Munich HighEnd 2024

Lagonda said:

I am sorry, a $200K speaker is expensive ! You dealers are just hilarious !

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One step further after 100K it better deliver all the bells and whistle, with very little compromise if not a total fail , too many laterals in audio defined by a price differential making no sense ..!


Profiting off what the market will bare is what free marketing is all about , so not begrudging those who do ..


Regards

Here are some impressions from the audio fairs in Munich last week:

Our small group typically combines our Munich visit with mountain trips in the Garmisch Partenkirchen and Innsbruck area. However, due to inclement weather this year, we started our journey with a detour to Prague, where we enjoyed a fantastic jazz show by the band CAPTAIN FINGERS at the AghaRTA club.

Arriving in Munich after two and a half days, we postponed our mountain trip until after the exhibition. We attended two exhibitions (one in the MOC, the other in the Marriott Hotel), each showcasing a wide array of high-quality audio equipment. Despite differences in size between the MOC and Marriott Hotel venues, the Hifideluxe exhibition seemed to offer greater value to visitors in terms of sound quality.

Attendance during the two days I visited (Thursday and Friday) was similar to last year, with an attentive audience. Other commentators had already remarked on the sound quality in the show, noting that successful displays were those that were meticulously prepared, rather than relying on chance.

However, I found it disappointing that many presenters used playlists featuring techno and electronic music, which seemed out of place for such an event.

Here are my impressions of some of the systems:

- Lorenzo Audio: While the music system was enjoyable to listen to, the selection of music sometimes felt off, and the Hi Mid sounds occasionally sounded thin.

- TAD: Despite its potential, I found the mid-high sounds too thin for my liking, leaving me wondering if more effort could have been made to improve the overall result.

- VTL\Wilson: A pleasant surprise, as the combination of VTL with Wilson speakers produced excellent music.

- Living Voice: Although the sound quality was not as good as last year, the system managed to impress with jazz music.

- MAGICO S5: Despite a familiar playlist, the room left me smiling, with little to fault beyond the music selection (ordered a pair a couple of weeks ago to replace my S3 2023).

- Gobel + Pillium: This setup did everything right for my ears, although accompanied by a huge subwoofer the smaller loudspeaker was a refreshing look next to all the audio monsters presented at show.

- J-M-F (Hifi Deluxe): A surprising standout, with simple-looking speakers delivering impressive sound.

- Diesis Roma (Hifi Deluxe): Among the most enjoyable stands, offering a colorful yet satisfying sound experience.

- Aries Cerat: While capable of reproducing a full symphonic orchestra, the system's downside lies in its space requirements and design, which may not appeal to everyone.

- Brodman\Zensati: Consistently delivering quality music without much fanfare.

- Alsyvox: A pleasant surprise despite a lack of slam, with excellent midrange performance (can't say the same words on the Clarisys system that was presented at the Marriott).

Unfortunately, I missed out on experiencing Cesario and Vivid Moya this year.

As for the disappointments:

- Goldmud Sound Systems: Lacking in power and credibility.

- CH + Wilson XVX: Thin and unexciting sound, despite previous positive experiences.

- Nagra + Stenheim: Disappointing sound quality, despite the opportunity to purchase HD Vinyl and discs at a discount.

- Boulder Audio + YG: Failed to meet expectations, with the size of the disappointment matching the anticipation.

To sum it up, I'm probably more fond of horn speakers than I admit, and I don't find most Swiss audio gear to my taste.

Lastly, while there were many other rooms with both positive and negative aspects, these were the ones I chose to highlight. Looking forward to 2025!

morricab said:

They made multiple adjustments and electronics upgrades (added another pair of monos for the subs, for example). You don’t have a lot of time to make changes and empty vs. full room matters too. It’s a huge and complex system as well…not some 2-way stand mount.

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Very complex in a hit or miss show situation , regardless the presentation was considered a fail by most commenting here and elsewhere that cant be washed away , it is what it is , if below par experience tells you don't play the damn thing , a static display wins ..!

Chat science and business ..!

Regarding videos and audio
is there a more simpler way to use say cloud share or others
yea you tube has its limitations and conversions
but access to the un altered version would really benefit all of us.
just a thought

Alrainbow said:

Where does builder for in on this group
im curious ?

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I have not recently listened to the top Boulder gear except at the show with YG. I will refrain from an opinion other than to say the room would not make my top ten list if I had one.

Alrainbow said:

Where does builder for in on this group
im curious ?

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Aren't you a builder?

Boulder is also different from them but if you want to force alignment to one of the two, it is more Soulution than Pilium.

Soulution preamp is excellent with many valve amps, haven't isolated Boulder preamp.

exupgh12 said:

To sum it up, I'm probably more fond of horn speakers than I admit

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Marty in five years

exupgh12 said:

However, I found it disappointing that many presenters used playlists featuring techno and electronic music, which seemed out of place for such an event.

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IMO playing all types of music is important however EDM etc. as a steady diet is only hiding so as to not expose the systems faults. Drum records and sound effects and for what I call ping pong music just doesnt show anything real. Realistic sound and scale are very important to me. A Sax the size of a semi truck, a violin larger that a garage door, a vocal I could drive my SUV through as major turnoffs. If I wanted to purchase a Public Address system and put it in my back yard and sit 100 yards away I would but I don't.
How do some of these products fare in the real world? Can they work in a home listening room? Shows do like to show the bizarre and unusual that's fine.
My last thought again if you cant set it up properly how is the public supposed to get what you are showing?

bonzo75 said:

Aren't you a builder?

Boulder is also different from them but if you want to force alignment to one of the two, it is more Soulution than Pilium.

