VAC 452 iQ review in Stereophile

[Carlos269]

Nice collection of gear , dont tell ked your adres , he ll be on the first plane when this virus thing ends .
But to be honest i think mike s room / system looks more balanced tuned , with of course a large analogue source .
Jacks system is no joke either
I think a bit more respect from your side would be appropriate

I suggest you go back and read the postings on this thread and it is obvious who has come after who and been disrespectful. I’m am just simply responding to the comments, as they relate to me.

By the way, which of my seven rooms did you feel was less balanced? I’m curious as there is simply no comparison in my mind; my systems have been carefully curated with very special, rare and one of a kind pieces, while I can write a check and recreate Mike’s system tomorrow if I wanted to; which I would never do as I have a disdain to being a member of the flavor of the month club.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Audio is not a competition.
Seems to me you left the room a bit out of the equation .
I can also write a check tomorrow and acquire a system like mike has ,..... but then the tuning/voicing starts and thats different for everybody .
So you or i wont end up with the same end result

 

[spiritofmusic]

Carlos, I think you'll find Mike is too chilled, too fulfilled, and frankly not that bothered, re any "competition".
Of course, there are some guys always running a race in their head.

 

[jdza]

Any minute now:

"

"

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am quite convinced that tube power amps need a clean sounding SS pre like Soulution, possibly CH or Dartzeel or spectral, when used on cones. They will also add to separation and drive and take out the muddiness. Micro will benefit on his Wilson with both lamm and VTL using this strategy.

Interesting, but I thought we believe that implementation trumps theory? (And this sounds to me like the kind of pronouncement of general applicability which you would criticize me for making. (I know you are going to reply that your view is based entirely on actual, experiential auditioning.))

What about hybrid pre-amps like the VTL TL-7.5 Series III? Does that split the sonic differences you are reporting?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I didn’t realize that was your standard Ron. I mean I know I have been touting the “closest to live “ as my reference but a lot of people here disagreed that this should even be a goal of audio and that you just have to think it sounds “good” whatever that means.

Dear Brad,

I stand by the four alternative but not mutually exclusive objectives of high-end audio we articulated here a few years ago.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . I can write a check and recreate Mike’s system tomorrow if I wanted . . .

This is true of most of our systems, but so what? And you cannot write a check to re-create MikeL's listening room.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Any minute now:

"

"

If you ever get asked at a party what hobbies you have, never say being an audiophile. The number of people who say "you don't really sit down to listen to music, do you?"

 

[caesar]

absolutely disagree.

what i hear when comparing big tubes <-> big solid state (VAC 450 Statements-dart 458's) is the tubes get slightly non musical, they get soft and round and smeared......and the solid state stay real, precise, and the music continues to propagate naturally. exactly the opposite of analytical. and my body and mind say 'keep going....there is more real music enjoyment here'. with the tubes it says, 'back off a little and find reality, it's not here'.

to be fair; my expectations are pretty high for these moments, not everyone would have the same expectations.

not all big tubes are not equal, and not all solid state is equal, and not every system is equal. some solid state amps with some speakers might get analytical at higher output into tough loads.

this is only what i hear in my system. but it's a pretty easy load for the tube amp, 97 db, 7 ohm, and not having to power the bottom octave. so it's not a context issue, it's an amplifier issue.

Hi Mike,
I hear you. I own some of the most killer SS amps ever made - Symphonic Line Kraft, and run them in my top system. So I know where you are coming from.

But I contend that this "demarcation line" between the SS and tube technologies differs for all and is determined by preference in each individual system.

 

[caesar]

Mike, I don’t think that you want to get into it with me. It won’t go well for you. I remember when you first started and came into this hobby, you have been chasing the big yellow bus this whole time. You haven’t been in this high-end game that long and have much to learn.

As far as your passive aggressive “semi-vintage” comment, it is not surprising that we would have different approaches to components selection and system building; me with my technical, science and engineering background and credentials, and you with your car salesman background, we just simply have a different mentality and acumen .

Don’t poke a bear.

Hi Carlos,
I just clicked on your system thread. Some killer gear.

But can you and the rest of the folks here please amp down the rhetoric?

 

[Carlos269]

This is true of most of our systems, but so what? And you cannot write a check to re-create MikeL's listening room.

Ron, when you look at my credentials, including acoustics design work at NASA for one, even the room is within of my core competencies.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, when you look at my credentials, including acoustics design work at NASA for one, even the room is not out of my core competencies.

What is NASA's position on second order harmonic distortion from SETs?

