America Shuts Down!

Tim, I largely agree with you. (Read that again, I largely agree with you. ;))

My one major quibble is that defense spending as a percentage of the economy has been declining for decades. Let's do the thought experiement and eliminate all defense spending (because after all we don't have enemies, just friends whose grievences we haven't addressed); it only resets the budget baseline without changing the not so long-term budget diaster which is driven by entitlements. We can afford a social safety net and I would submit that most American's want and believe we should have a safety net. What we can't afford is giving entitlements to everyone, i.e. everyone can't be a net importer of tax dollars.

Folks on the right will have to reconcile themselves that a majority of American's want and believe that we should have a safety net and if they want to cut government spending, they need to man up and tell us exactly what they would cut. Politicians on the left need to grow a collective pair and come clean that even the current entitlement state costs a great deal more than we are currently paying (i.e. they are not 'investments') and can't be paid for by the 1%; everyone's taxes will have to go up; possibly a lot.

I would quibble with your characterization of business taxes; business don't pay taxes, they collect them for the government from their customers. Politicians like it because it allows government to collect more taxes from individuals but hide the real source of the tax; but we can haggle about that on another thread ;).

And I largely agree with you. I take exception to the very last part, because it assumes that all costs of business are directly reflected in consumer prices, which is, just below the surface, a dismissal of market forces. You don't get to raise prices because your margins narrowed, regardless of the cause. You get to raise prices when the market will pay the higher price, or you get to fail. Social Security needs means testing. Healthcare reform needs to drive down the price of healthcare, and then the overwhelming majority of people need to pat for it themselves. There's your entitlements control. Next? Unnecessary wars, unwanted world policing, nation building, despot-propping...there's a whole lot of money spent -- billions -- on international interference that is not in the defense budget. But yes, "entitlements" are the biggest piece of the pie. They should be. We should spend more on our own quality of life than we spend on the rest of the world. I pat my taxes without much complaint. But I don't do it to build roads in Iraq or buy weapons for the Israelis. I don't do it to clear a path through the rubble for American business interests abroad. Let them clear their own path and put it in the price of my gas. I can choose to drive less.

Tim
 
Hopefully not too many people will die of cancer in the U.S.A. because of the hold on their treatment and medication.

Better to end this sooner than too late. ...October 17 is the next date to watch on our calendar. ...In two weeks.
 
And I largely agree with you. I take exception to the very last part, because it assumes that all costs of business are directly reflected in consumer prices, which is, just below the surface, a dismissal of market forces. You don't get to raise prices because your margins narrowed, regardless of the cause. You get to raise prices when the market will pay the higher price, or you get to fail. Social Security needs means testing. Healthcare reform needs to drive down the price of healthcare, and then the overwhelming majority of people need to pat for it themselves. There's your entitlements control. Next? Unnecessary wars, unwanted world policing, nation building, despot-propping...there's a whole lot of money spent -- billions -- on international interference that is not in the defense budget. But yes, "entitlements" are the biggest piece of the pie. They should be. We should spend more on our own quality of life than we spend on the rest of the world. I pat my taxes without much complaint. But I don't do it to build roads in Iraq or buy weapons for the Israelis. I don't do it to clear a path through the rubble for American business interests abroad. Let them clear their own path and put it in the price of my gas. I can choose to drive less.

Tim

+1

I would add that a very good day would be when all lobbying is made illegal. On other thing, I guess it's beneficial that the health care discussion continues, as it definitely seems to have taken away from the anti-abortion rhetoric that was beginning to flare up again!:D
 
Lobbying is fine. All we need to do to counteract any negatives about it is to elect statesmen with integrity, rather than sociopathic politicians. After all, the current predatory influence peddling in Washington is a symptom of the disease, not the root cause. I believe has a lot more in common with organized crime than with lobbying in the classical sense.

As Pogo once said, "Chicken Little was right; we was had."
 
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Lobbying is fine. All we need to do to counteract any negatives about it is to elect statesmen with integrity, rather than sociopathic politicians."

Please do inform us as to how you would go about doing that! In the meantime, like I said, IMO lobbying needs to be illegal.
 
Please do inform us as to how you would go about doing that! In the meantime, like I said, IMO lobbying needs to be illegal.

