This Corona Virus Mania is Just Too Much, We All Need to Chill!

[Folsom]

Fortunately I am not a pediatrician however I do have many friends who are pediatricians and unanimously they all favor vaccination.

Huh? I understand what you said but not why.

P.S. This is amazingly awesome compared to intubation.

 

[Steve Williams]

Huh? I understand what you said but not why.

P.S. This is amazingly awesome compared to intubation.

it's not meant to replace intubation but rather as an alternative when there are no intubators.Let's be honest...none of us would like to face the prospect of being in a medically induced coma for weeks or longer and on a respirator. Rest assured that this helmet is not meant to supplant respirators but is an alternative when ventilators don't exist

 

[andromedaaudio]

The johnson and johnson vaccine is actually made in the netherlands / leiden by janssens pharma (part of the american pharma giant )
They have a lot of expirience ,ebola hiv etc .
Funny thing is jan is a very common name in holland just as john is in england .
Johns son is the same as janssen
Janssen stems from janszoon which means jans son in dutch
Zoon is son in dutch

I posted the link on the previous page

Here https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/...14bn-in-leiden-based-janssen-vaccine-project/

 

[Folsom]

it's not meant to replace intubation but rather as an alternative when there are no intubators.Let's be honest...none of us would like to face the prospect of being in a medically induced coma for weeks or longer and on a respirator. Rest assured that this helmet is not meant to supplant respirators but is an alternative when ventilators don't exist

Workers at hospitals have said they had to restrain people on ventilators... as in they're conscious, and trying to pull it out. I would imagine some patients are between needing full on intubation on a respirator, and nothing at all?

 

[Lagonda]

Understood Howie

Thanks for clarifying

Like Ron, if I get through this without becoming infected, count me in to be in the vaccination line

It’s all a matter if time contra degree
if spread . If it takes a year before a vaccine becomes available, economic factors will necessitate a slow opening of societies and time
will also slowly increase the amount
of people with the anti gene.
Time will tell

 

[Gregadd]

It’s no mystery that Africa has nutritional problems. For them the vaccine is nothing short of a miracle given the high rate of polio symptoms they have endured. With France and their nutrition along with prenatal care it probably would have no effect to stop using it. It’s not whether it’s good or bad, it’s just a case of usefulness. I don’t see anything unfortunate here.

America has nutritional problems. We are obese and malnourished. Children go to bed hungry while we hold their healthcare hostage. Our government eliminates the requirement for vegetables in school lunches. Our president has ordered 700000 families terminated from SNAP.

I wonder what is the source of your dogma?
Don't worry I am leaving this thread.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I actually thought the issue was whether there will be enough ventilators. I learned only a couple of days ago how unpleasant it is to be on a ventilator. It seems horrible!

 

[Lagonda]

it's not meant to replace intubation but rather as an alternative when there are no intubators.Let's be honest...none of us would like to face the prospect of being in a medically induced coma for weeks or longer and on a respirator. Rest assured that this helmet is not meant to supplant respirators but is an alternative when ventilators don't exist

I saw a German news program today
where the interviewed a doctor that had developed different variations of
mechanical systems to convert primitive manual emergency breathing ballons (the kind you pump
by hand) into automatic ones.
They where already setting up
production facilities in a local factory.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . Children go to bed hungry while we hold their healthcare hostage. Our government eliminates the requirement for vegetables in school lunches. Our president has ordered 700000 families terminated from SNAP.

. . .

NO POLITICS!

(And the order to which you refer has been enjoined preliminarily, and its implementation stayed, by a federal court.)

 

[Lagonda]

I actually thought the issue was whether there will be enough ventilators. I learned only a couple of days ago how unpleasant it is to be on a ventilator. It seems horrible!

It is definitely not fun, i tried it with
a collapsed lung years ago, they gave me a muscle relaxer to stop my
breathing and put me under total
sedation for a operation but it did not work.
I was still couscous and trying to breathe, it was the scariest moment
of my life, it felt like drowning

 

[Ron Resnick]

The johnson and johnson vaccine is actually made in the netherlands / leiden by janssens pharma (part of the american pharma giant )
They have a lot of expirience ,ebola hiv etc .
Funny thing is jan is a very common name in holland just as john is in england .
Johns son is the same as janssen
Janssen stems from janszoon which means jans son in dutch
Zoon is son in dutch

I posted the link on the previous page

Here https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/...14bn-in-leiden-based-janssen-vaccine-project/

I saw this, too. I am arguably biased, obviously, because of Tinka, but I have grown accustomed to watching the Netherlands punch way above its weight class in many fields.

Totally Off-Topic Factoid: As another example, a group at a small university in Delft, a small town in the Netherlands, is, I believe, one of the best-funded (by Intel Corp) quantum computing research labs in the world.

 

[djsina2]

I saw a German news program today
where the interviewed a doctor that had developed different variations of
mechanical systems to convert primitive manual emergency breathing ballons (the kind you pump
by hand) into automatic ones.
They where already setting up
production facilities in a local factory.

The ventilator that Ford is making with GE is a passive device.

 

[marty]

Hey Marty,

First thank you so much for actually giving any effort at all to see if what I have been saying has any validity. That means a lot because to me it shows you're being a respectful adult towards me. When I hear things that I think are crazy I do searches for them as well, and that's why sometimes I'm surprised that things are more gray than I had thought. Also, I'm not at all under the belief that whomever does not believe something now gets some sort of special treatment as a moral obligation for the other person to do homework for them - excluding situations that are meant to be based on it like actual research papers, selling a product, or trying to introduce policy. And frankly I like to look at sources anyways.

