VAC 452 iQ review in Stereophile

[microstrip]

I am quite convinced that tube power amps need a clean sounding SS pre like Soulution, possibly CH or Dartzeel or spectral, when used on cones. They will also add to separation and drive and take out the muddiness. Micro will benefit on his Wilson with both lamm and VTL using this strategy.

I have tried it with Dartzeel, Krell KRC (a great preamplifier) , Cello and even an old Spectral. Still prefer a matching tube preamplfier with a tube power amplifier. BTW, the Lamm L2ref preamplifier is a solid state and the tube LL1 preamplfier sounds much better with any of the Lamm power amplifiers I still own.

Just to say that there is diversity enough whitin the SS and tube to rule out dogmatic laws. My personnel choices also reflect my preference for the DCS Vivaldi stack and the music I listen.

 

[caesar]

Fremer: "... The only area where I felt the amp didn't reach full audio nirvana was in the microdynamic region—those small, low-level dynamic gestures—where I noticed a kind of smoothness and leveling off of dynamic contrasts, coupled with what I'd call "start-and-stop laziness," where I'd expect things to "pop" with somewhat greater gusto. But truly, I'm reaching for something negative to write, because the VAC 452 iQ is the first all-tube amp I've auditioned in decades that, for me, completely satisfied with all musical genres."

But this is exactly where SS with most expensive box speakers get ANALYTICAL.

And that's why I prefer SET with high-efficiency speakers. No hint of analytical.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

But this is exactly where SS with most expensive box speakers get ANALYTICAL.

And that's why I prefer SET with high-efficiency speakers. No hint of analytical.

absolutely disagree.

what i hear when comparing big tubes <-> big solid state (VAC 450 Statements-dart 458's) is the tubes get slightly non musical, they get soft and round and smeared......and the solid state stay real, precise, and the music continues to propagate naturally. exactly the opposite of analytical. and my body and mind say 'keep going....there is more real music enjoyment here'. with the tubes it says, 'back off a little and find reality, it's not here'.

to be fair; my expectations are pretty high for these moments, not everyone would have the same expectations.

not all big tubes are not equal, and not all solid state is equal, and not every system is equal. some solid state amps with some speakers might get analytical at higher output into tough loads.

this is only what i hear in my system. but it's a pretty easy load for the tube amp, 97 db, 7 ohm, and not having to power the bottom octave. so it's not a context issue, it's an amplifier issue.

 

[ALF]

Fremer: "... The only area where I felt the amp didn't reach full audio nirvana was in the microdynamic region—those small, low-level dynamic gestures—where I noticed a kind of smoothness and leveling off of dynamic contrasts, coupled with what I'd call "start-and-stop laziness," where I'd expect things to "pop" with somewhat greater gusto. But truly, I'm reaching for something negative to write, because the VAC 452 iQ is the first all-tube amp I've auditioned in decades that, for me, completely satisfied with all musical genres."

But this is exactly where SS with most expensive box speakers get ANALYTICAL.

And that's why I prefer SET with high-efficiency speakers. No hint of analytical.

No offense Mike L, but I have to agree with Caesar here...the Gestalt of his description puts in in the proper context...

Best,
ALF

 

[bonzo75]

Fremer: "... The only area where I felt the amp didn't reach full audio nirvana was in the microdynamic region—those small, low-level dynamic gestures—where I noticed a kind of smoothness and leveling off of dynamic contrasts, coupled with what I'd call "start-and-stop laziness," where I'd expect things to "pop" with somewhat greater gusto. But truly, I'm reaching for something negative to write, because the VAC 452 iQ is the first all-tube amp I've auditioned in decades that, for me, completely satisfied with all musical genres."

But this is exactly where SS with most expensive box speakers get ANALYTICAL.

And that's why I prefer SET with high-efficiency speakers. No hint of analytical.

Mike's system, Henk's apogee grands and scintilla, yamamura horns, Mani's Anima horns with first watt, Heihei's system with audionet and Pacific, jazzhead's with Koda, Vitus, and GG, Martin Logans with SS amps with valves upstream (as UK Paul has and as I briefly had when I auditioned Gamut) are as musical as any SETs horns system I know. I gave different price point examples to show that it does not exist at only one level. It is more of a match between amp and speaker. Nothing bores me more than valves on the wrong speaker, or SS amps making the whole system sterile.

 

[bonzo75]

I have tried it with Dartzeel, Krell KRC (a great preamplifier) , Cello and even an old Spectral. Still prefer a matching tube preamplfier with a tube power amplifier. BTW, the Lamm L2ref preamplifier is a solid state and the tube LL1 preamplfier sounds much better with any of the Lamm power amplifiers I still own.

Just to say that there is diversity enough whitin the SS and tube to rule out dogmatic laws. My personnel choices also reflect my preference for the DCS Vivaldi stack and the music I listen.

I have tried it with Soulution in Allnic, NAT magma, and tenor OTL. Brilliant. I suggested Dartzeel because on his CAT amps Madfloyd had Soulution pre first and preferred Dartzeel later. But that could be synergy. Dartzeel was also preferred by another friend to his Shindo Giscours into a top Shindo amp (D'yquems)

 

[JackD201]

I'm old enough to remember when the whole tube world went Halcro, too. How did that end up.

Audiophiles are fickle.

Halcro is all but gone, those mentioned are going strong. The market is speaking. Those mentioned all have changed voicing. So I think the adaptiive capabilities of these companies has surely had something to do with their continuing success.

 

[JackD201]

Check out how long I have been on this forum, quiet a few years before you or Ron, I’m not a new kid on the block, but your point is well taken. I rather go back to listening to one of my “vintage” systems than to have a discussion with a wall.

