality products from companies like: Schitt, ELAC, Denon (they have a giant killer of an integrated amp), Klipsch, JBL Stage 190, PS Audio Sprout, and many more budget products are becoming very appealing to all those 'kids' just graduating from school and getting their first place on their own.

This is born out by the relatively new YouTube channels by young (or young appealing) audio enthusiasts doing 'Stereophile' or 'Absolute Sound' type reviews on budget audio. Like: Joshua Valour, John Darko, Z Reviews, Thomas and Stereo, New Record Day, Zero Fidelity.

Totally agree Simon. Throw Zu onto yr list, total vfm w attitude.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi Ron,
I hate to sort-of disagree with you, but the majority of people other than a few thousand, or so, most engaged audiophiles in this hobby do not meticulously audition gear. Most audiophiles are not like the several thousand guys who check forums religiously.

Furthermore, the dilemma that gear purchasers and fans face is that there are literally thousands of products out there to hear and determine sonic signatures. And on top of that, the sonic essence of many components is revealed only in combination with other gear, such as amps and speakers needing to be paired.

So it's virtually impossible - even for the most engaged audio fans gear purchasing prospects - to listen to every piece of gear and every likely combination that exists.

It's also very hard to tell in advance which experience will move the soul. So data points from others play a major role of marketing gear.

Opinions on high end gear do not come about independently!

So what we have in audio is called the "bandwagon effect" (or Herd Effect). Let's call it bandwagon effect because audiophiles are very sensitive bunch. The bandwagon is where popular brands become even more popular as people gain knowledge of them from their friends, experienced influencers, dealers, online boards, show reports, "audio journalists", etc.

Wilson Audio is by far the market leader. Sure, they make a great product for whomever wants that taste, but the majority just jump on the bandwagon. Is Wilson Audio better than Magico, Eggleston, British Wilsons Benisches, Avalon, Dynaudio, Avantgarde, Sonus Faber, your Griffin speakers?

As they say, there is no point arguing about tastes. But they are most successful because of the economic forces I describe above. (And in case you are wondering, this is what the Wilson Marketing thread is all about.) Cheers!

Caesar, +1.
In the UK in the 70s and 80s, Linn hugely captured the high end tt mkt w the LP12 Sondek. Was it better than Roksan or Pink Triangle? Probably not. But Linn's totality of messaging and saturation of marketing meant that for every ten top tts sold, well over five were Linns. Did this do the buying public any favours? I'd say no.

 

[josh358]

I wonder what effect t a flagship has had on these three manufacturers turners none for vlue
Magnepan 30.7
McIntosh mc901
Vandersteen 7 with no o amps
Are they merely a progression of thier R & D? Or are they merely entering a lucrative share of the market? Both?

The essential purpose for the 30.7 is the "halo effect." The sales of big $30,000 speakers will never be huge. I think they've made some money from it, but of greater interest, there was an uptick in 20.7 sales. It never hurts to share The Absolute Sound's "product of the year" award (with a much more expensive speaker, to boot).

 

[caesar]

The essential purpose for the 30.7 is the "halo effect." The sales of big $30,000 speakers will never be huge. I think they've made some money from it, but of greater interest, there was an uptick in 20.7 sales. It never hurts to share The Absolute Sound's "product of the year" award (with a much more expensive speaker, to boot).

Hi Josh,

Personally, I think this Magnepan 30.7 failure is a great disappointment on many fronts... for magnepan, for harry pearson's legacy (Magnepan is THE archetype for an "absolute sound" speaker), and for the industry as a whole...


There is no doubt that some guys will prefer the new $40k wilson watt puppy and $35K magico s5 to magnepan. Just like togas were popular back in the day to all other clothing, and blue jeans are popular today, the popular taste in speakers today are box speakers. And magico and wilson make fine specimens of those products. Guys who like box speakers are not going wrong with magico or wilson.

But regardless of real-estate requirements of the 30.7, when the new watt puppy sells more in a week than the entire magnepan 30.7 run, and yet magnepan 30.7 competes with $200K+ speakers, and is the epitome of the "absolute sound", it just shows where the industry is...

It just illustrates that high-end audio is a luxury industry driven by herd effects.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Caesar, Ked will concur w you re herd mentality taking people away from horns. Our love for Zu takes some deprogramming from the majority view.

I always wear a wry smile when I remember that Zu and Wilson are neighbours in Utah, and Wilson's paint finish costs more than Zu finished spkrs.

 

[bonzo75]

Caesar, Ked will concur w you re herd mentality taking people away from horns. Our love for Zu takes some deprogramming from the majority view.

I always wear a wry smile when I remember that Zu and Wilson are neighbours in Utah, and Wilson's paint finish costs more than Zu finished spkrs.

Wilson has convinced people that the paint matters to sonics. There are people on this site who have liked every Wilson made in the past 30 years, and have never heard a proper horn. Some of them then confuse preference with one sided exposure

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, hearing the Watt/Puppies in the 90s was memorable. And the pressure to go Wilson was palpable. It takes a lot to not go that way.

 

[Kingsrule]

Wilson has convinced people that the paint matters to sonics. There are people on this site who have liked every Wilson made in the past 30 years, and have never heard a proper horn. Some of them then confuse preference with one sided exposure

This is a bogus statement. As the only component that can't be hidden away, speakers have to appeal visually as well as aurally. Providing a large color palette to chose from is a bonus from Wilson. What they charge for that color is a different matter....it does appear that the new Wilson leaders are moving to more of a money grab model

 

[Al M.]

But regardless of real-estate requirements of the 30.7, when the new watt puppy sells more in a week than the entire magnepan 30.7 run, and yet magnepan 30.7 competes with $200K+ speakers, and is the epitome of the "absolute sound", it just shows where the industry is...

Ok, can the 30.7 do orchestral low brass, including tuba, as powerfully and with the same sheer weight as some large, expensive box speakers? And what about orchestral low strings? Comparable weight and power?

 

[Gregadd]

Yes.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Our love for Zu takes some deprogramming from the majority view.

Yes. For some of us, it may take something drastic and probably fatal.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Kal, I was referring to Caesar and me, as fully consenting adults. You're v welcome to join us Lol.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, I was referring to Caesar and me, as fully consenting adults. You're v welcome to join us Lol.

Thanks for the invitation but I must decline.

 

[spiritofmusic]

We'll were v friendly and don't hold grudges.