Alsyvox - Hi end Munich 2022 - your thoughts

[Zero000]

Thanks Justin. I am nearly there to listen this weekend. Just be testing in mono this evening. Deciding what voltages to use etc.

In terms of the room treatment. It was out of interest. Actually I have no doubt that what you have chosen will not only look great but also really improve the rooms acoustics. At the end of the day, you can add a few bass traps if (and only if) you wanted. I think we can get caught up in all this nonsense when truth is it is your home so aesthetics are paramount.

Bill thanks. But you do need to get yourself round here, if only for educational purposes.

I really don't think there's anyone in the country with a really well sorted pair of Duettas. As they stand now, they are quite plainly ridiculous value for money. Insane, in fact. Especially compared to Alsyvox's best.

In some ways, I hear parameters that are better than Caravaggio's. In a pair of tricked out Duettas. Honestly.

As a long standing horn lover they may not be for you. So as I say - educational.

They may take a few weeks to recover from, though

 

[christoph]

Measurements against what reference?

Have a good think about that. Deeply. We both know there is no standard. But hold on, I might claim one to pretend there is. The patent on this reference room costs £4,973,871

Bill the last speaker shot I saw on your main thread looks great. Respect.

There certainly ARE measurements!

These are the acoustic curtains I have in the main living and listening room:

STREAMER classic

STREAMER classic has his own character. An exceptionally efficient absorber (aw 0.8)

www.douglas-textiles.ch

Scroll all the way down for a graph and some more in depth measurements and infos.

https://www.douglas-textiles.ch/fileadmin/filesharing/acoustic/acoustic_collection/PDF_Downloads/ISO_354_Reverberation_Room/HR_STREAMER_classic_d.pdf

 

[flyer]

Attn: Bobbin

Sorry seems like I missed it... so you have the Alsyvox! Superb stuff mate, absolutely fantastic!

Which model do you own, and have you done the out-board crossovers as yet? They're bit pricey but worth it in my opinion. Takes the overall performance to yet another level. Also what amplifiers are you using?

I just had the wonderful opportunity of listening to these recently with the out-boards, and they were the new Botichelli-X. The owner is using the Bricasti M28 monoblocks, also on his other multi-panel / multi-driver speakers. Said he recently auditioned the A-vox driven by full line of Aries Ceret gear, and was mighty impressed! So, I think he's going to let go of the Bricasti and settle for either an integrated version of the Aries Ceret. I'm not sure if they make one though but he's very keen to keep the Bricasti preamp and partner it with the A-C monoblocks but that pricing is super high! So maybe the reason to consider the integrated version I guess. Either way, that would be another superb combination.

Anyway, that was a life changing moment for me, hence the slight over-enthusiasm at the moment...

Cheers, RJ

A bit late to reply on this post but thought I'd post a picture of the show we did in the Netherlands with the Essentia monoblocks from Aries Cerat with the Taiko Extreme and the Primary Control Kinea sources.



Regarding your comment on getting an integrated to drive the Botticelli, it is worth mentioning Aries Cerat premiered the newly developed Aperio integrated amplifier with 35Watt pure class-A single stage triodefet powered. Must equally be a bliss icw the Tintoretto or the Botticelli putting the openness, effortless musicality and grunt of the AlsyVox and the triodefet so on display!

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Ah! Nice one indeed! I think that could well be the one he wants to get, since the monoblocks are really pricey over here down unda or even if he wanted to ship from Greece. Either way it's going to cost a fortune, so the integrated version will probably suit just fine. Was taken up pretty well by the Aries Ceret demo, which I also felt was awe-inspiring when I first heard these in Spore few years back. There's something quite different that these amplifiers do, and whatever it's doing, it's doing really well, I mean at a top notch level that's very hard to surpass let alone match!

