American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)

[gian60]

Dear Tang,

you can buy,to try, electronic crossover First Watt B4,price list 1.500 usd and sound is better and more natural of Pass XVR1,my friend has both,and use Ayon amp on mid high,if match will be ok,you will have deep bass and dense mid bass with Lamm and transparency of Ayon on mid high and also using Ayon only on mid high they will sound more natural and fast,because signal don't go to drive bass frequency

 

[ddk]

My Kuro's are SilverGold solid core.They lay out more info than any other cable I found. People rave about Bocchino's. I have them in all connecting points too. And the Cheng Cheng's. They just dont hype any certain frequencies to make certain dynamic pop and end up masking nuances like many power cords do. So no nuances or info lost for me. In fact I now have more ambient like when I had subs on too now.

Four clicks on volume knobs of LL1.1 is already louder than the level I normally listen to.

Shortfalls? 1) Sound less open than Ayon. 2) Sound a bit less organized like when I first introduced Cheng Cheng in my system.

Tang

1) Your Lamms are new. they’ll open up more in a couple of weeks but I suspect you already have more natural resolution than the Ayon.
2) less hifi!

 

[tima]

Tang, Micro and others are using the word 'darker' to characterize Lamm sound. I understand as the word falls readily to hand.

Being interested in the words we use to describe gear and sound, let me ask this question: For those using this word, what, in your particular usage for Lamm is its antonym? Is it 'lighter' ?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Tim, while I’ve associated darker also with more soulful and possibly at times even feeling heavier and at the opposite end things as more lit up, brighter more spirited and or even possibly lighter. Most usually tho simply darker and brighter come first to mind as the most fitting reflective duality in what I’d see as a fairly common and useful sonic gradation.

 

[bonzo75]

Tim, while I’ve associated darker also with more soulful and possibly at times even feeling heavier and at the opposite end things as more lit up, brighter more spirited and or even possibly lighter. Most usually tho simply darker and brighter come first to mind as the most fitting reflective duality in what I’d see as a fairly common and useful sonic gradation.

I don't think brighter is opposite of darker, as brighter signifies an irritating high end. Lighter is not either, because while it will have the top end dark is missing, lighter to me indicates a lack of low end. If it is not dark, nor light, it will be balanced across, top to down. Lit is different from lighter.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I wonder if what Tang is experiencing is what happened w me some years back.

After getting into tubes for the first time w the Hovland HP200 pre in 2005, and moving to SETs friendly Zus.

In 2013 when I bought my Straingauge cart, I heard it thru an all-Nat tube pre/211s monos chain. I loved what I heard that day (well, I shelled out for the cart), but felt the Nats were so full blooded, so tonally dense, so visceral and textured, that they were almost overwhelming. And instead went down the Audion Black Shadows 845s route, lighter, less full blooded.

And grew to love the Audions. But not one day went past that I didn't hark back to that demo and the strong impression the Nat red blooded sound made on me.

And so it proved to be that I ended up w those Nats 2 years later, and have not looked back.

So Tang, I can't say whether this is an accurate parallel to your Lamm v Ayon comparison. But if it is at all, my advice is stick at the Lamms, you'll find more and more music where density of tone really shines.

And at this point the Lamms will fully work their spell and be indisensable.

 

[microstrip]

Tang, Micro and others are using the word 'darker' to characterize Lamm sound. I understand as the word falls readily to hand.

Being interested in the words we use to describe gear and sound, let me ask this question: For those using this word, what, in your particular usage for Lamm is its antonym? Is it 'lighter' ?

Just to point that I used it for the ML3 - the M1.2 sounds different. Later I will come back to the subject.

 

[bonzo75]

I wonder if what Tang is experiencing is what happened to me some years back.

.

Why Marc, he is a nice fun guy

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, he's had the misfortune of you visiting as I've had, so yes is the answer.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Tang, Micro and others are using the word 'darker' to characterize Lamm sound. I understand as the word falls readily to hand.

Being interested in the words we use to describe gear and sound, let me ask this question: For those using this word, what, in your particular usage for Lamm is its antonym? Is it 'lighter' ?

when i use the term 'darker' when contrasting the ML3's with my dart mono's (and the VAC Statements), it's referring to a few related things.

the background is more candle lit, and less open, compared to diffuse daylight. so you did not see all the way into the edges of the soundstage. the darts allowed a less restricted view. colors are a bit deeper and denser. deeper than real? probably. softer too. more natural. too natural? maybe. a different version of reality.

the tonal balance is more liquid and textural, but not congested. the dart mono's are more transparent. both amps cover all the bases, only that the emphasis is different. the ML3's were not closed in on top as far as high end extension, but not nearly as open on top as the darts. it's rare for any amp to be as open on top as the darts but still have a natural tonality (not heard it).

in my system as long as the ML3's were in the comfortable performance envelop and the music did not get too large scale, it had an apparently linear sound. it was only when contrasted with the dart mono's that a different type of reality was represented. and i felt that when comfortable the ML3's were more linear than the VAC Statements, which always had a bit of soft, slightly thick, and warmed over presentation. with the ML3's disbelief was commonly suspended, the big VAC's rarely did that.

to be fair to the big VAC's, tube rolling might have made significant differences.

this is just what i recall in the context of my system. i'm sure others might view it different in different contexts.

and turning impressions into words is always a challenge.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My

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Tang

Tang, Micro and others are using the word 'darker' to characterize Lamm sound. I understand as the word falls readily to hand.

