A world first? Passive v active isolation platforms test
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
- Start date
Yes, behind-the-wall test. Keeps amazing me. Sometimes when auditioning a system I go out of the room and listen through a wall.
Cheers,
Jarek, the biggest compliment is that Stacores in helping maxx the effects of my room, are totally getting me off the components upgrade merry-go-round.
Other than a streamer/dac, I think I’m done.
I remain tempted my a final tt upgrade, but I’m also aware that my analog as is has been wholly satisfying in the last 5 years, and I’d have to spend seriously big to better it, and it’s never been on a Stacore before...
But overall, for something like Stacore to be so radical to get me away from the never ending component swap habit is saying an awful lot.
Other than a streamer/dac, I think I’m done.
I remain tempted my a final tt upgrade, but I’m also aware that my analog as is has been wholly satisfying in the last 5 years, and I’d have to spend seriously big to better it, and it’s never been on a Stacore before...
But overall, for something like Stacore to be so radical to get me away from the never ending component swap habit is saying an awful lot.
That is all very true. That is why when Al M. and I refer to the sound of live instruments as one of our references (along with various systems), we understand that we are talking about a range of sounds that correspond to the differences we hear in different live environments. All pianos, violins and saxophones sound different from each other and in different spaces. Yet, a violin still sounds like a violin.
My system has been described by an audio friend of mine as sounding "dark". I think of it as referencing the warmth and richness that I hear from live acoustic instruments. I have tried for years to fine tune it so that it reminds me of my memory of how I hear live instruments sound within that range of my experience. I have worked hard to remove any harsh, hard, or bright sound and fatiguing artifacts. My friend's system sounds rather bright to me so I think we either have different hearing or different memories of how live instruments sound. I tend to think it is more about perception than it is about preference in our cases because we seem to have similar goals and references.
On the other hand, I sometimes struggle with the goal of having a transparent system which disappears and gets out of the way and lets me hear exactly what is on the recording and a system which reminds me of how live instruments sound. On the best recordings, these goals overlap and all is fine. On the rest of the recordings, I am less clear as to what is the better approach. In general, I have always prioritized a neutral tonal balance and transparency. If, however, recordings tend to be bright, as some have suggested, then perhaps fine tuning the system to have a sound more like the ranges of sounds I hear live may lead to longer term satisfaction.
These approaches are probably different for each of us which is why this hobby is so fascinating and why our systems tend to sound so different from each other. It may also be why so many systems are constantly changing. Does a particular component bring us closer to the recording or to the sound we remember from the last live event we attended. Now this post is veering off topic. It is good to read that Marc has found an isolation platform which elevates the sound of his system closer to what he remembers hearing from his recent tour of live music events.
+1 - first of all, it's impossible to know what the microphones picked up (or how the entire recording chain rendered the live sound on the media); second, the microphones will most likely pick up something entirely different from what we hear, due to a huge variety of factors (you named a few); third, play the violin from up close and marvel at its extreme treble (I posted long ago quotes from violinist.com where musicians often use ear plugs as to not kill their ears, and other comments); fourth, what exactly IS real... On that last point, see also Roger Skoff's essay from just the other day https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/greatest-tail-chaser/
I would say that concert halls are projected considering the absorption of the people in the audience... An empty hall sounds unbalanced. Quoted from https://www.arauacustica.com/files/publicaciones_relacionados/pdf_esp_329.pdf
"The average sound absorption per person at octave band frequencies of 125, 250, 500, 100, 2000 and 4000Hz were 0.29, 0.43, 0.51, 0.68, 071 and 0.73 respectively. This shows that the sound absorption per person within this frequency range increases with frequency."
Yes. Also concert halls differ in whether they use things like carpet etc. But most of these surfaces get covered when people come in. My favorite hall, the Sheldonian in Oxford, because it was built in 1800s, does not have the right ventilation. So they actually open the windows. You can hear outside sound while the concert is on. Once there was a motor cycle that kept purring outside. Try recreating that for live sound at home, open all windows. I live on one of the busiest streets in London so can build a real live system.
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Ha!
I don’t have any windows in my listening room, but if I did, all I’d hear is the odd tractor, planes from local airbase, and ducks
A Hell of a cacophony!
I don’t have any windows in my listening room, but if I did, all I’d hear is the odd tractor, planes from local airbase, and ducks
A Hell of a cacophony!
About to receive a whole bunch of goodies.
Santa Claus visits early this year LOL!
A couple of Sablon Elites pwr cords to the bespoke psus I’ve ordered for my tt motor speed controller and Straingauge cart energiser and upgraded Reservas to Elites to my monos (just leaving my Zu subs pwr cords to go Elites next yr), SR Blue fuses to both psus.
