American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)

[Stacore]

Dear Tang,

Thank you for this very concise write up comparing cutting edge TT's. Very very interesting! Esp. your comment on sometimes lame sound. I witnessed that several times as well in resolving systems after having cleaned mechanical noise - some records sound worse than they used just because recording/mastering errors become more obvious. From what you report, looks like David has come really close to the Holy Grail - no sound on it's own.
Congratulations to David and you, a stellar design! It's an honor to be a small part of it.

Cheers,


Cheers,

 

[ddk]

I have been listening mostly to AS2000 since its arrival. I really enjoy music presented by different carts of mine through the AS2000. Just this past few days I have revisited my other two tts, the 927 and the AF1P, and heard so many a/b/c testings between them with various carts and classical records. I dont think I ever wrote or made description on intrinsic nature of AS2000. So what does it sound like?

It sounds like "nothing." I dont think that it is a tt for everyone and that everone would like its sound. Imo it has the least sound of its own. Even the famous 927 has a consistent character. If you like the powerful energetic drive of 927 at all time look eslewhere. If you like the wide, deep, layering staging of AF1 at all time look else where. The AS2000 doesnot "please" you with these characteristics all the time. To me it is a tt that presents the sound of a recording as that particular vinyl has to offer in a very natural manner. So the two particular examples of features I mentioned can be found on AS2000 when they are in the vinyl. I dont know what David is going to say about what I am about to say but it is true that I often find substandard or even lame sound listening to AS2000 playing vinyls. You will read Bonzo report saying this record sound so much better on this tt than that tt. That record sounds worse with that tt than this tt kind of comment. What AS2000 does consistently is giving a super high resolution sound to all vinyls and play them as they are. Among tts I own, it not only best reveals quality of recording and pressing but also the tt that reveals most differences between cartridges.

Tang

Dear Tang,

You pretty much nailed the principle design ethos behind the AS-2000, the Ethos of Nothing; NOTHING Added & NOTHING Lost. The AS-2000 is designed to be the ultimate retrieval machine, accurate, neutral and natural. It digs deep into the grooves like nothing else can retrieving information that one never thought existed in those grooves and presented wholly with minimum added character to the arm and cartridge for playback, that's why you hear such clear differences among your cartridges. I called the rack The Nothing for the same reason, it's designed to do nothing to add or interfere with the playback system on top, your Stacore follows the same principle. You're correct about poor recordings, they should and do sound poorly but I'm sure that you'll find previously dismissed decent average recordings to sound more than credible and musical, as they should.

Thank you for enthusiasm & friendship, much appreciated!

david

 

[Lagonda]

I have been listening mostly to AS2000 since its arrival. I really enjoy music presented by different carts of mine through the AS2000. Just this past few days I have revisited my other two tts, the 927 and the AF1P, and heard so many a/b/c testings between them with various carts and classical records. I dont think I ever wrote or made description on intrinsic nature of AS2000. So what does it sound like?

It sounds like "nothing." I dont think that it is a tt for everyone and that everone would like its sound. Imo it has the least sound of its own. Even the famous 927 has a consistent character. If you like the powerful energetic drive of 927 at all time look eslewhere. If you like the wide, deep, layering staging of AF1 at all time look else where. The AS2000 doesnot "please" you with these characteristics all the time. To me it is a tt that presents the sound of a recording as that particular vinyl has to offer in a very natural manner. So the two particular examples of features I mentioned can be found on AS2000 when they are in the vinyl. I dont know what David is going to say about what I am about to say but it is true that I often find substandard or even lame sound listening to AS2000 playing vinyls. You will read Bonzo report saying this record sound so much better on this tt than that tt. That record sounds worse with that tt than this tt kind of comment. What AS2000 does consistently is giving a super high resolution sound to all vinyls and play them as they are. Among tts I own, it not only best reveals quality of recording and pressing but also the tt that reveals most differences between cartridges.

Tang

Just ad some tubes somewhere in the signalchain ! Ups not in your case. Try a nice SPU or Koetsu to beautify those boring recordings. David or Cristian will know which one will be right for you.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Not classy, Lagonda!

[female-demeaning photo deleted]

 

[Lagonda]

Not classy, Lagonda!

[female-demeaning photo deleted]

Sorry Ron, she looked good to me.

 

[Tango]

Dear Tang,

Thank you for this very concise write up comparing cutting edge TT's. Very very interesting! Esp. your comment on sometimes lame sound. I witnessed that several times as well in resolving systems after having cleaned mechanical noise - some records sound worse than they used just because recording/mastering errors become more obvious. From what you report, looks like David has come really close to the Holy Grail - no sound on it's own.
Congratulations to David and you, a stellar design! It's an honor to be a small part of it.

Cheers,


Cheers,

Dear Jarek,

We are in this together. Thanks so much for putting time and effort in building this rack for me. When all design parameters are consistent the result is very very fruitful. Hope one day I can have a custom rack for my EMT .

Kidest regards,
Tang

 

[awsmone]

I have been listening mostly to AS2000 since its arrival. I really enjoy music presented by different carts of mine through the AS2000. Just this past few days I have revisited my other two tts, the 927 and the AF1P, and heard so many a/b/c testings between them with various carts and classical records. I dont think I ever wrote or made description on intrinsic nature of AS2000. So what does it sound like?