Now that would be one truly outstanding combination, Aries Ceret with Alsyvox, guess it doesn't get any better than this. Unless it was CJ... ah! I'm biased towards CJ, just my 50cts worth maties. Of course the ART108A's (160w of Class A) is definitely not required on such a speaker as the Alsyvox but I guess my trusted dealer mate has his reasons.

Either way you gotta luv it!
WOOF!!!
Cheers to Alsyvox!
RJ

 

[cjfrbw]

Brad (morricab), have you heard these Aries Cerat solid state "class-A single stage triodefet" amps yet? I tried to ask you this question another thread but got booted into the ether and don't know if you answered.

 

[morricab]

Brad (morricab), have you heard these Aries Cerat solid state "class-A single stage triodefet" amps yet? I tried to ask you this question another thread but got booted into the ether and don't know if you answered.

Yes and they were rather spectacular. I am seriously considering the new Aperio integrated. Stavros has really figured out how fuse triode and SS into behaving like a single element that measures just like a triode. This huge amp only has a single stage per channel! The rest is mostly power supply.

 

[christoph]

Yes and they were rather spectacular. I am seriously considering the new Aperio integrated. Stavros has really figured out how fuse triode and SS into behaving like a single element that measures just like a triode. This huge amp only has a single stage per channel! The rest is mostly power supply.

How much is that Integrated?
And how heavy is it?

 

[cjfrbw]

Thank you. I was thinking they were something akin to a high power version of the First Watt SIT 1 and 2, at least from the description of the topology. I wonder what device they use, since I think TOKIN are the main manufacturers who made high power SIT.

Of course, there are also ways of bootstrapping MOSFET to behave with triode curves.

 

[morricab]

How much is that Integrated?
And how heavy is it?

Something around 40K I think and it's over 100kg for the two boxes

 

[christoph]

Something around 40K I think and it's over 100kg for the two boxes

Double ouch and and another ouch

 

[cjfrbw]

Double ouch and and another ouch

I know. Every time I hear these weights, I think of the thing falling on my toe.

 

[christoph]

I know. Every time I hear these weights, I think of the thing falling on my toe.

The first ouch definitely prevents me from being in danger of the second ouch

 

[Bobvin]

I know. Every time I hear these weights, I think of the thing falling on my toe.

I am happy my amp is not where I might stumble on it in the dark. The amp is not going to move, my toe would be the worst for it (or my shin — ouch!)

 

[flyer]

Something around 40K I think and it's over 100kg for the two boxes

The top chassis weighs 75 kgs and the bottom chassis (PSU) is 25 kgs, you can of course put them side by side as well.

 

[Purasound]

Ah! Nice one indeed! I think that could well be the one he wants to get, since the monoblocks are really pricey over here down unda or even if he wanted to ship from Greece. Either way it's going to cost a fortune, so the integrated version will probably suit just fine. Was taken up pretty well by the Aries Ceret demo, which I also felt was awe-inspiring when I first heard these in Spore few years back. There's something quite different that these amplifiers do, and whatever it's doing, it's doing really well, I mean at a top notch level that's very hard to surpass let alone match!

Now that would be one truly outstanding combination, Aries Ceret with Alsyvox, guess it doesn't get any better than this. Unless it was CJ... ah! I'm biased towards CJ, just my 50cts worth maties. Of course the ART108A's (160w of Class A) is definitely not required on such a speaker as the Alsyvox but I guess my trusted dealer mate has his reasons.

Either way you gotta luv it!
WOOF!!!
Cheers to Alsyvox!
RJ

Hi RJ,
Just saw your post and thought I would mention that our Australian local pricing is a direct conversion of the pricing set in euro by Aries Cerat.
Due to currency fluctuations we quote the exact price at the time of enquiry/purchase.
The Essentia monoblocks msrp of 40,500euro and the Aperio msrp is 45,000euro.
Whilst there is a perception that local pricing is inflated compared to overseas that is certainly not the case with our offerings.

We are fortunate to be taking delivery of the Aperio Integrated and a set of Alsyvox in the coming months.
Im sure the combination will be something very special.
I hope you can come have a listen sometime.

