Aesthetix Io Users Group

[redcars]

Hi Mike and others,

I have had my Io since 2000. It is now an Eclipse with volume controls and dual power supplies.

On the subject of support from Aesthetix, a couple of years ago I had what turned out to be a tube problem, but I did not recognize it at the time. Jim White phoned me three times over the Labor Day holiday with tips on sorting the problem.

Such customer support is exemplary and deserves every bit of praise these guys receive and deserve!

I now have an Aesthetix Romulus Eclipse, and am expecting delivery of my Aesthetix Metis line stage soon!
I should also add that, in addition to Glenn and Jim, dealer support is essential with Aesthetix. Carl Jerritts at Apex Audio has helped me with many details.


Mike, I don’t use the Aesthetix feet; mine is sitting on Taiko Daiza platforms. The control unit on Symposium Rollerblocks, the power supplies on BDR cones.


For break-in of the Eclipse, I used the Granite Audio phono burn-in CD per Glenn’s suggestion: https://www.musicdirect.com/store/granite-audio-phono-burn-in-cd
I would suggest at least 400 hours, including whatever break-in Aesthetix did.


I have replaced the tubes in V1-V6 of the control unit with Telefunken matched pairs (V1 & V2), and Mazda Gray Tops (NLA?) in V3-V6. I have Herbie’s tube dampers on the Mazdas, but the Telefunkens neither need or like them.

I tried a number of 6922s in V7, but ended up with the Eclipse supplied Electro Harmonix tubes sounding best.

Jim left the original, 20 year old 12AX7s in my power supplies, saying that they were better than what he had today!

The EL34s in the power supplies and the 6922s in the control unit (V7) are recommended for replacement in 3-5 years. (They can last up to 20 years, but the sound degrades)


I provided some additional information in post #82 of this thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/aesthetix-io-users-group.31402/page-5#post-680009

As others have testified, the Io requires patience and some maintenance, but the results are more than worthwhile. I love it!

Don

 

[oldvinyl]

Hi Mike and others,

I have had my Io since 2000. It is now an Eclipse with volume controls and dual power supplies.

On the subject of support from Aesthetix, a couple of years ago I had what turned out to be a tube problem, but I did not recognize it at the time. Jim White phoned me three times over the Labor Day holiday with tips on sorting the problem.

Such customer support is exemplary and deserves every bit of praise these guys receive and deserve!

I now have an Aesthetix Romulus Eclipse, and am expecting delivery of my Aesthetix Metis line stage soon!
I should also add that, in addition to Glenn and Jim, dealer support is essential with Aesthetix. Carl Jerritts at Apex Audio has helped me with many details.


Mike, I don’t use the Aesthetix feet; mine is sitting on Taiko Daiza platforms. The control unit on Symposium Rollerblocks, the power supplies on BDR cones.


For break-in of the Eclipse, I used the Granite Audio phono burn-in CD per Glenn’s suggestion: https://www.musicdirect.com/store/granite-audio-phono-burn-in-cd
I would suggest at least 400 hours, including whatever break-in Aesthetix did.


I have replaced the tubes in V1-V6 of the control unit with Telefunken matched pairs (V1 & V2), and Mazda Gray Tops (NLA?) in V3-V6. I have Herbie’s tube dampers on the Mazdas, but the Telefunkens neither need or like them.

I tried a number of 6922s in V7, but ended up with the Eclipse supplied Electro Harmonix tubes sounding best.

Jim left the original, 20 year old 12AX7s in my power supplies, saying that they were better than what he had today!

The EL34s in the power supplies and the 6922s in the control unit (V7) are recommended for replacement in 3-5 years. (They can last up to 20 years, but the sound degrades)


I provided some additional information in post #82 of this thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/aesthetix-io-users-group.31402/page-5#post-680009

As others have testified, the Io requires patience and some maintenance, but the results are more than worthwhile. I love it!

Don

Try out a set of KT-66s in place of the EL34s. They last longer and have more oomph in the bass. Actually, they help all the dynamics. It does require a spacer and longer screw since they are taller than the EL34.