My bespoke Al arm mount for Terminator air bearing arm arrives imminently from NZ.
Once the Furutech rhodium IECs arrive in Dec, we can fit these to my two psus, and finally set up my tt, 22 months after I last listened to it.
My tt will then go on the Stacore Adv currently occupied by my cdp.
And early next year, I order two more Stacore Adv platforms for my 211s monos, to bring my Stacore complement up to 4, one per tt, cdp, pre, and balanced transformer.
I’m then aiming for a couple of Stacore Adv platforms later next year, only leaving various smaller psus, streamer and dac to go on my existing Symposium Isis rack.
I’m diving very deep into the Stacore pool, but on the basis of stellar results so far, and Flyer’s excellent feedback placing his Aries Cerat tubed dac on a Stacore, I’m fully confident Stacore-ing out my main components will continue to provide major dividends, and I genuinely believe that money spent here is more beneficial than just blowing the same budget on an A-list tt, or top drawer dac/streamer, or seriously upgraded amp, or pricey flagship speakers.
Santa Claus visits early this year LOL!
A couple of Sablon Elites pwr cords to the bespoke psus I’ve ordered for my tt motor speed controller and Straingauge cart energiser and upgraded Reservas to Elites to my monos (just leaving my Zu subs pwr cords to go Elites next yr), SR Blue fuses to both psus.
My bespoke Al arm mount for Terminator air bearing arm arrives imminently from NZ.
Once the Furutech rhodium IECs arrive in Dec, we can fit these to my two psus, and finally set up my tt, 22 months after I last listened to it.
My tt will then go on the Stacore Adv currently occupied by my cdp.
And early next year, I order two more Stacore Adv platforms for my 211s monos, to bring my Stacore complement up to 4, one per tt, cdp, pre, and balanced transformer.
I’m then aiming for a couple of Stacore Adv platforms later next year, only leaving various smaller psus, streamer and dac to go on my existing Symposium Isis rack.
I’m diving very deep into the Stacore pool, but on the basis of stellar results so far, and Flyer’s excellent feedback placing his Aries Cerat tubed dac on a Stacore, I’m fully confident Stacore-ing out my main components will continue to provide major dividends, and I genuinely believe that money spent here is more beneficial than just blowing the same budget on an A-list tt, or top drawer dac/streamer, or seriously upgraded amp, or pricey flagship speakers.
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I would like to ask one thing because i don't understand
If one have one turntable of 20/30 kg,for example,which is the best base to put?
Basic,Basic+ or Advanced?
All 3 keep 65 kg so if turntable is 30 kg you can put in all 3,
And there are sonic difference between the three base?
Why buy Advanced that cost 50% more than basic?
The sound with advanced is better?
Thanks
If one have one turntable of 20/30 kg,for example,which is the best base to put?
Basic,Basic+ or Advanced?
All 3 keep 65 kg so if turntable is 30 kg you can put in all 3,
And there are sonic difference between the three base?
Why buy Advanced that cost 50% more than basic?
The sound with advanced is better?
Thanks
Hi Gian, I believe the Advanced has a maximum load capacity of 50kg, the Basic 65kg, and Basic Plus well over 100kg.
Basic and Basic Plus are variants of each other, but the Advanced has an additional slate/constrained layer platform sitting on Stacore’s own take on Rollerballs.
This means the Advanced has additional mass/mass loading, additional constrained layer damping, and this extra level of Rollerballs isolation in the lateral plane.
I really can’t say how much advantage going Advanced brings to the party, I trust Jarek’s word that it does significantly more, on the basis that everything he’s reported on Stacore positives has been readily apparent here.
Basic and Basic Plus are variants of each other, but the Advanced has an additional slate/constrained layer platform sitting on Stacore’s own take on Rollerballs.
This means the Advanced has additional mass/mass loading, additional constrained layer damping, and this extra level of Rollerballs isolation in the lateral plane.
I really can’t say how much advantage going Advanced brings to the party, I trust Jarek’s word that it does significantly more, on the basis that everything he’s reported on Stacore positives has been readily apparent here.
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Dear Gian,
Thank you for the interest. As there still seems to be some confusion with the platform choice, let me repeat:
Basic+ is for v heavy equipment (above 65kg). It will be difficult to pot more than one table there as the operating area is 58x48cm.
For 20/30kg tt, I recommend either Basic or Advanced (both with 65kg load capability).
