In general my digital is better than my vinyl. but my vinyl is better than my digital

[Mikem53]

I personally have no interest in vinyl. Gave it up maybe 25 years ago and have never looked back. Way too much work (and money) to get it to sound decent compared to a competent sounding digital system. And far easier to use on a daily basis. Why this forum is having another D vs A discussion is beyond me.

I gave up analog too about the same time, long ago.. One just needs to look at a digital TV vs Analog to SEE how good digital can be.. Why do some People think the same can’t be applied to sonics ? I can understand how having a huge vinyl collection would keep Some from wanting Digital , or just for the pure nostalgia aspects.. Analog has improved along the way but is limited by it archaic design and is very expensive to do right.. Digital is just coming of age in the audio world and has fewer limitations than analog.. The best is yet to come, IMO.
It took almost 25 years of being patient and several Iterations of formats and equipment have come and gone in the process that were mediocre at best..
I have found equal pleasure in hearing vinyl done right vs a good digital setup.. Finally !!! I’m just glad I’m able to FINALLY enjoy my digital collection of music without feeling subpar.. Glad we have Choices !

 

[dcathro]

Excuse me, but what does that mean?

That is what I am asking Ron

"....merely decent or competent sound, digital is the way to go."

 

[Al M.]

Excuse me, but what does that mean?

It means a strong statement of subjective preference .

 

[microstrip]

Actually I'd be the first to admit that sound quality is all about source - the mastering of the recording - and that this makes more difference to the sound than the playback method. (For this reason I think most of the discussion about hi-res completely misses the mark).

True, but once you get a good system you find that mastering is in general much better than people imagine and many times our criticism is due to inconsistency between the equipment used in the recording/mastering and the playback equipment. Also mastering is subjective - it also falls in the one's man meat is another man's poison class.

I only have a reduced number of hi-res recordings and I find most of them excellent sounding and worth the extra I paid over the price of the redbook version.

My primary objection to the whole streaming malarkey is ergonomic, but I also think it has pernicious effects over on how people value music. A tablet or laptop screen is a truly awful way to interface with a music collection, cheap and nasty, reducing music to an unmetered commodity.

Although I hate tablets since long people having large music collections have used database software to help keeping their collections and searching for music to listen - I am ready to accept the computer interface. My main concern are the suggestions - most streaming interfaces suggest music to the listener. I find such practice very objectionable.

Add in the long-term risk of abandoning ownership of media in favour of service fees that guarantee nothing but a month's access at at time to an ever-changing cataologue (that can and occasionally does shrink without notice as labels fall in and out of contract with streaming providers), as well as nasty innovations like MQA that are sneaking in rights management by the major recording companies by the back door, and I want nothing to do with it.

Physical media was subject to similar problems - did you ever had to replace a cherished scratched LP? Many companies having streaming will happily sell you the digital files if you want to pay for them - although the legal part of such sales is nebulous.

Can we consider that reproduced music is becoming a service, like real music, not a product any more?

 

[PeterA]

The thing that I wonder about is why there seem to be so many vinyl-only systems, given that digital has come such a long way. I understand that vinyl is very expensive and inconvenient so audiophiles have switched to digital or never even owned vinyl. But, digital is so relatively cheap, (Yggy2 DAC plus streaming or transport plus cables) why don't the vinyl only guys also have some decent digital simply for convenience and access to so much additional music? That to me is the question.

I'll probably buy another turntable before I add digital to my system. I listen to CDs and streaming at my friends' houses. If they also have vinyl, we usually switch over after a short while. People make their choices.

 

[microstrip]

It means a strong statement of subjective preference .

IMHO an extremely biased weak statement of subjective preference ...

Also IMHO physical media is much more convenient that virtual media. With physical media we buy /listen /store. With digital we must buy, keep inventories, store, make backups, look for information on the net and update software.

 

[Mikem53]

It means a strong statement of subjective preference .

“Each time our subjective reality emanates, and creates something magnificent or magical, objective reality is also there, impatiently waiting to destroy it.”