 

[redcars]

Try out a set of KT-66s in place of the EL34s. They last longer and have more oomph in the bass. Actually, they help all the dynamics. It does require a spacer and longer screw since they are taller than the EL34.

Hi oldvinyl,
Thanks for the suggestion. Is there a specific brand of KT-66 you have in mind? NOS?

If I were to like these tubes, I expect that I would cut holes in the top covers of my (partial Eclipse) power supplies rather than adding spacers. I have experimented with removing the covers and also with removing screws from the covers. It sounds best, IMO, with all the screws tightened down and no chassis flexibility.

Best,
Don

 

[Mike Lavigne]

thanks everyone for the advice......not yet got very far as lots of other balls in the air. been playing the Io a few hours a day so far; it will be opaque and muddy for a time, then clear up and be a different nuanced creature a few hours later. right now it's delivering.

it's what i signed up for.

not yet moved it into my racks; so just some basic footers (not the stock feet) so far. but if i have the clearance i do have Daiza's to use. i want to live with it for a week or so not in the racks so i can easily access it as i learn about it.

 

[oldvinyl]

Hi oldvinyl,
Thanks for the suggestion. Is there a specific brand of KT-66 you have in mind? NOS?

If I were to like these tubes, I expect that I would cut holes in the top covers of my (partial Eclipse) power supplies rather than adding spacers. I have experimented with removing the covers and also with removing screws from the covers. It sounds best, IMO, with all the screws tightened down and no chassis flexibility.

Best,
Don

Don,

if you can find NOS GEC KT66, they are the best choice. Unfortunately, they have gotten quite expensive. Gold Lion reissue would be the pick for new stock. Not sure that NOS really matters for this application. It’s more about the power delivery.

 

[oldvinyl]

about 90 minutes in............running my Etsuro Gold MC cartridge mounted on the Durand Tosca gimbal arm, LFD phono cable, on the Saskia model two idler. the Io Eclipse is running fully open, 80% volume on the pots, into the XLR input on the darTZeel preamp.

right now some Lee Morgan jazz, and i'm not noticing any noise or other niggles as far as glaring artifacts. no obvious noise issues. no hum. big, bold and authoritative sound. letting it open up, it's relaxing as i go along. a great starting spot.

Mike -also try setting the Io volume controls at 11 am. That is closer to normal line level output to your preamp. You van experiment with how much gain from the Io versus how much from the preamp. If the Io is set too high, then the preamp is just an active attenuator.
Another configuration is go direct from the Io to your amps. Ultimately, that’s what the Io volume pots are for.

 

[mtemur]

Try out a set of KT-66s in place of the EL34s. They last longer and have more oomph in the bass. Actually, they help all the dynamics. It does require a spacer and longer screw since they are taller than the EL34.

I don't think KT-66s can be used instead of EL34s. KT-77s are more suitable.

 

[oldvinyl]

I don't think KT-66s can be used instead of EL34s. KT-77s are more suitable.

Well .... that would then change my experience for the past 22 years. Hate when that happens.
Please feel free to double check with Aesthetix. The power supplies do need to be updated (from what they were 20 years ago), the voltage regulators are a little heftier and can handle the KT66.

KT77 may be a good choice as well.

Please do a Google search. Lots of Io owners have used KT66s.

 

[mtemur]

Well .... that would then change my experience for the past 22 years. Hate when that happens.
Please feel free to double check with Aesthetix. The power supplies do need to be updated (from what they were 20 years ago), the voltage regulators are a little heftier and can handle the KT66.

KT77 may be a good choice as well.

Please do a Google search. Lots of Io owners have used KT66s.

Aesthetix may be more tolerant and works well with KT66s as you said. my reservation was specifically about the EL34 tube and it's equivalents. I simply wanted to point out the risk of damaging equipment but since you've checked with factory then there is no problem.

for example GZ37 tubes are not equivalents of GZ34s but can be used instead. when you have to use 4 GZ34 rectifiers on an amplifier it's very tempting to use relatively obtainable GZ37s but it's not recommended by the factory.