If Im pressed to put the Basic vs Advanced difference into numbers, I'd say Basic does some 80% of the Advanced. Is the last 20% a little or a lot of improvement? Well, its too subjective and thats one of the reasons we offer 2 weeks in house trial period. I can only say that Advanced sales are miles ahead of the Basic.
Cheers,
Jarek
Thank you for the interest. As there still seems to be some confusion with the platform choice, let me repeat:
Basic+ is for v heavy equipment (above 65kg). It will be difficult to pot more than one table there as the operating area is 58x48cm.
For 20/30kg tt, I recommend either Basic or Advanced (both with 65kg load capability).
If Im pressed to put the Basic vs Advanced difference into numbers, I'd say Basic does some 80% of the Advanced. Is the last 20% a little or a lot of improvement? Well, its too subjective and thats one of the reasons we offer 2 weeks in house trial period. I can only say that Advanced sales are miles ahead of the Basic.
Cheers,
Jarek
Gian, the use of Rollerball isolation was wholly successful in my Symposium rack that previously supported my tt, so it makes sense for me at least to go Advanced and get the advantages of these added to the rest of unique things that create the Stacore effect.
I’m v close to reinstall of my tt, I have a lot of expectations of my analog really being maxxed out on Stacore Advanced.
I’m v close to reinstall of my tt, I have a lot of expectations of my analog really being maxxed out on Stacore Advanced.
It’s a bit tricky to stay on top of WTF?! episodes, when one follows after the other.
As I’ve bored the forum to death on more than one occasion, my new room acoustics are the open window that I view all changes thru, and have enabled subsequent changes to be dramatically successful, Stacore being right up there.
But even this I wasn’t expecting, this being the Stacore isolating of an Entreq grounding box, and not even the most critical one.
So after a few days of reacquainting myself with the benefits of Entreq, I place my Silver Cleanus box (purely a passive high frequencies filter) alongside my cdp on Stacore Advanced.
I was open to some potential change, but again surprised in a wholly positive sense.
At this point in my upgrading/tweaking out path, I’m looking for what are tricky things to properly reconcile. That’s more agility and air, spatial cues, but not at the expense of lower mids texture, or bass warmth; and more natural detail, but not at the expense of detail for detail’s sake or artificially etched leading edges to notes.
Stacore really successful here, now helping a passive ground box, not even an active component.
Quite an achievement.
As I’ve bored the forum to death on more than one occasion, my new room acoustics are the open window that I view all changes thru, and have enabled subsequent changes to be dramatically successful, Stacore being right up there.
But even this I wasn’t expecting, this being the Stacore isolating of an Entreq grounding box, and not even the most critical one.
So after a few days of reacquainting myself with the benefits of Entreq, I place my Silver Cleanus box (purely a passive high frequencies filter) alongside my cdp on Stacore Advanced.
I was open to some potential change, but again surprised in a wholly positive sense.
At this point in my upgrading/tweaking out path, I’m looking for what are tricky things to properly reconcile. That’s more agility and air, spatial cues, but not at the expense of lower mids texture, or bass warmth; and more natural detail, but not at the expense of detail for detail’s sake or artificially etched leading edges to notes.
Stacore really successful here, now helping a passive ground box, not even an active component.
Quite an achievement.
You have got to be kidding me Marc or else your listening room must be shaking like disco on bamboo floor.
I can give you Bhudda statue to protect your room from vibration kharma and bad spirit. No need to put him on Stacore though
.Only kidding you, Marc. I admire your enthusiasm and love you just the way you are.
Tang
I would like to say that for those of you who is interested in managing vibration of their equipments, Stacore is a onestop shop.
Jarek can provide a total solution; audio rack incorporated with your choice of Stacore platform. I am saying here not intended to promote his business but to reflect my thoughts on audio rack that might be useful inputs for fellow audiophile who are think of buying audio rack for the moment.
Currently, I am using CMS rack which is very expensive. There were also many other very expensive rack that I considered before choosing CMS. To be honest, I chose CMS mainly because of aesthetic reason. They match very well with my room decoration. For me, it is no different from me buying Italian design furnitures. Others may find these very expensive racks improve the sound of their system. I am not here to bash any brands. But frankly, my ears are too inferior to hear any meaningful improvement in sound from these racks. I did try to ab my 65 kgs mono amps each on the Maxxum vs resting on 7 cm thick African granite. The process was pain in the butt and took too long time to unplug everything, remove the amps, put on different platform and connect all the wires back. At least fifteen minutes if you have another guy helping you. It will take you another 5-10 minutes to bring down your heart rate and calmly settle. Thats at least twenty minutes of ears resting which substantially effect my hearing memory. If there was any improvement in sound, it was not meaningful enough to really recognize. I once put my monos on these granite blocks before I went home. The next morning I came back and turned on my system, IT SOUNDED JUST AS GOOD AS EVER. This is just a one man experience. I blame it on my bad hearing memory. You guys have to becareful of my feedbacks on anything in this forum. Do question my listening ability at all time.
