Munich HighEnd 2024

Worth seeking out, however note that they take a VERY long time to fully break in, especially for the latest versions having the Litz transformers, about at least one year, or even longer! But perhaps with the most intense drive singe ended amps I ve listened to, as I have compared them to the NAF monoblocks ,the Vivas, and Kondos in a different system. Most truly musically neutral as well, and sounds even better with Psvne , or Lin Lai Tubes, although long term reliability of those after market 845 tubes is yet to be determined. All this from my personal, long term experience in my own system, as well as in local audiophiles systems in NY/NJ area.
Sorry for the OT here, but one question: which preamps were or are these amps used with? Is it possible to use them with highly efficient speakers?
 
This is an excellent video. Near perfect sound and picture. It is long so get your Favorite chair and beverage and enjoy.
Note to exhibitors: Music selection
Las year at CAF ab exhibitor stopped me in the hallway. He asked what kind of music to people like.
Nothing sends potential customers screaming from the room Ike loud screeching treble.
Nothing brings them in like a nice smooth midrange.
Bass sells. They want a nice clean tight bass. A good double bass is a place to start.
Throw in serval solo or ax Apela selections.
Remember late in the day listening fatigue is bound to set in.
.
Did you compare the sound of this video to the Toaldac video?
I would expect you can hear the difference in bass and timbre. Check the totaldac room with the same Marcus Miller track for example. The real saxophone too.
 
Or what about Hifideluxe?
Would like to listen to your big speakers, the YTs are quite nice :cool:

Hifi deluxe is may be possible indeed
Thks .

My studers and Telefunken have been completely revised in 2020 by Eternal arts in germany , together with the Eternal arts tape stage they can give Wadax a run for the money as a source

Ps With top Quality tapes only!!
 
Worth seeking out, however note that they take a VERY long time to fully break in, especially for the latest versions having the Litz transformers, about at least one year, or even longer! But perhaps with the most intense drive singe ended amps I ve listened to, as I have compared them to the NAF monoblocks ,the Vivas, and Kondos in a different system.
Thanks. What speakers were these comparisions on?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Verdier
Hifi deluxe is may be possible indeed
Yes. But that should depend on the room. Those large, hall-like rooms that JMF or Diesis had, for example, could be difficult (although it sounded okay at JMF) and very small rooms too (Destiny). My 2 cents.
 
Yes. But that should depend on the room. Those large, hall-like rooms that JMF or Diesis had, for example, could be difficult (although it sounded okay at JMF) and very small rooms too (Destiny). My 2 cents.

The room clarysis had was nice .
FM room is nice too.

From the smaller rooms the one with the symmetrical angled backwall is nice too .
Room 117.
With the indian speaker company / air tight.
Nice speakers nice sound ( for a SET)
RETHM

Probably my favourite SET so far air tight
 

Attachments

  • 20240510_121931.jpg
    20240510_121931.jpg
    629.1 KB · Views: 18
  • 20240510_121947.jpg
    20240510_121947.jpg
    708.2 KB · Views: 18
  • 20240510_121942.jpg
    20240510_121942.jpg
    505.1 KB · Views: 19
  • 20240510_121931.jpg
    20240510_121931.jpg
    629.1 KB · Views: 17
  • 20240510_112224.jpg
    20240510_112224.jpg
    621 KB · Views: 18
Last edited:
FM room is nice too.
Yes, indeed. Incidentally, I found the sonic presentation a little - well, let me say: minimally - over-emphasised. By that I mean the treble in particular. This would definitely be a system that you could get to sing well and better at home. However, I also missed low bass. But even that could possibly be remedied.

Unfortunately, I haven't listened to the others you mentioned.
 
Yes, indeed. Incidentally, I found the sonic presentation a little - well, let me say: minimally - over-emphasised. By that I mean the treble in particular. This would definitely be a system that you could get to sing well and better at home. However, I also missed low bass. But even that could possibly be remedied.

Unfortunately, I haven't listened to the others you mentioned.

I get what you mean
Unfortunately they did nt demonstrate with the added SUB this year
This set up gives you all you want .
Manuel Huber knows his stuff .


1715770227815.jpeg
 
Some notes about MOC 2024 rooms:

- room acoustics (both RT time and the room shapes) were not good
- speaker position was not perfect in most rooms just only two or three rooms were ok in this regard
- AC quality was not good and most audio systems were not fully warm-up in first day (morning)
- many rooms played file or streem (not CD) with digital volume control
- the sound level in rooms were not optimised for each music song , the loudness was not enough to load the room
- the bass was not correct in most rooms


I think these problems hide the performance of audio playback systems so most of the time trusted judgment about audio equipments will be hard or even impossible.