 

[spiritofmusic]

thanks everyone for the advice......not yet got very far as lots of other balls in the air. been playing the Io a few hours a day so far; it will be opaque and muddy for a time, then clear up and be a different nuanced creature a few hours later. right now it's delivering.

it's what i signed up for.

not yet moved it into my racks; so just some basic footers (not the stock feet) so far. but if i have the clearance i do have Daiza's to use. i want to live with it for a week or so not in the racks so i can easily access it as i learn about it.

Any more feedback, Mike? You know how we all love vicarious thrills.

 

[OGH]

My preamp is on repair, so for now, I use the Io (with volume) direct to my MA1 amps. Interesting. And certainly, very good.
NOS Philips Herleen in v1 and V2, and 6922 in v7. RCA NOS in v8.
So far - no changes in the power supply tubes, supplied by Aesthetix some years ago.
My wife likes it a lot, but I find it a bit thin, in our fairly large listening room, and with the more heavy type of music I like.
The Einstein gives it a bit more "muscle", even if it is not quite as "pure" - my impression, so far.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Any more feedback, Mike? You know how we all love vicarious thrills.

so far through last week, i've put 50 hours on the Io Eclipse. it's plateaued a bit....not in any negative sense, but not really noticeably changing. so scratching the surface. i like it's flow and liquidity, powerful bottom end, and bloom. more work to do.

for the last week i've been playing around with 'floating' speaker cables, which has stopped my Io Eclipse investigations as i need to work out the system changes before getting granular again with the Io.

also; a friend is going to loan me some tubes to try, so that's on the agenda.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, things percolating nicely. You'll let us know when it comes to the boil.

 

[marty]

Use a dampened Magic eraser pad dip your tubes into it 1-2 x and clean with a lint free cloth then 99% isopropyl alcohol and dry

I'm not sure I understand the Magic eraser dip technique. Why would you want to use and abrasive on the tube pins to remove light oxidation? That's not that different form using fine sandpaper? I'd be inclined to go the old fashioned way with Craig's Deoxit ProGold and a thorough final cleanup with a lint free cloth. Please explain the abrasion hypothesis for cleaning the tube pins. Thanks

 

[Kcin]

I'm not sure I understand the Magic eraser dip technique. Why would you want to use and abrasive on the tube pins to remove light oxidation? That's not that different form using fine sandpaper? I'd be inclined to go the old fashioned way with Craig's Deoxit ProGold and a thorough final cleanup with a lint free cloth. Please explain the abrasion hypothesis for cleaning the tube pins. Thanks

Hi there Marty,

First of all, anyone please use my techniques at your own risk. I have been collecting, testing and cleaning tubes for about 40 years.

Way back -when I got out of University the Engineering group I got hired into for industry took care of commissioning and decommissioning x-ray, welding and communication equipment from production environments. Trust me, de-oxit will not cut it. All that equipment in the early 80's was old but useful and it was vacuum tube based. The environment was harsh and we had the technicians mechanically clean the pins of tubes to get things working again. Now this is an extreme example- the principle is the same.

The tubes I covet were made in the 60's or earlier, the condition of the pins are most often very oxidized and dirty. No amount of de-oxit is going to work on them. You have to mechanically clean the pins. There are various techniques. The wonders of magic eraser works very well for this- its effect are immediate and cause no major abrasion like sand paper. I often use a Yamaha instrument polishing cloth to finish off - it has to be Yamaha green-and if I have real pin problem I might use a fine fibeglas pencil.

I actually took a old tube out of a caddy that I had bought with a bunch of Amperex NOS 7308s in it to demo for you.

Two dips in the Magic Eraser and its pretty clean. I show my Yamaha cloth and what comes off pins when I polish them. I did not use the cloth in my example below.

