Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

User211 said:

I put a 600 Watt amp on a pair of ESL 57s at a group meeting and watched the clip indictors on my amp light up trying to get more volume. The protection lights were lighting up on the speakers. Nothing broke For well over an hour, maybe as much as three.

The owner was an engineer. We knew what we were doing.

Don't worry, all my planars have all seen only mediocre power for the most part.

The 40 year+ ones that are still going strong? Where is your evidence?

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Mine. It was well taken care of. But I had it refurbished couple years ago. Obviously, it improved with a new panels, but was it a night and day difference? No.

What 600 watt amp did you use? If the 600 watt amp was clipping into a Quad 57, that is surprising.

I will share some early findings thus far on these wonderful speakers. They arrived safely from Spain after a two week journey. Not to bore you with details but "think ahead" on managing these to set-up if you ever acquire them. You will need a dolly cart and a good strong friend but assembly is straight forward to set up.
The speaker in flight cases weighs 320 LBS. and they resemble the size of the Magnepan 3.7i. Fully assembled weight is 265 lbs. The stands weigh about 20 lbs. Everything about these breaths quality from the flight cases to the included polish and white gloves to polish the speakers just in case needed. No details missing here as you would expect in the price. BTW the designer Daniele is wonderful to work with.....timely responsive and knows the product with facts.

I have been listening since final assembly Thursday and best description so far is "gorgeous".......but exciting and fast as planars can be.
So far I have mostly listened to the 300 WPC YBA monoblocks driven by a CAT Black Path preamp...a two year old. Source has been a T+A MP3100HV and all is well.
The ribbon midrange/super tweeter is chart-topping to say the least. They don't seem that difficult to drive thus far however bass panel will require a controlled amplifier with capable current. Smaller amplifiers would work in a small room but doubtful for the best bass. This should be of no surprise and things will change after long term break in.

The speaker disappears so seamless that you just get immersed in the music......no speakers present. Low listening levels produce "everything".....twilight listening is just as much fun as volume. Finally a speaker with the lack of coloration with a huge soundstage.
So far they are assembled 6.5 ft. out into a 15 X 19 room with a 6 inch toe in. Distance between speakers is 9.6 ft. leaving 17 inches to the sidewall. I am listening at 11 ft. to the front panel so equal triangle is close. I have not had time to experiment with fine details as yet since this is settling time but these speakers are so open in resolution and soundstage that many positions will work fine.

I will be moving them to a larger room sometime in the future however they play beautifully in this size room but won't be able to soundstage as they can. Nevertheless, I could live with this sound very long term without further thought but I would be wasting their abilities and I know it. I tried to upload some pics. but it says the file is too large. Sorry.

Gary

Congrats...very exciting! In your experience do panels always need to be out 1/3rd into the room (ie, basically far away from the front wall)? I have not spent time with planars myself but have genuinely enjoyed Apogee Stages tremendously when I heard them years ago. I do recall reading that planars need to be far away from the front wall...but thought i would ask...I am most intrigued about your speakers and Alsyvox generally.

The manufacturer of these recommends 30-40% out into the length of the room due to the dispersion patterns. I have only tried these so far about 30% but when you think how much more open they could get it would require some experimentation. Recommended listening position is at least 1 ft further than the width of the speaker.....just a starting point as each room varies. When I get into a bigger room I am going to experiment. I tried some treatment behind the speakers and preferred to allow them to breath without dampening them. I think less than 30% would play but with loss of spaciousness and added reflection issues. The room they are in has 3 concrete construction walls.
Upon set up they can be played with just the flat cupped stock footers allowing them to be walked. Once you have them dialed in they come with "levelers" which are balls inside a footer to isolate the panel. These fit over the stock footers.....just place the stock footers inside the coupled levelers. They seem to work by deepening the soundstage and improved layering.
Heavy carpet is a problem with the levelers as I have noted. I might actually get a platform that fits under the base as in about 2 ft. square which will allow me to move the speaker much easier than carpet. Low carpet or a hard surface for these would be best to allow coupling to the floor which is why I want to purchase a hard base for them to sit on.

Davey, I do have the Novum Resonator which is quite powerful behind them however the resolution and life these things transmit at you reminds me of why I bought them..... live music. If I played them loudly I might want more behind them but the liveliness with speed even at low listening levels is addictive. Hard to describe but fun to listen to.

DaveyF said:

Gwalt, that is why i started this thread. I heard somewhere () that these speakers were an amazing experience and that led to my thread title.
Do keep us informed as you continue to dial them in etc.,

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+1!

DaveyF said:

Lloyd, I think all flat panel speakers need to have some significant distance between the panel and the rear wall. If we remember that the planar is firing in both directions ( front and back) then to allow the rear wave some space to expand makes a lot of sense. I do think that in many cases, it is beneficial to dampen the rear wave at the rear wall, usually with some sort of bass trapping panel. Gwalt seems to prefer the speaker without this, but I know with a speaker like the Maggie's, rear wave absorption at the wall is usually very beneficial. Luckily for Gwalt, he has concrete construction, so most likely no issues with flex...but I'm not so sure about bounce back!

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Thanks...that was my long-ago recollection of advice. Good to know. We have a long room but prefer not to have speakers way out into the room. Interesting that a lot of Wilsons end up surprisingly close to corners in a number of setups and work well that way.