 

[caesar]

...
When I think about listening to live acoustic music I can sometimes hear "small, low level dynamic gestures" but they are just that. Emphasizing small low level dynamic passages to where they "pop" seems like stylization, seems hi-fi. I don't know if "analytical" is the right word, but I think I understand what you're saying. Some people do like it but we each get to gauge whether it is realistic.

Hi Tima,
I think a lot of comments and the view of the audio world we have is based on our experiences. My recommendation is that when it's safe, please get to hear a high efficiency system driven by SET. Something as basic as Zu will do, or of course a top horn system would be incredible.

I think the quote I highlighted from Fremer is what separates not only tubes vs SS, but box speakers vs. high- efficiency speakers. It's that "little microdynamic stuff" is what makes music sound so alive.

I would then be interested to then hear your opinion on whether the low level passages are "hi-fi", as to me it's the very opposite of "hi-fi" and why I despise most popular box speakers, big SS, and the dCS that Fremer is using.

 

[caesar]

I am having difficulty distinguishing between "synergy" and "preference".

One man's synergy is another man's preference. These are all experiences.

So they need to be described and compared in context, with proper supporting details.

 

[Carlos269]

What is NASA's position on second order harmonic distortion from SETs?

Actually when we did EMI & RFI mitigation to quiet noisy laptops and electronic equipment inside the space shuttles’ and international space stations’ control cabins, we did Fast Fourier and Laplace Analysis of harmonics, so related work in a way with regards to spectra physics.

 

[cjfrbw]

A Grey Poupon check writing competition at the audiophile country club. Cool.

How about a Grey Poupon pie fight, now.

 

[caesar]

Situation is that today there are amazing SS
Like CH,Dartzeel,Technical Brain,GrYphon,Soulution,Constellation ecc

I used top tube for 35 years,Arc,Hal Amp,Jadis,Yamamura,AudioTekne,Mactone,Shindo,ANJ,Kondo but when I brought CH at home I enter in a new world
My 2 Kondo Souga,absolutely best Kondo amp,in biamp with a 97 dB speaker lost on every parameter with CH
My friend with Viva New Aurora when
Listen at home Ch sold immediately Viva
Priator with Nola and tube amp when listen at home M1 bought immediately

Hi,
I am not a believer in absolutes in high end audio. I heard CH gear a number of times, including the raved phono stage, and in many cases I prefer tubes. I can't stand CH amps with Magico - sounds like a confused mess to me, vs. say, CAT and Gryphon amps which are much more musical for my taste. But CH sounds incredible with Rockport...

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting, but I thought we believe that implementation trumps theory? (And this sounds to me like the kind of pronouncement of general applicability which you would criticize me for making. (I know you are going to reply that your view is based entirely on actual, experiential auditioning.))

What about hybrid pre-amps like the VTL TL-7.5 Series III? Does that split the sonic differences you are reporting?

I think to understand the point I am making, you have to first observe my point that I don't like VTL, AR, CJ amp implementations for cones. Because they lack drive and they muddy. Then, my second point follows that to improve such implementations, where you want to retain the valve harmonics into the cone, you add the SS pre before. It increases the separation, clarity, drive, reduces noise, increases transparency, makes things musical. This came from my observations with Soulution into NAT, Allnic, and Tenor. I have a couple of examples of other users preferring Soulution and Dartzeel to Shindo and CAT. Overall, I therefore conclude this will work for any valve amp implementation that I think is muddy, thick, colored, lacks drive.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think to understand the point I am making, you have to first observe my point that I don't like VTL, AR, CJ amp implementations for cones. Because they lack drive and they muddy.

. . .

What about OTL amplifiers?

Maybe you just do not like output transformers in VTL, AR, CJ?

And what you're describing ("lack drive and muddy") suggests to me a damping incompatibility with the speaker. (VTL actually has a three position damping control.)

And why not reverse the chain, and add the valve harmonics to the line-stage preamplifier, so the cones are controlled by a solid-state output stage?

PS: I personally have become more sympathetic to a less than 100% tube preamplification - amplification chain over time. It is a lot to ask of tubes to generate 70, 80, 90dB of gain with very little noise.

My VTL preamp has a solid-state output stage. (See, I'm flexible; I am a Gen X after all!)

 

[bonzo75]

What about OTL amplifiers?

Maybe you just do not like output transformers in VTL, AR, CJ?

Yes the tenor OTL I heard was with Soulution as pre. The only other OTL I like is Berning quadrature and that does have a clean sound with the Berning pre amp, though one of the guys on the forum owns it with Soulution preamp