If you think my method is harsh , Jim McShane a tube dealer for decades out of Chicago area, may scare you even more so:

Re: cleaning tube pins - Jim McShane - Tubes Asylum

Re: cleaning tube pins - Jim McShane - Tubes Asylum

db.audioasylum.com

Proceed as you wish, I explain my complete method elsewhere on the forum- you can search for it .



Cheers!

 

[OGH]

I have now received my preamp back from repair. Not installed, yet.
To my surprise, I was told that some of the components in the preamp were low-grade and could be replaced with better ones. He could not do it on short notice, but maybe later (I said yes).
I wish it would be easy to A-B the Io through a preamp, versus direct to the amps. But in my rack it is not. Reinserting the preamp is hard work, changing the cabling, etc, since the rack is up against the wall. I hate this, when it comes to testing. But it is a living room, I dont want it too dominated by the sound system, and all is fine, when it stays the way it is.
Judgement, so far - the Io alone, with dual power supplies and volume, partial eclipse, sounds very good into the Atmasphere MA1 amps. I wonder, maybe I don't need the preamp. Maybe the "clean and pure" phono signal direct from the Io to the amps does sound better than the more powerful signal with the preamp in the chain. Not sure, yet.
One thing is clear. The Aux input on the Io often sounds very good. I use the Aux input for digital sources, and it sounds better than ever with my Teac NT-505. There, I am not at all sure if I need any preamp in between. If I understand this right, the Aux signal just goes through the third gain stage of the Io, while the phono signal goes through gain stage one and two as well.

 

[Kcin]

Listen carefully and judge accordingly after you switch back. It is easy to to get seduced by some artifacts that may not really be accurate in the strictest sense with the addition of the pre amp. Of Course, what you prefer is always correct.

 

[OGH]

Thanks Kcin - will do. The preamp is now back in the chain, and works ok, after the repair. My first impression, after listening some weeks with the Io direct to the MA-1 amps, is somewhat disappointing. Do I need this extra layer? More muscle, yes, but less clarity, maybe. Plus and minus. I know this from before. But now, the minus seemed larger. Yet, the preamp needs to be run some more, before I can tell. The repair shop man told me, they could change worn (and cheap) components to better ones - so maybe I will try that.

 

[mtemur]

Judgement, so far - the Io alone, with dual power supplies and volume, partial eclipse, sounds very good into the Atmasphere MA1 amps. I wonder, maybe I don't need the preamp. Maybe the "clean and pure" phono signal direct from the Io to the amps does sound better than the more powerful signal with the preamp in the chain. Not sure, yet.

IMHO you need a preamp in between phono and power amps. Unfortunately source components may not drive power amps satisfactorily. IME clean and pure concept mostly does not work and there is no shortcut. convenience and better sound are archenemies.

 

[oldvinyl]

IMHO you need a preamp in between phono and power amps. Unfortunately source components may not drive power amps satisfactorily. IME clean and pure concept mostly does not work and there is no shortcut. convenience and better sound are archenemies.

Please note that the Io has a built-in line stage. It is a phono stage + line stage. Meaning it is dual purpose.

Also further note that the Io can be configured with a line level input (such as CD player) and used as a preamp (with volume controls).

The first gain stages of the Io perform the RIAA equalization. The output stage is a line level driver. The output gain stage is where the line level input taps in (ie bypassing the high gain needed for a cartridge and also bypassing RIAA equalization).

As noted on the Aesthetix web site:
Volume Control
The Io may optionally be configured with volume controls. This allows the Io to drive a power amplifier directly, negating the need for an intervening line stage. If using a line stage, the front panel volume controls are used to adjust gain.

When configured with volume controls, a further option exists: Two phono inputs or one phono input and one line input (CD player, tuner, etc).

Some Io users do use a preamp in conjunction with an Io with volume controls. If not set correctly, this just results in the preamp being an active attenuator. This is a matter of preference, or perhaps beliefs.

I have used the Io with volume controls directly to my amps for 22+ years with all pleasure and no problems.

There's lots of accurate information about the Io on Aesthetix's web site and through the use of internet search engines.