For me now, if I were to start over again I would just get a really strong, stable, high mass, good looking rack thats not such high price. Nice and simple enough to ensure me of good solid foundation for my equipments. If I want to ride the wave of vibration management, I could buy and add a specificly designed vibe mgt platform to the rack. I dont regret buying CMS rack. They met my objective ...but only at a skyhigh price. Stacore didnt exist back then.
The aesthetic of Stacore is my cup of tea. I read comments from Spirit somewhere that fit n finish is excellent. So, I contacted Jarek to do a really functional rack for my tt. His pricing imo is a lot more approachable than many other top racks. If you ask him to incorporate his Stacore platform to the rack, you will get something that is designed to look good as a package and you could even get a more interesting price. (I write this to pressure him to give good deal to friends here) This approach is more sensible to me. I dont know how effective his platform is but I want to try one. Once again, I am not saying all this to promoting Stacore. I dont have hidden interest with him. I write because this is ACTUALLY my first time thinking of price/benefit in audio and other reason I stated earlier. And May be I write because I have so much time today. My business sales target is already achieved and I still have a month left to sell extras....hehe. Life is good .
(Edited: I read what I wrote and I definitely sounded like I was promoting Stacore.)
Here are renderings of work in progress. The switch panel would be in front instead of on the side.
Tang
Jarek can provide a total solution; audio rack incorporated with your choice of Stacore platform. I am saying here not intended to promote his business but to reflect my thoughts on audio rack that might be useful inputs for fellow audiophile who are think of buying audio rack for the moment.
Currently, I am using CMS rack which is very expensive. There were also many other very expensive rack that I considered before choosing CMS. To be honest, I chose CMS mainly because of aesthetic reason. They match very well with my room decoration. For me, it is no different from me buying Italian design furnitures. Others may find these very expensive racks improve the sound of their system. I am not here to bash any brands. But frankly, my ears are too inferior to hear any meaningful improvement in sound from these racks. I did try to ab my 65 kgs mono amps each on the Maxxum vs resting on 7 cm thick African granite. The process was pain in the butt and took too long time to unplug everything, remove the amps, put on different platform and connect all the wires back. At least fifteen minutes if you have another guy helping you. It will take you another 5-10 minutes to bring down your heart rate and calmly settle. Thats at least twenty minutes of ears resting which substantially effect my hearing memory. If there was any improvement in sound, it was not meaningful enough to really recognize. I once put my monos on these granite blocks before I went home. The next morning I came back and turned on my system, IT SOUNDED JUST AS GOOD AS EVER. This is just a one man experience. I blame it on my bad hearing memory. You guys have to becareful of my feedbacks on anything in this forum. Do question my listening ability at all time.
For me now, if I were to start over again I would just get a really strong, stable, high mass, good looking rack thats not such high price. Nice and simple enough to ensure me of good solid foundation for my equipments. If I want to ride the wave of vibration management, I could buy and add a specificly designed vibe mgt platform to the rack. I dont regret buying CMS rack. They met my objective ...but only at a skyhigh price. Stacore didnt exist back then.
The aesthetic of Stacore is my cup of tea. I read comments from Spirit somewhere that fit n finish is excellent. So, I contacted Jarek to do a really functional rack for my tt. His pricing imo is a lot more approachable than many other top racks. If you ask him to incorporate his Stacore platform to the rack, you will get something that is designed to look good as a package and you could even get a more interesting price. (I write this to pressure him to give good deal to friends here
) This approach is more sensible to me. I dont know how effective his platform is but I want to try one. Once again, I am not saying all this to promoting Stacore. I dont have hidden interest with him. I write because this is ACTUALLY my first time thinking of price/benefit in audio and other reason I stated earlier. And May be I write because I have so much time today. My business sales target is already achieved and I still have a month left to sell extras....hehe. Life is good .(Edited: I read what I wrote and I definitely sounded like I was promoting Stacore.)
Here are renderings of work in progress. The switch panel would be in front instead of on the side.
Tang
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Tang, you are right to question my sanity, my floor, and are a good human being in deciding to forgive my sins. If Audiophilia is ever officially declared a religion, you will be it’s first great leader. If more likely it’s officially declared a mental illness, you will be it’s first great healing therapist.
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