 

[PeterA]

Also IMHO physical media is much more convenient that virtual media. With physical media we buy /listen /store. With digital we must buy, keep inventories, store, make backups, look for information on the net and update software.

Interesting comment. I had taken for granted that all digital was much more convenient than vinyl, but now that I think of it, I have always had trouble when the dealer gives me a sheet of glass to hold in my lap to listen to music. And that does not even take into account the effort required to set up a streaming system and get the files in the first place. And then you have a piece of glass and not an album cover with liner notes.

I think owning and listening to physical CDs is the most convenient process, though one is limited to the music he owns. Then comes vinyl, but he is still limited to his collection. Streaming opens a whole new world with access to everything except the old performances that have not yet been digitized. The problem with streaming for me is figuring out how it works. Some of my friends have done it with some difficulties but seem to be happy with the results.

 

[Mikem53]

Also IMHO physical media is much more convenient that virtual media. With physical media we buy /listen /store. With digital we must buy, keep inventories, store, make backups, look for information on the net and update software.

I buy digital media / listen / store.. ? digital Inventories ? My computer does the backups, searches and filing for me.. My computer also makes sure I get an exact copy of the music Every time.
I can understand some being intimidated by the digital eco systems and tech involved... Being an IBMer
for several decades made digital more friendly and “natural” for me. Hence my bias..

 

[spiritofmusic]

Interesting comment. I had taken for granted that all digital was much more convenient than vinyl, but now that I think of it, I have always had trouble when the dealer gives me a sheet of glass to hold in my lap to listen to music. And that does not even take into account the effort required to set up a streaming system and get the files in the first place. And then you have a piece of glass and not an album cover with liner notes.

I think owning and listening to physical CDs is the most convenient process, though one is limited to the music he owns. Then comes vinyl, but he is still limited to his collection. Streaming opens a whole new world with access to everything except the old performances that have not yet been digitized. The problem with streaming for me is figuring out how it works. Some of my friends have done it with some difficulties but seem to be happy with the results.

Peter, I'm totally clumsy using an IPad for anything, my lack of simple facility here remains my biggest obstacle to acceptance. That's a very lame excuse/explanation, but it happens to be the truth. Exacerbated by 90% of server reviews always highlighting one instance of system breakdown. My cognitive dissonance on streaming is as strong as it's ever been, my resistance to CD is as nothing to my palpable anxiety on streaming. I remain amazed so many audiophiles have taken to it so wholeheartedly.

 

[Daverich4]

IMHO an extremely biased weak statement of subjective preference ...

Also IMHO physical media is much more convenient that virtual media. With physical media we buy /listen /store. With digital we must buy, keep inventories, store, make backups, look for information on the net and update software.

Wouldn’t you backup your vinyl if you could? That’s one of the nice things about digital for me. If something ever happens to a file it doesn’t matter as I have multiple copies of it. Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner take care of that for me, I don’t even have to think about it. What happens when something happens to one of your albums? And I don’t look up information on the net, Roon does that for me. That includes something that I’ve found endlessly fascinating. Under the listings of who is on an album frequently are links to their recordings and other people they’ve played with. Click on the link, Roon either finds it in my collection or pulls it down from Tidal and I’m off exploring. On a side note, I use Tidal for this or to preview something before I buy it. But I don’t use streaming for listening, if I like something I buy it.

 

[thedudeabides]

With physical media we buy /listen /store. With digital we must buy, keep inventories, store, make backups, look for information on the net and update software.

I am very happy with the Jazz, Classical, and Opera stations offered by Sirius / XM. I do have a Magnum Dynalab XM tuner and not some $50 POS streaming device. I just play my CD's on my Luxman D 06u CDP and use the DAC when listening to XM. Very simple and, for me, quite satisfying. And the quality is more than sufficient for my 70 year old ears.

