2022 is off to a great start

[marty]

Let's see. Mike told us about the Wadax gear that floats his boat, Steve is having a Lampifest this weekend for the Horizon debut, and Emile came out with a revised OS for the Extreme that is getting raves. But the best news...is that I haven't spent any money in the New Year thus far!!
Can't beat that.

 

[LL21]

42 days into the year...only 323 to go! How are the Gryphon Mephisto monos?

 

[Elliot G.]

Let's see. Mike told us about the Wadax gear that floats his boat, Steve is having a Lampifest this weekend for the Horizon debut, and Emile came out with a revised OS for the Extreme that is getting raves. But the best news...is that I haven't spent any money in the New Year thus far!!
Can't beat that.

RIG it...just RIG it da da da da da dadada

 

[Alrainbow]

Those amps kept total control of his speakers at low or loud volumes . i never felt any change in tone nor speed or timbre . a very solid sound no matter what he played . huge hot amps too . He has them in there own room . i get his thought but man they look awesome . Again thanks Marty a very kind gesture on your part .

 

[marty]

42 days into the year...only 323 to go! How are the Gryphon Mephisto monos?

Cookin' w gas! I think you know the feeling. Once you hear what unlimited power Class A amps can do, it's a "whoa, mama" moment of conversion.

 

[LL21]

Cookin' w gas! I think you know the feeling. Once you hear what unlimited power Class A amps can do, it's a "whoa, mama" moment of conversion.

Awesome!

 

[LL21]

Those amps kept total control of his speakers at low or loud volumes . i never felt any change in tone nor speed or timbre . a very solid sound no matter what he played . huge hot amps too . He has them in there own room . i get his thought but man they look awesome . Again thanks Marty a very kind gesture on your part .

My experience with Mephistos as well. I was particularly intrigued that with the Mephisto, some good grounding and a well set up sub, the volumes went DOWN...there never seemed to be any compunction to crank in order to get that visceral appeal. Yes, of course you'd do it from time to time...but you could still get 'the beef' at exceedingly low levels. Very interesting phenomena particularly for a bass freak like me.

 

[marty]

My experience with Mephistos as well. I was particularly intrigued that with the Mephisto, some good grounding and a well set up sub, the volumes went DOWN...there never seemed to be any compunction to crank in order to get that visceral appeal. Yes, of course you'd do it from time to time...but you could still get 'the beef' at exceedingly low levels. Very interesting phenomena particularly for a bass freak like me.

I just tell people that the picture of the fish is a new kind of subwoofer

 

[LL21]

Or this is a new species of fish!

 

[morricab]

42 days into the year...only 323 to go! How are the Gryphon Mephisto monos?

How are the Kodas?

 

[LL21]

How are the Kodas?

So far, stunning. I am still getting to know them and finding them remarkably composed and resolved in a way that even the mighty Mephisto did not match. That has required quite an adjustment for me in the 'art of the possible' because heretofore, I had not come across amplification I preferred in so many respects as the Gryphon...and certainly not something which made me question the leaps and bounds yet possible in sound reproduction.

The one area where I have a coin still flipping in the air is the upper bass. The Mephisto brings more raw power to that band. On all tracks, the Kodas upper bass is far more articulate than even the Mephisto...and it is really exciting when you get down very very low bass where the power of the Robert Koda exceeds a single Mephisto stereo.

But in the upper bass, there are about 10% of the tracks so far, where the upper bass presentation is different between the two, and I genuinely struggle to figure out who is 'right' on the bass power. The Koda is so articulate, it finely splices elements of the bass in house tracks so you can really hear what is going on...and in a completely organic way.

And in my experience when you do that splicing...you tend to find that the bass wallop ebbs slightly because it is spread out across those splices. By contrast, the Gryphon is not as finely spliced...but you get a 5%-7% greater bass wallop (which for a bass freak like me is extremely material).

I am pretty happy to be critical and complimentary of our equipment and have no qualms in calling a spade a spade...good bad or indifferent. In this case, I am genuinely still trying to make up my mind.

PLUS, the XLFs have STILL not been finetuned/adjusted by the Wilson distributor...partly due to equipment changes and partly due to Covid. So there is also that finetuning which could make quite a difference...moving the speaker back by 2-3cm towards the back wall would no doubt have an influence on bass power.