Gentleman:
Like anything in this hobby experimentation is necessary to achieve best success. Not all planars are created equal.......as in Alsyvox! I have these set up same identical location as I had my box speakers and I am now achieving fabulous soundstaging and depth.
The 30-40% is a rule of thumb but since every room's acoustics are different YMMV. Putting these close to a front wall would not work but less than 30% out certainly could depending on room acoustics. Not to many speakers experience fault from being away from boundaries unless designed for boosting bass etc. Again however in audio all things are not created equal. Eventually I will get the results from my larger room and determine what works but do know the box speakers sounded very different in that room in comparison.

Davey, The only amps. I own and thus tried are the SS YBA Passion 600 monoblocks 150/300 WPC and the CAT JL5 tube amp. with 8 (4 per side) KT120's rated at 120 WPC. Each are driven by the CAT Black Path preamp.
The SS amp. sounds wonderful and powerful on them with the CAT. I do not detect any lack of power with regards to midrange/tweeter. The bass panel has likely 60 hours on them plus whatever the factory has and it wants control. The bass is improving over time and the speaker is getting more open and cannot express how open these are. Also keep in mind the YBA is a smooth sounding amp.
The CAT amp. has been tried for about 20 hours on them and I personally did not care for the injected midbass warmth and what appeared more lack of control on the bass and I tried both the 4 and 8 ohm taps....with the bass better as expected on 4 ohm. Still did not care for the bass thus far with the tube amp. thus far. I think tubes would work with certain types of music but not the best choice for bass for sure.
I have not detected any difficulty in driving these whatsoever just that the need for control of the bass panel is necessary. Also note the Laufer-Teknik boys in the NE drive the older Leonardo speakers with tubes all the time but never heard that sound.
Owning the Gamut RS7i speakers rated at about 88db 4ohm required the CAT/YBA listening levels around 9:30 to 10:30 for 80-90 DB levels.
These speakers with same combination are now at 8:30 to 9:30 for the same levels in the same room. 9:30 on the CAT/YBA is getting loud with them.
I heard them in a 20X25 room with the SS OMEGA AUDIO CONCEPTS rated at 100/170 WPC on big band @RMAF and it was injected into the room like live music with great dynamics.
I have tried swapping the power cord on the CAT preamp and these immediately told me the differences as you would expect.
My best guess would be putting a neutral SS amp. with bass control is more important than WPC.

dr k said:

Mine. It was well taken care of. But I had it refurbished couple years ago. Obviously, it improved with a new panels, but was it a night and day difference? No.

What 600 watt amp did you use? If the 600 watt amp was clipping into a Quad 57, that is surprising.

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But are you 100% certain they weren't refurbished before the 2 years ago? Very hard to know unless you have owned them for 40 years. Anyway, don't worry about it I am not up for an argument. I know what I think

Amp etc all documented here: AoS MIBO

Gary, thank you for your detailed descriptions.

Please consider posting pictures at your leisure.

DaveyF said:

A very good friend recently heard the new Alsyvox planar speakers at the RM show. The Botticelli model was apparently not only his 'best of show' speaker, but also the best sounding speaker he has ever heard, period!!! Since this friend has tons of experience in over 40 years in the hobby, what he told me really peaked my interest. Apparently, he feels that the speaker not only delivers what the old Apogee's were known for, but also everything that they couldn't portray....deep bass with tremendous resolution and highs that are SOTA!
Many in the room at RM were shaking their head in disbelief....

So, for anyone considering a new speaker purchase, and with the room ( and the very large budget) to accommodate this design....something to put on your short audition list. BTW, the Botticelli is the middle of the range...the Michelangelo being their flagship...at a price that you dare not ask!

Anyone else have thoughts on this design??

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Isnt this essentially identical to the Leonardo Model 8 at double the retail price?

Hahahah

DaveyF, they are really the "same" company. 2 partners split up and one went off to form Alsyvox. Read the specs and you will realize that differences are extremely minor. Both websites are still up.

Thel

wisnon said:

Isnt this essentially identical to the Leonardo Model 8 at double the retail price?

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The Leonardo is still being sold by a dealer for around 65k, so not double the price of the Botticelli. The Leonardo doesn’t have the ribbon super tweeter like the Botticelli. It has a piezoelectric super tweeter instead, pretty much for marketing purposes rather than real improvement like the ribbon super tweeter. Also Leonardo don’t have the teek wood diffraction guides. The crossover had to be redesigned too. They’re not the same speaker anymore. As for pricing, that’s an individual’s value judgment. Afterall this is WBF, not value based forums like DIY Audio or Audiocircle...most of the time you get what you pay for with the exception of cables

wisnon said:

Hahahah

DaveyF, they are really the "same" company. 2 partners split up and one went off to form Alsyvox. Read the specs and you will realize that differences are extremely minor. Both websites are still up.

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I wouldn’t call them the same company. The designer and builder, Daniele, is at Alsyvox. I wouldn’t bet on Leonardo surviving. It’s pretty much defunct with no new speakers being built.

User211 said:

But are you 100% certain they weren't refurbished before the 2 years ago? Very hard to know unless you have owned them for 40 years. Anyway, don't worry about it I am not up for an argument. I know what I think

Amp etc all documented here: AoS MIBO

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I’ve had it for 25 years. Yea, I’m sure it wasn’t rebuilt. The guy I bought it from was the original owner and told me they were stock. The guy who rebuilt my speakers said there was no evidence of tampering either.