FWIW, tried streaming using the Auralic Aries for one day. Maybe it was the software that was marginal at best. And the Tidal HD SQ varied depending on sample rates. Not for this dude. I prefer a radio / DJ type format that permits me to listen to new music without the brain damage of searching for what I want to listen to next.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Is it your opinion that digital is limited to a decent/competent sound level?

Absolutely not.

I simply was agreeing that if the sound quality bar is the relatively modest level described as decent or competent, then I would agree there may well be no reason to get involved in the organic complexity of vinyl playback.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Sure, you can always rationalize away things.

To re-quote Rudi van Gelder:

"The biggest distorter is the LP itself. I've made thousands of LP masters. I used to make 17 a day, with two lathes going simultaneously, and I'm glad to see the LP go. As far as I'm concerned, good riddance. It was a constant battle to try to make that music sound the way it should. It was never any good."

That doesn't sound like a man who didn't try to make good pressings and didn't have any experience with the process.

Respectfully, Al, that sounds to me like a man who prioritizes production quantity and convenience over sound quality.

I will raise you . . . Doug Sax.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wouldn’t you backup your vinyl if you could? That’s one of the nice things about digital for me. If something ever happens to a file it doesn’t matter as I have multiple copies of it. Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner take care of that for me, I don’t even have to think about it. What happens when something happens to one of your albums? And I don’t look up information on the net, Roon does that for me. That includes something that I’ve found endlessly fascinating. Under the listings of who is on an album frequently are links to their recordings and other people they’ve played with. Click on the link, Roon either finds it in my collection or pulls it down from Tidal and I’m off exploring. On a side note, I use Tidal for this or to preview something before I buy it. But I don’t use streaming for listening, if I like something I buy it.

I back up my vinyl by having multiple sealed copies of the same record.

I actually think a slab of inert plastic seems more durable/survivable than a hard drive or an SSD.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am very happy with the Jazz, Classical, and Opera stations offered by Sirius / XM. I do have a Magnum Dynalab XM tuner and not some $50 POS streaming device. I just play my CD's on my Luxman D 06u CDP and use the DAC when listening to XM. Very simple and, for me, quite satisfying. And the quality is more than sufficient for my 70 year old ears.

. . .

What is the technical sound quality specification of satellite radio? I thought it was well below CD quality?

I genuinely agree that if the sound quality satisfies you then there is nothing else to discuss.

 

[thedudeabides]

Ron, it's marginal per streaming rates and well below CD quality but I use it as a background source.

 

[sbo6]

Also IMHO physical media is much more convenient that virtual media. With physical media we buy /listen /store. With digital we must buy, keep inventories, store, make backups, look for information on the net and update software.

This has to be a joke, right? Physical media requires a record cleaner (or two for many), stylus cleaner, specialized isolation, anti static brushes, mats, clamps, weights, etc. to play 20 minutes of music. It takes up 1' x 1' of space, the covers absorb moisture, the albums get dusty (again cleaning required per play) and many folks back up their collection some for the halibut, some for true backups. Then there's the cost, $25, $50, $100 often for the same rehashed music re - released with a new paper cover. IME digital is a snap to set up is, reliable as can be and, unless you're at the top echelon of music reproduction is the best sonic bang for your $.

When I re - purchased a vinyl setup some 5 year back (since sold) I probably spent 1/100th the time maintaining my digital vs. analog (and saved wearing out my carpet ). To me and more specific to What's Best, the only way I'd consider a vinyl rig is for music that's not released / remastered on digital and unfortunately to date there's a lot, especially older jazz that I'd like to hear at high quality. But for that % of music and the high cost of another source, I'd rather invest in an even better digital rig. Off soap box.

 

[BruceD]

Yum Halibut!-- my favourite Fish! Bl**dy expensive but I buy it for the Hell Of It

BruceD

 

[Mikem53]

Yum Halibut!-- my favourite Fish! Bl**dy expensive but I buy it for the Hell Of It

BruceD

Good Morning Bruce, your icon picture cracks me up .. A chuckle with each glance. thanks