HOWEVER...other than this one element, I can say that nothing in my own limited personal experience has rivaled the nuanced, organic way that Robert Koda has with music...which is then coupled with insanely low noise floor which allows a lot more detail to float through to the surface. Because of the 230 watts Class A power on tap and his design (dont really understand it but apparently likened to single ended triode, pure Class A no push/pull something about only N resistors no 'P' resistors or something...you will undoubtedly get it whereas I dont)...the amount of dynamic (macro and micro) on tap gives you remarkable inner articulation in the nuances of music that creates both intensely filligreed detail while always presenting it as part of an organic tapestry of music. The closest analogy is like super-super fine silk embroidery which you see in Asia where its like a highly detailed painting in silk...but its all threads hand-sewn. Robert Koda has simply gotten to a level of perfection I have not experienced before.

 

[rando]

The one area where I have a coin still flipping in the air is the upper bass. The Mephisto brings more raw power to that band. On all tracks, the Kodas upper bass is far more articulate than even the Mephisto...and it is really exciting when you get down very very low bass where the power of the Robert Koda exceeds a single Mephisto stereo.

But in the upper bass, there are about 10% of the tracks so far, where the upper bass presentation is different between the two, and I genuinely struggle to figure out who is 'right' on the bass power. The Koda is so articulate, it finely splices elements of the bass in house tracks so you can really hear what is going on...and in a completely organic way.

An example within this 10% would be helpful.

From your description I think many would defer towards hearing art inside of math equations on Robert Koda. At least with examples of House music where layering of artificial sounds to create a frequency response we react to is such a big part.

 

[LL21]

Hi Rando,

Thanks for that...like with all things, once I have decided which I think is right...I might still try to see if I can have my cake and eat it too. A gentle nudge in upper bass power is something I am ruminating as we get to know the sound.

As for the 10%...Tron Legacy soundtrack - Track 17. Those opening Kodo-like drums are a very very good example...perhaps the clearest example so far. I know them well from the Gryphon Mephisto. You have greater articulation through the Kodas but at super low levels of volume, the Mephisto's upper bass balance allows you to listen at level 1...and never feel the need to increase volume because the power is there.

On the Robert Koda, you do feel that itch to turn it up a bit...not for detail but for power.

 

[LL21]

The other one is Dark Knight Rises...the opening track. The bass is more congealed with the Gryphon...power, drama...B-A-S-S. With the Koda, you get drama, power, BASS...but it is more articulated by far and you really start to hear how Hans Zimmer built up the bass lines in this.

Here it is definitely more convincing that you run with Koda over Mephstio (vs the Tron soundtrack above)...and also because the bass power of the music is more evenly distributed between upper bass and lower bass (where again the Robert Koda is actually more powerful than the Mephisto).

But once again, if you listen casually, there is a raw power pull that you hear with the Gryphon which is also compelling. Again, in this instance, I also find that at super low volumes, there is something compelling about the Gryphon...but it is not nearly as 50-50 balanced between the winner as with Tron Track 17. Here I still find that Dark Knight Rises goes to Koda as winner.

 

[Bobvin]

Cookin' w gas! I think you know the feeling. Once you hear what unlimited power Class A amps can do, it's a "whoa, mama" moment of conversion.

Cookin w’ gas, or cooking on the amps?

I used to live with a nice woodstove, one that had an elevated grid so you could keep a pan of water hot to add some humidity to the room. I’d put a chunk of maple wood on the grid and it would warm up and have the house smelling like maple syrup. Your amps could be all you need to provide some “aromatherapy!”

 

[LL21]

Hah! That's pretty cool.

Having high ceilings definitely helps with heat rising. We used to have the original Gryphon Antileon where the drop ceiling was actually 7 foot 4 inches...tight...and it got hot when cranking all day.

However with 11 feet you can easily adjust the temp of the room a couple of degrees, and you dont feel the heat...and now we have 2 pure Class A monos that throw out 230 watts.

Fortunately, I believe in Marty's case the equipment is in another room entirely.

