"If you don't have a $200k [speaker]..."

[bonzo75]

I blame you for the seduction high point of aspiration for only the best pressings plus Vyger res sparrow and Ikeda Dava etc… you’ve set the goal posts quite a ways out for me… I’d have to work a whole other lifetime on top

not really. Just get a restored idler with FR 64s and Dava. I am not saying you have to pick first Eds. But you have to know what you pick.

 

[cal3713]

yes and that is to compare digital. I learned that to evaluate systems I need high quality LPs. I learn. You don’t. That’s the difference. You can evaluate a system through digital signal path, sure, and sometimes end up with an overlap. I am now into records first. That’s where the high quality sound with performance is to recreate realism.

Also, in hifi when you learn one thing and settle with it, you move on to another. Lampi closed my digital choice, nothing more to investigate there.

i want to close my SETs choice now and continue with records. Said that many times

Ahhh, here we go again with the dripping superiority.

You know it's possible to just state your opinion and keep the thoughts about how much better you are to yourself, right?

 

[Lagonda]

Obviously I blame you for the seduction high point of aspiration for only the best pressings plus Vyger with lt and red sparrow and Ikeda with Dava etc… youve crafted the dream so it’s quite solid and implicit and you’ve set the goal posts quite a ways out for me… I’d have to work a whole other lifetime on top but it is nice to have the aspiration though.

Graham you need to learn how to cheat on your taxes, its the only way to afford it !

 

[itay123]

 

[Audiohertz2]

not really. Just get a restored idler with FR 64s and Dava. I am not saying you have to pick first Eds. But you have to know what you pick.

Why a restored idler ? Which one ..?

 

[Audiohertz2]

Ahhh, here we go again with the dripping superiority.

You know it's possible to just state your opinion and keep the thoughts about how much better you are to yourself, right?

Its a fair fight , both dripping with superiority, united only in their disdain for WA products ..

 

[Ron Resnick]

Don’t think of just swapping speakers at the end of the amp. You would prefer different speakers due to different signal path.

Even expanding to full signal path, the constituent components of the signal path simply do not drive my loudspeaker preference. It's just not the way my audio equation-solving works.

There are things I look for in sound reproduction which do not vary based on signal path. For example, no upstream signal path is going to make me prefer a small box speaker to dipole planars. My subjective personal preference for the openness of planars is an independent requirement, regardless of upstream components.

 

[Al M.]

Its a fair fight , both dripping with superiority, united only in their disdain for WA products ..

"Both dripping with superiority". That's right.

 

[microstrip]

Its a fair fight , both dripping with superiority, united only in their disdain for WA products ..

Yes, some people will like this amusing dialogue. The only problem is that it poisons, cuts and kills an interesting thread about speakers over $200k and surely ultra expensive high-end gear.

Perhaps we should start a new thread entitled "If you don't have a $201k [speaker]..." to return to the main subject.

 

[XV-1]

Ahhh, here we go again with the dripping superiority.

You know it's possible to just state your opinion and keep the thoughts about how much better you are to yourself, right?

You realise Ked doesn't have a hifi system

 

[Al M.]

You realise Ked doesn't have a hifi system

Then he would have to choose between SETs and CH Precision. Oh the horror.

 

[bonzo75]

Even expanding to full signal path, the constituent components of the signal path simply do not drive my loudspeaker preference. It's just not the way my audio equation-solving works.

There are things I look for in sound reproduction which do not vary based on signal path. For example, no upstream signal path is going to make me prefer a small box speaker to dipole planars. My subjective personal preference for the openness of planars is an independent requirement, regardless of upstream components.

why do you think a horn won’t be more open than a planar? The Diesis has a bigger soundstage than the Alsyvox in the same room, on my records, but wait for the report. Your subjective requirement of an attribute of bass, openness, tone or whatever can come through multiple amps plus speaker configurations. The subjective preference of an attribute should not be confused with your conclusion on what delivers that preference, as the latter is restricted by the records and music you use for audition plus the systems you have heard.

 

[bonzo75]

It's just not the way my audio equation-solving works.