Kind regards

 

[Big Dog RJ]

G'day Purasound,
That's great news!
Yes, the norm is especially with currency conversion in $USD... or the Pound, by the time it lands here it's through the roof! Hence, parallel imports are taking place... of which personally I wouldn't ever engage in.

There were a pair of CJ ART300's (CJ's top of the line) that goes for around 30grand $US, when it landed here it was around 50grand. So the person who was really keen on it got the pair from overseas at under 30grand, all done! However, the Aus importers for CJ are not honouring warranty for this chap, stating that unfortunately he didn't purchase local... and life goes on.

I'm very keen on CJ's newest monoblocks, the ART108A's- Class A 160w but they're close to 50grand $US which would be around 75grand $Aus, so I'm not very inclined. I'll have to give it some thought. In the meantime, I've already managed to mod my CJ monoblocks to Class A 60w including mods done on my preamp, which took over two years to complete. Now, driving the CLX's is my pride & joy! Hard earned money put together over 15 years, I finally achieved my dream system. So I'm good for now.

OTOH, I would certainly like to audition the Aries Ceret gear with Alsyvox, since this particular combination I've yet to experience.
I've auditioned at length the Botichelli's driven by the ART300's partnered with the Momentum preamp, it was superb! And this very combination on the CLX's as well, which has been my reference point to date. Of lately a good mate of mine has just taken delivery of the ART108A's and has driven both the Botichelli-X and CLX's and claims that both are on a further dimension of performance and quality since my last demo. So I'm eagerly planning a trip next Feb or early Dec to listen to these two systems, and learn the differences in how they perform.

In the meantime, when you do happen to receive both these products, it would a revelation to experience! I'm sure I'll learn something new yet again, it's always a learning curve and wonderful to experience these top level systems in person, rather than read just reviews...
So that's a definite, will be in touch.

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

 

[Taiko Audio]

Not sure if Emile will see this thread but if he does he can chime in as he had a LOT to do with the design of the Raffaello's as Emile LOVES big soundtrack and show tunes songs at high volume levels in a large space. You can see/hear the Raffaello's at the new Taiko headquarters being driven with big power.

Sorry, I totally missed this thread till now.

1) The Caravaggio has a 94dB sensitivity down to 22Hz (that is a 0dB value, not -6dB)
2) The Caravaggio + subwoofers have a 95dB sensitivity down to 20Hz
3) The Raffaello has a 97dB flat to 25Hz or 98dB with a lowered low bass sensitivity selectable on the crossover. You can also configure it to have a 96dB sensitivity with a low bass boost.
4) You can add subwoofers to the Raffaello and get 98dB down to 20Hz

This gives you more options to drive really large and/or difficult rooms with lower powered amplifiers in a cost no object scenario.

In most rooms, even very large rooms, the Caravaggio + subwoofers simply overpower the room. I’d say up to 80m2 or so you’d just use the Caravaggio solo, so you have a 94dB efficiency, and indeed for me, in that size room you’d want 60-80 watts of minimum power. This can also apply to smaller rooms depending on how absorptive they are.

We now have a new 112m2 listening room which the Raffaello + subwoofers should thrive in with a good 30-40 watts of amplifier power at a 98dB efficiency.

Regarding the Munich show, indeed the original plan was to go with the JA-80 amplifiers and Daniel tested them with the Raffaellos before the show, but there was a problem with them. That left us with the Jadis I-70 and the Jadis JA-30. The Jadis I-70 was very powerful and more neutral at the expense of a bit of refinement. If it were up to me we would’ve used the I-70, however, our room had a boarded up double door in the wall to the adjacent room which was very leaky. That led to a lot of banging on the wall and frustrated visits from our neighbours when playing at even low to moderate levels. So we ended up using the JA-30 and adjusted a few things to reduce low bass output to make it through the show in harmony with our neighbours. So it was purposefully set up a bit “light” for low bass output.