It sounds like "nothing." I dont think that it is a tt for everyone and that everone would like its sound. Imo it has the least sound of its own. Even the famous 927 has a consistent character. If you like the powerful energetic drive of 927 at all time look eslewhere. If you like the wide, deep, layering staging of AF1 at all time look else where. The AS2000 doesnot "please" you with these characteristics all the time. To me it is a tt that presents the sound of a recording as that particular vinyl has to offer in a very natural manner. So the two particular examples of features I mentioned can be found on AS2000 when they are in the vinyl. I dont know what David is going to say about what I am about to say but it is true that I often find substandard or even lame sound listening to AS2000 playing vinyls. You will read Bonzo report saying this record sound so much better on this tt than that tt. That record sounds worse with that tt than this tt kind of comment. What AS2000 does consistently is giving a super high resolution sound to all vinyls and play them as they are. Among tts I own, it not only best reveals quality of recording and pressing but also the tt that reveals most differences between cartridges.

Tang

Tang Great summary
I understand what your trying say
As one of the few people who owns all three much like David your not biased by ownership Love

David’sunderstanding of effect materials on sound is most impressive

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

just curious...the dog ..is it yours? looks like a miniature Schnauzer

 

[Tango]

David’sunderstanding of effect materials on sound is most impressive

Indeed awsmone. Bonzo and I were just talking about the nuances that AS2000 reveals are in different league from the 927 and Af1P. This attribute cannot possibly come without the right materials he used in the top platter.

Tang

 

[awsmone]

Indeed awsmone. Bonzo and I were just talking about the nuances that AS2000 reveals are in different league from the 927 and Af1P. This attribute cannot possibly come without the right materials he used in the top platter.

Tang

It’s fascinating that great designers like Kondo and David have this feel for the materials

 

[bonzo75]

It’s fascinating that great designers like Kondo and David have this feel for the materials

Kondo?

 

[awsmone]

Indeed awsmone. Bonzo and I were just talking about the nuances that AS2000 reveals are in different league from the 927 and Af1P. This attribute cannot possibly come without the right materials he used in the top platter.

Tang

I think also the high mass means timing intervention is minimal
Although the Monaco uses a different high tech approach i suspect minimal intervention is better than any intervention if speed is stable at a change in frequency over time level of human scale/perception

 

[awsmone]

Kondo?

Not talking Kondo about turntables but influence of materials eg silver on sound etc

 

[bonzo75]

Not talking Kondo about turntables but influence of materials eg silver on sound etc

Funny you had them in the same sentence because ask David what he thinks about Silver on Sound. He will scream SoS

 

[awsmone]

Funny you had them in the same sentence because ask David what he thinks about Silver on Sound. He will scream SoS

Ha ha

I share Davids silver concerns it wasn’t meant as a taste equivalency but a material influence inquiry

 

[microstrip]

(...) From what you report, looks like David has come really close to the Holy Grail - no sound on it's own. (...)

Not at all related to David or the AS2000, but I do not think that the Holy Grail in sound reproduction is no sound on it's own.

And no way I can conclude from Tang comments on the turntable sound on this great thread that the AS 2000 has no sound on it's own. Surely IMHO, YMMV.

 

[PeterA]

Indeed awsmone. Bonzo and I were just talking about the nuances that AS2000 reveals are in different league from the 927 and Af1P. This attribute cannot possibly come without the right materials he used in the top platter.

Tang

Tang, I understand that Kedar heard the AS2000 with all 3012Rs. What arms were used in his comparisons with the EMT and AF1? Were any of the arms and cartridges consistent? Could some of the differences you ascribe to the tables also be a result of the cartridge/arm combinations you used? How are you and Keder confident about isolating the signatures of the tables, or is it a more general thing whereby regardless of arm/cartridge used, these sonic traits of the three tables came through anyway? Did Kedar hear the Kronos?

 

[PeterA]

Not at all related to David or the AS2000, but I do not think that the Holy Grail in sound reproduction is no sound on it's own.

And no way I can conclude from Tang comments on the turntable sound on this great thread that the AS 2000 has no sound on it's own. Surely IMHO, YMMV.

Fransisco, Jarek is saying the Holy Grail is "no sound of its own." He wrote that it "looks like David has come really close" to that Holy Grail. Jarek is not claiming that David has achieved the Holy Grail, nor is he claiming that the AS2000 has no sound of its own. That is why he qualified it by writing "really close". "Really close" is a relative term, and Tang is using it in a relative way because his comments are based on comparisons to his other two tables which have more of a "sound" in his opinion. I don't see any inconsistency with any of this. It is based on Tang's listening impressions and on Jarek's reading of them. And David is agreeing that "no sound of its own" is one of his design goals with the AS2000. A goal which he seems to be "really close" to achieving.

I would love to hear the table one day, but I think it would be very difficult to isolate it's own sound from that of the rest of the system. The few lucky owners, and David, are in the best position to make such an assessment.

 

[bonzo75]

Tang, I understand that Kedar heard the AS2000 with all 3012Rs. What arms were used in his comparisons with the EMT and AF1? Were any of the arms and cartridges consistent? Could some of the differences you ascribe to the tables also be a result of the cartridge/arm combinations you used? How are you and Keder confident about isolating the signatures of the tables, or is it a more general thing whereby regardless of arm/cartridge used, these sonic traits of the three tables came through anyway? Did Kedar hear the Kronos?

Tang, please don't say anything. I will post sometime next month

 

[ddk]

Tang, please don't say anything. I will post sometime next month

It's his system !

david