I have been at this high-end audio game longer than most on this forum and started out where many stand today,. We have more in common than you might guess but a big difference is that I choose not to chase the big yellow bus every time it comes around!

Like Scientology,, you will figure it out some day.........or maybe most won’t. Never under estimate a scientific and logical approach when it comes to technical matters.

Boy do you really talk down to strangers that way? Don't stub your toe on the way out Bossman.

 

[tima]

Fremer: "... The only area where I felt the amp didn't reach full audio nirvana was in the microdynamic region—those small, low-level dynamic gestures—where I noticed a kind of smoothness and leveling off of dynamic contrasts, coupled with what I'd call "start-and-stop laziness," where I'd expect things to "pop" with somewhat greater gusto. But truly, I'm reaching for something negative to write, because the VAC 452 iQ is the first all-tube amp I've auditioned in decades that, for me, completely satisfied with all musical genres."

But this is exactly where SS with most expensive box speakers get ANALYTICAL.

And that's why I prefer SET with high-efficiency speakers. No hint of analytical.

Perhaps as he says Fremer was reaching for something to criticize. My sense of reading him over the years is that he does like dynamic "pop" and listens for it in a component.

When I think about listening to live acoustic music I can sometimes hear "small, low level dynamic gestures" but they are just that. Emphasizing small low level dynamic passages to where they "pop" seems like stylization, seems hi-fi. I don't know if "analytical" is the right word, but I think I understand what you're saying. Some people do like it but we each get to gauge whether it is realistic.

 

[Carlos269]

Boy do you really talk down to strangers that way? Don't stub your toe on the way out Bossman.

I’m not here to convince or convert anyone, I’m simply stating my opinion like others, so please get off your knees, I’m not your God!

 

[JackD201]

I kneel for no one hoss

 

[Carlos269]

I kneel for no one hoss

So why do you feel that I’m talking down to you Bossman?

 

[PeterA]

I have tried it with Soulution in Allnic, NAT magma, and tenor OTL. Brilliant. I suggested Dartzeel because on his CAT amps Madfloyd had Soulution pre first and preferred Dartzeel later. But that could be synergy. Dartzeel was also preferred by another friend to his Shindo Giscours into a top Shindo amp (D'yquems)

Bonzo, I appreciate you bringing up Madfloyd's system because I know it well. It is indeed a SS preamp driving large tube amps driving large cone speakers, the mighty Magico M Pro.

You have a good memory, but you did not mention Madfloyd's matching CAT preamp which he had before trying the two SS preamps. That might further bolster your argument for SS pre with big tube amp pairing when driving cone speakers. But then there is that matching part about amp and preamp both coming from the same designer...

I also wonder what Fremer might have thought if, as Leif reminds us, he also had the VAC Statement Tube Line Stage. Was he missing out on some "magic" as Leif infers?

I am having difficulty distinguishing between "synergy" and "preference".

 

[bonzo75]

Hi yes, Ian went from cat pre to the other two And he found it a positive improvement iirc.

For me there is no doubt. For a tube power amp I would order a Soulution pre straight away, and maybe later compare to the other SS ones I have no exposure to (into a tube amp)

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Check out how long I have been on this forum, quiet a few years before you or Ron, I’m not a new kid on the block, but your point is well taken. I rather go back to listening to one of my “vintage” systems than to have a discussion with a wall.

I have been at this high-end audio game longer than most on this forum and started out where many stand today,. We have more in common than you might guess but a big difference is that I choose not to chase the big yellow bus every time it comes around!

Like Scientology,, you will figure it out some day.........or maybe most won’t. Never under estimate a scientific and logical approach when it comes to technical matters.

what about this post is not condescending? then you take offense when you are called out on it? opinions are one thing, 'holier than thou' is another.

no one is taking pot shots at your collection of semi-vintage gear. to each their own. lots of gems i'm sure in that group. but you make a point of "I choose not to chase the big yellow bus every time it comes around!"

if you sprinkle shots at others around your posts you will continue to take flack. that's the choice you make.

So why do you feel that I’m talking down to you Bossman?

asked and answered.

 

[andromedaaudio]

This proves the point again and again , its all subjective preference
I think the CAT pre is a bigger improvement in a CAT system then the power amp .
And if i had to spent my whole audiofile life with solution gear , i would not be in this hobby seriously .
Soulution i actually heard on numerous occasions
No offence bonzo as i know you have heard a lot of gear .

 

[Carlos269]

what about this post is not condescending? then you take offense when you are called out on it? opinions are one thing, 'holier than thou' is another.

no one is taking pot shots at your collection of semi-vintage gear. to each their own. lots of gems i'm sure in that group. but you make a point of "I choose not to chase the big yellow bus every time it comes around!"

if you sprinkle shots at others around your posts you will continue to take flack. that's the choice you make.



asked and answered.

Mike, I don’t think that you want to get into it with me. It won’t go well for you. I remember when you first started and came into this hobby, you have been chasing the big yellow bus this whole time. You haven’t been in this high-end game that long and have much to learn.

As far as your passive aggressive “semi-vintage” comment, it is not surprising that we would have different approaches to components selection and system building; me with my technical, science and engineering background and credentials, and you with your car salesman background, we just simply have a different mentality and acumen .

Don’t poke a bear.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Carlos may be its time to show us some pictures / info on your system so that everybody knows what we are dealing with here

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos may be its time to show us some pictures / info on your system so that everybody knows what we are dealing with here

Just a few pictures and videos of some of my equipment and systems, more to come:

Pictures and videos of some of my equipment

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nice collection of gear , dont tell ked your adres , he ll be on the first plane when this virus thing ends .
But to be honest i think mike s room / system looks more balanced - tuned , with of course a large analogue source .
Jacks system is no joke either
I think a bit more respect from your side would be appropriate