Soulution preamp is excellent with many valve amps, haven't isolated Boulder preamp.

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Damn glasses and fingers
BOULDER lol.

Audiohertz2 said:

Very complex in a hit or miss show situation , regardless the presentation was considered a fail by most commenting here and elsewhere that cant be washed away , it is what it is , if below par experience tells you don't play the damn thing , a static display wins ..!

Chat science and business ..!

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I think polarized view was the word you were looking for and failed to find.

andromedaaudio said:

First of all they are a pain in the ass to transport.
Second MOC exhibtions are not cheap .
I have designed a small model now which is easy to transport .
May be i ll be at the brussels show end of the year with those
If i do it ll be with tape Telefunken M15 A / Studer B62.
which is fun

View attachment 131188

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How much are the rooms typically ..?

Al M. said:

I guess many people overdo subs. With "full-range" speakers (there is almost no such thing) they should be used as a subtle enhancement, not as something that draws attention to itself.

Having said that, for two-way monitors subwoofers are mandatory. There they are foundational, not just a subtle enhancement.

A problem is also that many subwoofers are insufficiently adjustable. My JL Audio subs fortunately are well adjustable. They have e.l.f., extreme low frequency, attenuation, something absolutely essential in my medium sized room to avoid low frequency overload. They also have phase adjustment on a continuous scale, which can take care of unwanted cancellations. In addition, you can choose roll-off slopes.

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At the last few shows I attended, about 80% of the rooms suffered from mediocre to terrible bass.
It's all about integration/homogeneity/coherence.
The best examples are almost always two-way systems.

That's why I proposed some simplification, based on the Lorenzo LM1.


This post is telling, as are RCanelas' other comments.

exupgh12 said:

- Boulder Audio + YG: Failed to meet expectations, with the size of the disappointment matching the anticipation.

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Could you explain what you mean by this statement? What were your expectations and in what way did the system fail to meet them? How long did you hear it? What music was played?

I have a somewhat similar system (YG Sonja XV2, Boulder 1110/3060, Wireworld PE8 speaker cables, Playback Designs MPD8 DAC).

They are poor rooms for full bandwidth speakers is whats telling , Dont see why people blaming the speakers with all those temporary flexy wall rooms ...

Elliot G. said:

IMO playing all types of music is important however EDM etc. as a steady diet is only hiding so as to not expose the systems faults. Drum records and sound effects and for what I call ping pong music just doesnt show anything real. Realistic sound and scale are very important to me. A Sax the size of a semi truck, a violin larger that a garage door, a vocal I could drive my SUV through as major turnoffs. If I wanted to purchase a Public Address system and put it in my back yard and sit 100 yards away I would but I don't.
How do some of these products fare in the real world? Can they work in a home listening room? Shows do like to show the bizarre and unusual that's fine.
My last thought again if you cant set it up properly how is the public supposed to get what you are showing?

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I have a preference for authentic music genres like Jazz, Rock, Pop, Folk, Classical, and World Music. While I enjoy electronic music in club settings, and I can appreciate it when it's showcased at events, I find it off-putting when demonstrators continuously play techno and repetitive tracks. It doesn't contribute much to my learning about the audio setup being presented.

matthias said:

Audiohertz2 said:

regardless the presentation was considered a fail by most commenting here and elsewhere that cant be washed away

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Might you provide a link to this mythical ‘ elsewhere ‘ please ?

Audiohertz2 said:

Very complex in a hit or miss show situation , regardless the presentation was considered a fail by most commenting here and elsewhere that cant be washed away , it is what it is , if below par experience tells you don't play the damn thing , a static display wins ..!

Chat science and business ..!

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Might you provide a link to this mythical ‘ elsewhere ‘ please ?

Audiohertz2 said:

How much are the rooms typically ..?

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Are you looking for your ribbon with KT 150 set?

exupgh12 said:

I have a preference for authentic music genres like Jazz, Rock, Pop, Folk, Classical, and World Music. While I enjoy electronic music in club settings, and I can appreciate it when it's showcased at events, I find it off-putting when demonstrators continuously play techno and repetitive tracks. It doesn't contribute much to my learning about the audio setup being presented.

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I totally agree and feel the same way about what I would call sound effects( test) records. Banging a loud drum ad nauseum doesnt tell me anything since I would never listen to that. When we demo at shows we play a lot of different material, at least when I am the one selecting it. I try to play everything and I refuse to play the same old audiophile stuff.
If a system can't get a violin, piano , acoustic guitar or a vocal close then I'm out no matter how big and "badass" it is. There is a audio shock value principle at play at these events , over the top stuff.
My example is there is a section showing available Porsche or Mercedes and then there is the section of Monster Trucks with Huge Tires and all chrome everything spinning in circles and making a lot of noise. I have no interest in the latter.

chuck said:

Could you explain what you mean by this statement? What were your expectations and in what way did the system fail to meet them? How long did you hear it? What music was played?

I have a somewhat similar system (YG Sonja XV2, Boulder 1110/3060, Wireworld PE8 speaker cables, Playback Designs MPD8 DAC).

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Last year, I had the opportunity to listen to the YG Peaks series in the same room (I believe it was Summit), paired with Peak's subwoofer and Burmester electronics. It sounded excellent, filling the spacious room with music. However, this year, the XV3 with Boulder Electronics simply didn't capture that magic. In fact, I left the room quickly as the sound didn't appeal to my ears. I had high expectations for this setup, but unfortunately, it failed to engage me.

Honestly, having heard YG speakers on several occasions, I find the sound of the Peaks series more appealing than the Reference series.