 

[Purasound]

G'day Purasound,
That's great news!
Yes, the norm is especially with currency conversion in $USD... or the Pound, by the time it lands here it's through the roof! Hence, parallel imports are taking place... of which personally I wouldn't ever engage in.

There were a pair of CJ ART300's (CJ's top of the line) that goes for around 30grand $US, when it landed here it was around 50grand. So the person who was really keen on it got the pair from overseas at under 30grand, all done! However, the Aus importers for CJ are not honouring warranty for this chap, stating that unfortunately he didn't purchase local... and life goes on.

I'm very keen on CJ's newest monoblocks, the ART108A's- Class A 160w but they're close to 50grand $US which would be around 75grand $Aus, so I'm not very inclined. I'll have to give it some thought. In the meantime, I've already managed to mod my CJ monoblocks to Class A 60w including mods done on my preamp, which took over two years to complete. Now, driving the CLX's is my pride & joy! Hard earned money put together over 15 years, I finally achieved my dream system. So I'm good for now.

OTOH, I would certainly like to audition the Aries Ceret gear with Alsyvox, since this particular combination I've yet to experience.
I've auditioned at length the Botichelli's driven by the ART300's partnered with the Momentum preamp, it was superb! And this very combination on the CLX's as well, which has been my reference point to date. Of lately a good mate of mine has just taken delivery of the ART108A's and has driven both the Botichelli-X and CLX's and claims that both are on a further dimension of performance and quality since my last demo. So I'm eagerly planning a trip next Feb or early Dec to listen to these two systems, and learn the differences in how they perform.

In the meantime, when you do happen to receive both these products, it would a revelation to experience! I'm sure I'll learn something new yet again, it's always a learning curve and wonderful to experience these top level systems in person, rather than read just reviews...
So that's a definite, will be in touch.

Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ

Hi RJ,
Look forward to having a listen with you one day.

Its unfortunate that your friend isn't able to buy locally and hence not receive product after sales support. I work with my partners to ensure amplifiers are built to our 240v specification. Buying overseas means running the product at a overseas voltage. Not a ideal situation. Especially for tubes amps.

Enjoy your sunday!

 

[Joe Cohen]

From our PranaWire Distributor in France listening to our custom PranaWire Arhat Jumper Cables for Alsyvox:

"Joe

I warm up the audio system for 7 hours and may be the cables required more burn in to deliver the best.
The sound of the cables taken as a whole, is really what I asked, ultra detailed but more important neutrality a sense of body, 3 D imaging is really rewarding.
Ambiant cues are sprayed into the audio room very much like in a real concert hall, absolutely stunning.
The sounds at far end of the orchestra are very precise, without any curtain effect.
I find the treble and midrange a little more extended than the first time I received them, probably due that all cable are now in the right direction.
This gives a sense of naturalness but also a perfect restitution on some voice that can « overload » a bit with lesser cable, eg. Youn Sun Nah Voyage - track My Bye at 2min 30. Impressive, having such voice at home is what is ultra high end sense!
The new bass jumpers are worth the idea to have more gauge. Bass have more weight, is more dynamic and seems to contain lower frequencies that were a touch decreased on the previous smaller gauge.
On drums, piano, guitar and cellos for examples, the lower range of frequencies is really a wonder now on the full ribbon speakers.
I also listened to contemporary music, not so easy to play, and it’s an immersion in the performance. Music seems purer and with less audio artifacts, that detracts for a live performance.

Thank you very much for putting all your talent in this cable project.

Philippe

 

[LL21]

Fantastic commentary here...questions about placement:

- Understand from the reading here and elsewhere that the sides of the room are less relevant and in fact in slightly narrower rooms, the panel science might give panels an advantage
- As for front wall...do these need to be far away from the front wall? Room is 11' x 15' - 18' x 40' (across open plan/dual room space) but the speakers are expect to be at 26' with slight inward curve of a quasi corner before it opens into the adjacent room.