 

[gian60]

I spent near nothing on 2021 so hope to spend in 2022,could be a L10 mono

 

[morricab]

The other one is Dark Knight Rises...the opening track. The bass is more congealed with the Gryphon...power, drama...B-A-S-S. With the Koda, you get drama, power, BASS...but it is more articulated by far and you really start to hear how Hans Zimmer built up the bass lines in this.

Here it is definitely more convincing that you run with Koda over Mephstio (vs the Tron soundtrack above)...and also because the bass power of the music is more evenly distributed between upper bass and lower bass (where again the Robert Koda is actually more powerful than the Mephisto).

But once again, if you listen casually, there is a raw power pull that you hear with the Gryphon which is also compelling. Again, in this instance, I also find that at super low volumes, there is something compelling about the Gryphon...but it is not nearly as 50-50 balanced between the winner as with Tron Track 17. Here I still find that Dark Knight Rises goes to Koda as winner.

Thx for all the descriptions Lloyd. I would say though given what you have described that we are not that aligned on listening priorities (I like electronic music but never critically listen with it) as you really seem to have an emphasis on bass and powerful low frequencies. I don’t even like the kind of bass you describe as coming from the Mephisto, which sounds suspiciously like “one note” overdamped style bass that is a hallmark of most big SS amps. The Koda sounds like it would be much more interesting to listen to as it lets out nuance and texture that helps music stay engaging.

That being said, again, I am not an electronic music connoisseur being much more interested in acoustic music or rock/folk music. You would likely think my system is bass deficient as it doesn’t go much below 40hz but my horn bass is lightening fast and has punch in the mid bass that even big 15 inch drivers don’t match, so I don’t miss the really deep stuff most of the time.

 

[rando]

As for the 10%...Tron Legacy soundtrack - Track 17.

The other one is Dark Knight Rises...the opening track.

Modern xxx speaker theatre or xx speaker home theatre movie soundtrack music in 2ch format are going to be troublesome. Quite sure you understand the native format and mixing/remastering discussion lying behind this is mooted by the fact they were only released as stereo. Appreciate the insightful answer what was impacted by the equipment swap.

Back on a topic closer to the heart of this discussion. Is there anything you would care to add related to a Tascam CD-9010.

 

[LL21]

Thx for all the descriptions Lloyd. I would say though given what you have described that we are not that aligned on listening priorities (I like electronic music but never critically listen with it) as you really seem to have an emphasis on bass and powerful low frequencies. I don’t even like the kind of bass you describe as coming from the Mephisto, which sounds suspiciously like “one note” overdamped style bass that is a hallmark of most big SS amps. The Koda sounds like it would be much more interesting to listen to as it lets out nuance and texture that helps music stay engaging.

That being said, again, I am not an electronic music connoisseur being much more interested in acoustic music or rock/folk music. You would likely think my system is bass deficient as it doesn’t go much below 40hz but my horn bass is lightening fast and has punch in the mid bass that even big 15 inch drivers don’t match, so I don’t miss the really deep stuff most of the time.

Hi Morricab,

That is good to know, and yes, I have considered you a 'reference opinion' in the world of classical music, violins particularly, etc and have always appreciated your personal relations with musicians as well who have spent time with your system. Invaluable opinions!

As for deep house and electronic, yes, I do prioritize it quite a lot.

As for Gryphon bass, I have to say, I am splitting fine hairs...think Vicuna or Angora...ok maybe not quite that fine, maybe fine 120 wool...but the point is the Gryphon bass IS powerful, organic and defined (ie, not one note)...it really is.

However, while I found that its bass prowess always stood out for me when I lived with Gryphon...now that we have the Kodas where the bass in most areas (particularly low, low down is MORE powerful) but where it NO LONGER STANDS OUT as exceptional...it does make me wonder about the balance of equipment...

Put another way, I am learning to appreciate how finely Robert Koda has created a tonal balance all the way across the farthest extremes of the spectrum where nothing truly does stand out. This is particularly enlightening for me where, for example, even in the low, low bass, the Koda actually is greater than the Gryphon and yet within the context of performance, you dont actually notice this at all when listening only to the Robert Koda (only when in comparison with the Gryphon).