Maybe you are more literature, less math

 

[bonzo75]

Why a restored idler ? Which one ..?

not expensive, as budget was his thing, and for me the Dava on a decent platform for most people will either be a favourite or second favourite choice for various genres of music across many systems. You can read the Dava thread in more detail it has been on since 2020. Cartridge is sold direct and therefore no retail margin.

as budget is his constraint any good restored idler he can find, mainly will be Garrard or 124.

I personally want to hear a well restored commonwealth with the Dava. Steve dobbins makes one but that is not budget, at 18k would love to hear it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

why do you think a horn won’t be more open than a planar?

We can debate whether "open" is the right word to describe what I hear uniquely from dipole planar loudspeakers as a class of loudspeaker. To my ears the presentation of a dipole planar loudspeaker is unlike the presentation of any horn.

This is suggested, if not evidenced, by the fact that dipole planar loudspeakers are typically and properly located 5 to 9 feet from the front wall to cultivate the rear wave, whereas horn loudspeakers typically are close to, if not right up against, the front wall. (Do you remember how offended was the Technical Director at the Avantgarde factory when I asked him why in a 40 foot long room the Trios were pretty much up against the front wall?)

There is no rear wave from a horn loudspeaker (unless, of course, the horn driver is designed that way and is open at the rear). It is a conceptually different loudspeaker topology.

The Diesis has a bigger soundstage than the Alsyvox in the same room

I understand this, but to me the open presentation of dipole planars is something different than soundstage.

Your subjective requirement of an attribute of bass, openness, tone or whatever can come through multiple amps plus speaker configurations.

I agree if the attribute is bass or tone or resolution or many other things. But no upstream signal path leading to a box speaker can achieve the open presentation of dipole planers which I have in mind.

The subjective preference of an attribute should not be confused with your conclusion on what delivers that preference

I agree with this statement in general. But some signal paths simply cannot deliver certain preferred attributes.

as the latter is restricted by the records and music you use for audition

Now we are back to the original question. I disagree with this statement more than I agree with it.

 

[bonzo75]

We can debate whether "open" is the right word to describe what I hear uniquely from dipole planar loudspeakers as a class of loudspeaker. To my ears the presentation of a dipole planar loudspeaker is unlike the presentation of any horn.

This is suggested, if not evidenced, by the fact that dipole planar loudspeakers are typically and properly located 5 to 9 feet from the front wall to cultivate the rear wave, whereas horn loudspeakers typically are close to, if not right up against, the front wall. (Do you remember how offended was the Technical Director at the Avantgarde factory when I asked him why in a 40 foot long room the Trios were pretty much up against the front wall?)

There is no rear wave from a horn loudspeaker (unless, of course, the horn driver is designed that way and is open at the rear). It is a conceptually different loudspeaker topology.



I understand this, but to me the open presentation of dipole planars is something different than soundstage.



I agree if the attribute is bass or tone or resolution or many other things. But no upstream signal path leading to a box speaker can achieve the open presentation of dipole planers which I have in mind.



I agree with this statement in general. But some signal paths simply cannot deliver certain preferred attributes.



Now we are back to the original question. I disagree with this statement more than I agree with it.

the Diesis is open baffle. It requires to keep it out from the front wall.

The Altec creates openness by multi cells projecting a vast stage.

Others do by using JMLC roll offs. Cessaros have a massive stage.

having been a fan of apogee and analysis audio and Martin Logans I do not give up on openness at all

 

[Ron Resnick]

the Diesis is open baffle.

I know the woofers are open baffle. Are you saying the horn driver is open at the back, and fires sound information to the rear? That it is a dipole compression driver horn?

 

[bonzo75]

I know the woofers are open baffle. Are you saying the horn driver is open at the back, and fires sound information to the rear? That it is a dipole compression driver horn?

No there is a front projection there.

 

[bonzo75]

Ron, you are one guy who refused to audition a speaker on digital. You would only stick to LPs. How is that different. You are sticking to your estimate of best recording and the analog signal path.

The only thing that differs is me thinking of differences between LPs same way as you think between analog and digital, with emphasis from me on well recorded good performances

This is just one of your silly things to show subjective preference is everything but ignoring ignorance in the process

 

[bonzo75]

Is it ok if someone who wants bass sticks to only ported or sealed bass, and not vice versa, or any other form? Now you want your midrange and openness only in dipole with back wave configuration? lol