Listening to Gobel out of munich was so much better experience than all of MOC rooms.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al M. and carolus
I ve heard the Ayon Vulcan monoblocks and those are amazing sounding, if one has relatively sensitive speakers. As I have planar Eminent Tech 6 full range with 82 db sensitivity and hellish 2 ohm impedance drops in the bass region, the Mastersound Pff 100 were the only one that could drive these approaching proper dynamics these speakers are capable of. However with my other "normal" speakers like REGA RS-10 with about 86 db sensitivity, the Ayon Vulcan sounded amazingly refined, albeit with little less drive than the Mastersound Pff 100. Bear in mind that the tubes in the Ayon Vulcan only last about 200-2500 hours and are rather pricey, and are sold only from one source. Factory Shuguang Tubes in the PFF 100 last forever if properly biased every coiple of month!Vaic amps were made by the Mastersound as far as I know.

Vaic are fantastic as well, and can be bought for peanuts , compared to other brands new models.
I don't think this is right about the tube life. The 62B tubes seem to last nearly forever. I had an Ayon Crossfire III with the same tubes and it just runs and runs.

I would consider any speaker under about 92dB to not really be SET material. There are exceptions but few.
 
Thanks for sharing your experience in Munich and inspiring me to attend next year.

One room you mention, Air Tight, was a favorite of mine at AXPONA 2024. Small room but exceptionally musical with life and a sound that invited one to stay and listen. Very different supporting electronics than in Munich (Soulution, Franco Serblin, Muse TT/Reed tonearm) but the result apparently was the same.
I guess it's the DNA that matters most in this case. Also, I always say, when we say we "like" a brands "sound" we mostly like what the designer or the design team likes to hear. Especially with todays material and technology availability, in the end it is how the designer or the design team like to hear the music. Same applies to the room, which I also believe is a very important element of the system chain, depending on especially the speaker's room dependability. So if the same person is setting up the system, natural that the sound signature is the same.. But totally agree, getting same kind of sound from totally different character elements is a success.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mxk116
"MBL Room;
Another brand of which sound signature I am familiar with, but doesn't sing to me. As always wonderful sounding room."

You seem to be contradicting yourself?
Dear Rexp,

Let me make a metaphor; Range Rover make very good cars. People like them, millions sold and loved. Friends have them, have been into them, have driven them. But wouldn't buy one. Just they don't sing to me. That I don't like driving a Range doesn't make them anything else than a wonderful ride.
I am familiar with MBL, they were very active in Turkish market when economy was in a rise and everybody was selling well. Heard them in many occasions. They sound wonderful, but not to me. They sound too harsh to my ears, highs over emphasized. But they create a very good stage, live and correct. So that's a wonderful sounding room for people who love that kind of sound, not me.
 
I'll pass along a comment by a famous manufacturer who said that when you go into a room demo, you can tell within 5 seconds if the sound is good so you can decide quickly if you want to stay and listen.
I respectfully but emphatically disagree:
It takes 3 seconds.
 
Revelator from the outside, but often with some tweaks, such as the QuadraMag structure:

View attachment 131182
For my next commercial project ./ model
Standard ferrite drive system /sliced paper cone and
Fancy eliptical voicecoil.
With paper membrane
Both around 7 inch with
foam surround for flatter Fr


In combination with a 11 inch woofer.

Ps but making things more technical complicated / advanced / expensive doesnt automatically result in better sound.
 

Attachments

  • 20240515_142934.jpg
    20240515_142934.jpg
    370.5 KB · Views: 18
  • 20240515_142927.jpg
    20240515_142927.jpg
    539.8 KB · Views: 19
  • 20240515_142918.jpg
    20240515_142918.jpg
    658 KB · Views: 18
Last edited:
They are both different sounding, andro has no idea.
We dont agree often but I do agree with this. I think Pilium and Soulution are very different sounding. One may prefer the more detailed sound of the Soulution or the warmer more laid back sound of the Pilium however that choice may have to do with the system or the persons preferences.
BTW I listened to both at MOC. I heard the new Soulution 701's with I think the Gauder Speakers? , sorry if thats wrong and Cyril was playing an orchestra and it was excellent and in the Gobel room they were being played with the Pilium big monos and I believe their top preamp as well and I very much enjoyed the result . They are however not the same sound and in this case the difference is something that each and their system should decide which they prefer. My opinion is not important except for me.
 
Last edited:
We dont agree often but I do agree with this. I think Pilium and Soulution are very different sounding. One may prefer the more detailed sound of the Soulution or the warmer more laid back sound of the Pilium however that choice may have to do with the system or the persons preferences.
Where does builder for in on this group
im curious ?
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu