DAC comparison and recommendation request
- Thread starter vermaxis
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Yes, that is a mind blowing piece of gear...even the "entry level" Talos Reference.Let me guess - you don't have an Aries Cerat Phonostage yet.
I love The Allnic DHT 8000 i also have the CSport but the Allnic is far above. not planning on the Aries Cerat yet just secured the Ithaka.
Let me guess - you don't have an Aries Cerat Phonostage yet.
Let me guess - you don't have an Aries Cerat Phonostage yet.
I would like to see (one day when I can audition the Talos) how good the Talos is against my CH P1 & X1 with a direct A to B comparison with my Headphone System.
The problem I have with your statement is you don't really know that. The problem with tube gear is that you cannot predict how it will sound in six months much less in four years. Even the manufacturer does not know how the unit will perform in a few years. It will change as the tubes age and as tubes are inevitably replaced. Will tubes still be available? Will it still sound better than the MPD8 with whatever tubes are available? The MPD8 sounds the same after four years.
The E280F tubes exhibit a tendency to improve in sound quality as they age within limits, boasting a lifespan of 10,000 hours. Swapping these tubes takes just 5 minutes, allowing you to adjust the DAC bias and fine-tune it to your preferences. In my experience testing various tubes on the Kassandra DAC, it consistently outperforms my Playback Design across all types, following a detailed 6-month direct comparison period rather than a brief reviewer trial of 2-4 weeks. Having extensively used both systems, I am intimately familiar with the nuanced sound profile of the Playback Design, having owned it for over 4 years with daily usage.
Throughout the span of 4 years, the sound profile of the Playback Design has consistently evolved with each successive upgrade.
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For a more suitable comparison, the CH Phono Stage could be pitted against either the Talos LE or the Kirke Phono Stage, the latter equipped with the TriodeFet output stage.
No, even Ref is enough, based on people made the comparison. Sig is another level.
I can only agree with Stavros. I have a Talos Ref and was also able to listen to the Talos Sig, but also an Allnic H 8000 and a Phasemation 2000. I have also listened to a JMF ph703 (before the last revision, which took place last year) in my hi-fi system.
OK, maybe the context of the overall system (especially the preamp) plays a role, which in my case consisted of Aries Cerat components. In any case, the Reference was already at least on a par with the other devices, in some cases superior (e.g. tonal colours) if you apply pure hi-fi criteria - but if you add high-end criteria (I mean in particular the physicality of the imaging, physical presence, authenticity, flow, etc.), the Ref was clearly superior. Well, the sig is simply even better. But the Ref is already very, very good and absolutely worth its price. Wonderful!
OK, maybe the context of the overall system (especially the preamp) plays a role, which in my case consisted of Aries Cerat components. In any case, the Reference was already at least on a par with the other devices, in some cases superior (e.g. tonal colours) if you apply pure hi-fi criteria - but if you add high-end criteria (I mean in particular the physicality of the imaging, physical presence, authenticity, flow, etc.), the Ref was clearly superior. Well, the sig is simply even better. But the Ref is already very, very good and absolutely worth its price. Wonderful!
Wonderful break down...
As a playback fan myself, I am still always curious about DCS, but it does seem that more people from DCS go to PBD rather than other way around.
After extended (6 months) listening I am selling the PS Audio Perfectwave SACD Transport and Audio GD R7 HE MK. 2 DAC, and returning to my trusty Modwright Modified Marantz SA8005 SACD player with analogue tube output stage and separate tube rectified power supply. I bought the PS Audio/Audio GD combo as a more future proof alternative to my aging Modwright gear for SACD playback because of the risk of not being able to find spare parts for future repairs. However I found that the things I liked about the PS Audio/Audio GD combo I only got on the best recordings. The PS Audio transport is bright, and the combo was ruthlessly revealing of flaws in less than stellar recordings, rendering a significant % of my collection unlistenable. Note that the Audio GD DAC, which I tested with several different disc players, and a laptop, did not appear to be part of the problem. The Modwright modified player/power supply gives up a little in detail retreival and soundstage dimensions, but has zero brightness and sounds more natural and musical with my entire collection of discs. I am ordering an AI Space Tech Labs Super Tube Rectifier for the Modwright PS 9.0 power supply which, based on what I've heard and read, including on this forum, should elevate its performance beyond what any rectifier tube can provide. I have addressed the "future proof" issue by buying a 2nd used Modwright SA 8005 to have as a backup, and a used stock SA 8005 for parts. Modwright will maintain/repair the units as long as there are spare parts. So I am off of the source upgrade merry-go-round.
Note that if confirmation/expectation bias played a role in my initial fondness for the PS Audio/Audio GD combo, the experience confirmed my beliefs on that subject, i.e., that while we can all fall prey to it initially, it doesn't survive extended listening if you have critical listening skills.
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the MPS-8 running variable output into the pass labs XP-20 at unity gain (vol. 75) is really something out of this world.
over the weekend i picked up the pass labs aleph p mkii version to further test out this topology.
I suspect the aleph p may sound better when there's no attenuation since it uses passive resistance to pad down output (which increases the output impedance somewhat), and full volume setting means no resistors in the signal path.
i should also run the MPS-8 direct into the pass labs X350.8 and see what happens....
over the weekend i picked up the pass labs aleph p mkii version to further test out this topology.
I suspect the aleph p may sound better when there's no attenuation since it uses passive resistance to pad down output (which increases the output impedance somewhat), and full volume setting means no resistors in the signal path.
i should also run the MPS-8 direct into the pass labs X350.8 and see what happens....
I have heard an Okto in my system and have had an Abbas 3.2SE for some time and am constantly surprised with the Abbas and enjoy it very much. It will perform to a very high level in the right system and deliver beautiful music in any!
The Okto had plenty of detail but to me was lacking in size and energy. I felt it may suit a SS amp, higher watt and less efficient speaker set up?
Or it would be interesting to hear it in a different set up anyway.
Good luck in the search
Long time reader, first time poster.
I've been on a DAC journey and thought I would share some impressions of all the DACs I've had in my house. After learning more about what I'm looking for, I'd love some recommendations on what to try next.
Current setup: Innuos Zen Mini MK3 + LPSU -> Classe Delta PRE -> Pathos Kratos (as a power amplifier) -> Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Grand Reference
About me: I have aggressive tinnitus and it is triggered pretty easily by harsh highs. I do all my listening in quiet at low volumes (~50db). Want to stay away from anything hyper detailed, dry, analytical, etc.
Here are brief impressions of what I've owned/tried in my setup:
okto DAC8 Stereo: 'wall of sound' and very in-your-face without soundstage nuance, seemed accurate and detailed with huge bottom end but was harsh/unforgiving on top
Classe Delta PRE: very non-fatiguing and easily listenable with plenty of warm bass presence, would love something with bigger soundstage and some more detail
Chord DAVE: interesting handling of bass textures that I've never heard before or since, overall was detailed but dry and not easy to listen to
Mola Mola Tambaqui: big soundstage expansion and overall sounded nice with fast transients but was left fatigued after my sessions (I think I might be sensitive to upsampling for some reason)
Holo May KTE: nice overall balanced sound and really huge soundstage, unfortunately several recordings were spiky and sibilant compared to the Classe and others so this was a no go
T+A DAC 200: the closest I've been to a satisfied upgrade to the Classe, more detailed for sure with certain effects and vocals really standing out in a good way, unfortunately left me slightly fatigued though
Meitner MA3: this is the smoothest DAC I've heard and it was overall very pleasing and non-fatiguing, unfortunately I felt the best sound came from network vs. USB and mConnect was an absolute nightmare
dCS Rossini APEX: what a huge love/hate disappointment for me, loved the big soundstage, extra details, quick response and decay, hated the thin/lean sound lacking bass and left me super fatigued (upsampling?)
So there it is in a nutshell. If I'm looking for good bottom end presence, large soundstage with more detail but a non-fatiguing high end for ~$20-30k what do you think I should be looking at? Aqua? Lampi? MSB? Mojo?
Thanks in advance
**EDIT**: Tons of great help here! Here are the recommendations I've received so far:
Most recommended:
Lampizat0r Pacific (7x)
Aries Cerat Helene (4x)
Aries Cerat Kassandra II Reference (3x)
MSB Premier (3x)
Playback Designs MPD-8 (2x)
Cardas Reflection / Golden Cross (2x)
Recommended:
Abbas (model not specified)
Accuphase DC-37
APL DSD-MR MK2
Aqua Acoustic Formula xHD
Ayon S5
Ayon Kronos Signature
EMM Labs DA2 / DV2
Esoteric (model not specified)
Lessloss Echo's End Reference
Lumin X1
Metronome | c|AQWO
Nagra (model not specified)
Ideon Audio EOS
SMSL D3
TotalDac (model not specified)
Vermeer Model Two
Weiss DAC 501
Others:
USB 'decrapifiers' (e.g. Innous Phoenix)
Get different speakers
Transparent Audio G5 Opus and XL power cords
Sablon Audio AES/EBU
Use EQ
Cerious Technolgies Lumniscate cables
Sonore Signature Rendu
Hi Vermaxis, I own the dCS Rossini Apex and I had the non-Apex version before that. The Rossini Apex is in no way lean or thin sounding. The midrange is rich and full in sound. The bass is sublime. So I really worry that you may not have heard a high quality setup of the DAC. In my own experience power conditioning and cable, good digital cables, and an ethernet switch all contribute to optimal playback of the Rossini.
You should hear the Brian Bromberg tracks played back on the Rossini. Sounds so lifelike!
A long shot to be sure, but has anyone done listening comparisons between respected stereo DACs and the Okto DAC 8 Pro and/or the Merging Hapi MCH DACs?
If yes, please also state the sensitivity of your speakers. For example, My main speakers are at least 93db/w/m.
If yes, please also state the sensitivity of your speakers. For example, My main speakers are at least 93db/w/m.
Fwiw and ymmv...having recently a quites the Aero DAC from Linear Tube Audio (LTA), I think it's worth a demo. My reference is an older emm Labs Dac2x unit.
Hi, I am on the lookout for a new DAC in my system which currently is Octave amplification (HP-700SE + RE320) and Marten Parker Trio speakers.
I previously har an Aqua La Scala II which I am regretting dearly having sold.
Now, I am considering a Soulnote D2 or Tambaqui - I also could get hold of a DCS Bartok 2.0 for around the same price.
Anyone familiar with those?
I previously har an Aqua La Scala II which I am regretting dearly having sold.
Now, I am considering a Soulnote D2 or Tambaqui - I also could get hold of a DCS Bartok 2.0 for around the same price.
Anyone familiar with those?
Thanks but I need a multichannel DAC like the https://www.oktoresearch.com/dac8pro.htm or the
https://www.merging.com/products/interfaces/hapi, hence my asking if anyone had heard both of them.
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