Agreed. We're over 3 Bil spent a year over the last several years now on lobbying. If you ever wonder why some bills, policies and provisos make no sense at all from a benefit to the general public standpoint pass (or those such as increased regulation on Wall St don't), look at the $$ spent. If you think greed and desire for power are a part of human nature, it's the laws that have to change. On less cerebral level, our system requires major $$ to get elected, so those that provide the big $$ obviously have the influence. Russ Feingold, as an example of someone who ran on his principles about campaign finance (read integrity) couldn't get reelected.
 
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http://gawker.com/gop-congressman-m..._source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Over here we are amazed by this kind of douchebaggery. Boehner was responsible for the shutdown.
He then berates a park ranger for not letting veterans in, when the Park Service is closed because of the government shutdown?

That guy in question was Rep. Randy Neugebauer. ...Tea Party congressman. ... GOP

- Every day I am outraged more and more by what we see and hear from these highly representatives of the nation.
Today again we saw two senators caught talking to each other from a hot microphone; Rand Paul was one of them. ...It was disgusting!
{The two Republican senators were Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul}

=> http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/03/rand-and-mcconnell-caught-talking-strategy-on-hot-mic/

______________________


>>> And the Americans (the people) cannot do anything about it???!!!
This is not what I call serving the American people, America. ...Who put them there these men of no good at all!?! ...Very dangerous people!
Simply put; they deserve to be put in jail for all the troubles that they bring to the society!
Is there a law that protects Americans against the worst kind of people on the planet?

And did you watch that CNN interview today of Sen. Harry Reid?
 
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McConnell stated repeatedly in Obama' first four years that his only goal was to ensure that Obama didn't get reelected. Don't see how one can collaborate with that attitude.
 
Lobbying is fine. All we need to do to counteract any negatives about it is to elect statesmen with integrity, rather than sociopathic politicians. After all, the current predatory influence peddling in Washington is a symptom of the disease, not the root cause. I believe has a lot more in common with organized crime than with lobbying in the classical sense.

As Pogo once said, "Chicken Little was right; we was had."

Lobbying is bribery. Along with the computer modeled efficiency of gerrymandering and a handful of other sins, it has hijacked reprsentative democracy, which no longer represents the will of the people, but the will of the ideologues and the biggest contributors. They are the reason why statesmen of integrity so seldom make it to the national stage to be considered for election.

Tim
 
And what do you know!
...That video of Republican senators Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell caught on tape that I just posted yesterday (previous page) has been removed from the entire Internet and public media!

That tells me something (that I already knew for a very very very long time already) about all those dirty tactics and politics, and politicians.

Tim, there is simply no integrity at the highest levels of our societies. ...Very unfortunate but real.
 
All good and true but in the end ,....you get what you vote for ,same goes for europe

Guys with integrity are unelectable. They will be shred to pieces. If I was a US citizen I would personally vote for Ralph Nader. You may not agree with all of his politics, but his integrity is impeccable.
 
All good and true but in the end ,....you get what you vote for ,same goes for Europe

...And Canada, and Italy, and Brazil, and Argentina, and Russia, and Japan, and China, and Syria, and Iran, and Chile, and Peru, and Australia, and Spain, and Greece, and Colombia, and everywhere else on this planet where there are elections.

Yeah, we got nothing because we get no choice.

It is very sad really because we vote for our preferred corrupted politician! ...The one that suits us best.
What a sick way of living in our developed societies!

It's like grocery stores and restaurants and fast food premises; everyone needs to eat, and some of that food will make you sick if you eat it.
 
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Ron paul would get my vote

Paul has compromised his integrity by using the GOP platform to run, while disavowing GOP policies. He does this because as an independent libertarian he does not have a chance in hell to get elected for anything. This is a major compromise of integrity in my estimation....

This would be like ralph Nader running as a democrat, when what he really believes is the tweedlee dee and tweedlee dum hypothesis.
 
As I was driving yesterday, I noticed nothing is different than before the government shut down!!! I am sure there is impact on many but it is remarkable how little the government does for us day to day that when it shuts down, you wouldn't even know it if you had not read the news. State, county and city services were a great help in this regard.....
 
As I was driving yesterday, I noticed nothing is different than before the government shut down!!! I am sure there is impact on many but it is remarkable how little the government does for us day to day that when it shuts down, you wouldn't even know it if you had not read the news. State, county and city services were a great help in this regard.....

That is a bit of a red herring. If they shut down all the elementary schools in the country and you had not kids of elementary school age, you would hardly notice. They could even shut down fire brigades and you would never know about it. Until your house goes up in smoke ......
 

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