Now that I think about it I can see why it's best to retract me desire for vaccine of measles (and mumps I guess, too, I forgot that) to be universally stopped. It's a great point that in developing countries the good outweighs the bad. But I still think in the first world nations they look to be a hindrance.

Since you've been courteous to me I'll follow the favor. I'm sorry to say though that certain things I am struggling to find right now because it appears Google is supressing anti-vaxxer stuff and thereby association of anything they use as "ammo".
IMO.

I haven't read the material you sent but I will and I appreciate your reply. What I might suggest is that when you try to explore material like this, using web sites such as Google (or social media) that do indeed filter and rank their replies is probably not the best way to proceed. It's much better to use PubMed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ which is a free service. You may not be able to get some of the full article re-prints unless you pay for them specifically, but still, it's a far more credible and useful source of of medical and scientific information than Google.

I'll also share an old useful adage about medical school training. It's been said by many that half of what we learned is med school is wrong. The problem is that we just don't know which half! That's why one should always be open to new information whether you are formally trained or a lay person. Here's where useful adage #2 comes in. I was a Professor at Washington Univ School of Medicine in St. Louis, Missouri for many years. Missouri is the "show me state". In the case of science and medicine, you have to "show me" the data from credible sources. That's the key here. We can still agree to disagree. For example, what you call a "hindrance" as far as vaccines, I would call "life-saving". But I prefer to have this discussion based on data. Anything else is just not really useful and more like mental masturbation. Except masturbation is more fun.
Marty

 

[Al M.]

I saw this, too. I am arguably biased, obviously, because of Tinka, but I have grown accustomed to watching the Netherlands punch way above its weight class in many fields.

The Dutch are admirable in being engineering, science and fact driven.

 

[Lagonda]

The ventilator that Ford is making with GE is a passive device.

They are definitely working full
time all over the world to come up
with solutions.

 

[Folsom]

I haven't read the material you sent but I will and I appreciate your reply. What I might suggest is that when you try to explore material like this, using web sites such as Google (or social media) that do indeed filter and rank their replies is probably not the best way to proceed. It's much better to use PubMed https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/ which is a free service. You may not be able to get some of the full article re-prints unless you pay for them specifically, but still, it's a far more credible and useful source of of medical and scientific information than Google.

I'll also share an old useful adage about medical school training. It's been said by many that half of what we learned is med school is wrong. The problem is that we just don't know which half! That's why one should always be open to new information whether you are formally trained or a lay person. Here's where useful adage #2 comes in. I was a Professor at Washington Univ School of Medicine in St. Louis, Missouri for many years. Missouri is the "show me state". In the case of science and medicine, you have to "show me" the data from credible sources. That's the key here. We can still agree to disagree. For example, what you call a "hindrance" as far as vaccines, I would call "life-saving". But I prefer to have this discussion based on data. Anything else is just not really useful and more like mental masturbation. Except masturbation is more fun.
Marty

Thanks again.

I won't deny that I like to think creatively on subjects - the word masturbation is a little too aggrandizing for me. And my thoughts on measles are influenced with that thinking. I would never be upset if someone simply says they doubt the relevance (agree to disagree).

Searching pubmed website through Google has been useful because directly typing into pubmed hasn't given the best results for some things; partly because one doesn't always know the terminology that researchers try to compete with. Sometimes there are other websites with peer reviewed articles, Google does have a "scholarly" search. And yes, I hate pay walls!

Your #1 reminds me of something amusing I'll spare the thread from, but I can tell you at this point I'm actually a living anecdote for something previously thought to be bunk but now is deployed in medical clinics.

 

[Lagonda]

Isolation

 

[Steve Williams]

I would never be upset if someone simply says they doubt the relevance (agree to disagree).

I think you were upset with me even though yesterday I did say " we need to agree to disagree"

 

[Folsom]

I think you were upset with me even though yesterday I did say " we need to agree to disagree"

Steve, you said that but then you continued on like I am an anti-vaxxer zealot. It was kind of like, "I agree to disagree with you.... dummy". So I felt it best to elaborate on why I'm not avz.

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, you said that but then you continued on like I am an anti-vaxxer zealot. It was kind of like, "I agree to disagree with you.... dummy". So I felt it best to elaborate on why I'm not avz.

I think you were feeling centered out and if so then I apologize as that was not my intent but rather to expound upon my views of vaccination.. I never once mentioned you by name. I merely said that I cannot understand how anyone would be opposed to being vaccinated against Covid-19 There was nothing aimed at you in that. I did say though that I did disagree with your post and that we should agree to disagree

as an aside, in meds school one of my profs would always say, "apart from one's mother the only people we should always listen to is our doctor and our lawyer"

I remember as a kid receiving all vaccinations in school where we were all lined up for small pox vaccination by scraping the vaccine onto the deltoid portion of our arm. I also remember being lined up for Salk vaccine injection and then a year or 2 later being in line to drink the Sabin vaccine. In spite of all of that I managed to graduate meds school without becoming autistic but with a sense of knowing that I was immne

To take it one step further when I was in meds school and there were outbreaks of TB on the wards all of the medical students received BCG and to this day I test positive for a tuberculin test and always require a follow up chest Xray as a result