Being interested in the words we use to describe gear and sound, let me ask this question: For those using this word, what, in your particular usage for Lamm is its antonym? Is it 'lighter' ?

I use “illuminated” as the antonym. And I really like MikeL’s contrast above: candlelight versus diffuse daylight.

 

[bonzo75]

I use “illuminated” as the antonym. And I really like MikeL’s contrast above: candlelight versus diffuse daylight.

So if you don't have it dark, you will have it illuminated? I think if it is right, you will not notice either. It will be balanced

 

[Tango]

Dear

Dear Tang,

it will be interesting to me whether your musical world expands or contracts with the ML3 musical viewpoint. will you become more focused on certain music and even specific tt's and cart's which play to the strengths of the Lamm view, or will it open up the musical landscape wider? or maybe these things won't change at all.

no right or wrong about this. and it will take some time for this to naturally work itself out.

this issue is not just an electronics issue, it can be connected to room size, mood, and personal taste too. and we all go through phases where we are connected to certain types of music, so it's not anything we determine quickly.

when i was going through my amplifier trials last spring this became an important aspect in my thinking. what music was most important, or was it all important?

best wishes and i'm enjoying your amazing journey a great deal.

best regards,

Mike

Hello Mike,

My musical interest will be expanding for sure. This is regardless of and totally unrelated to gears I am using. Right now I am getting into classical. I find many classical pieces can capture my emotion better than jazz that I have been listening to. My interest in classical is focusing for the moment only to the performances that draw me in and not boring to me. I only like certain performances from certain musicians, conductors and composers on violin, cello, piano concerto with orchestra and also chamber. I set myself to buy musical performance first and if I could get that performance in excellent sounding vinyl I will seek to own it. I now stop buying vinyls that sound excellent but the music itself does not capture my attention. You could give me the best sounding Chopin record and it will be in my one time wonder bin. I also stop buying tapes that are purposefully made to sound audiophile good but with rather unknown musicians. No I am not like Ron. I explore new music much more than him I believe. I only listen to unamplified, no electric guitar, no electone, no rock, music with my hifi system.

With regard to Lamm. I kept the amps and preamps on for about 27 hrs. since yesterday. I wish Kedar was here to listen and give impression himself so there would be no investor bias. I dont think he would draw any conclusion different from me. And yes 27 hrs you can draw a conclusion. This is another case that doesnt take weeks or months to see if they match the speakers. This Lamm combo is very very special. With my speakers and room I dont find them anywhere near running out of gas. The volume at first red mark, it is already louder than what I normally listen. At second red mark, it sounds like I am in front row concert with no sound breakup.


Loudness is just an illustration. What really count is the drive and energy of instruments that radiate to me like live sound. My system was already excellent at this but this is something beyond. (Many other attributes also go beyond.) And they come without having to crank up the volume. There is no difference in headroom comparing to 80 watt Ayon. I dont think it is just the Lamm that doesthis. It is the combination of Lamm and Cessaro. Kedar will be able to hear the difference between the big Cessaro with lower power tube amps vs. higher ones. He has also been to Audioquattr's.

Since my scope of music is narrower than yours and I never had such high reference point on solid stage gears like yours, I can not really answer if the Lamm in my system only suit Jazz and chamber or not. They sound superb with my specific types of classical I mentioned earlier too. You have heard your favorite classicals with both top of the class solid stage and tube gears, you heard the difference. So you know Mike. I don't. If I had a chance to listen with you when you were comparing, I might just agree with you on the the finding. My point is people without such high experience and reference point on both ss and tube should not even think about commenting on this. Certainly I am one of them. So I cannot say if eventually the Lamm would limit my scope of music. At this point...no.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Ron Resnick]

So if you don't have it dark, you will have it illuminated? I think if it is right, you will not notice either. It will be balanced

No. It is not an either/or. I am describing a spectrum, with “dark” on one end and “illuminated” on the other end?

Wonderful, Tang! I am very happy for you!

 

[Tango]

turning impressions into words is always a challenge.

+100

 

[bonzo75]

"My musical interest will be expanding for sure. This is regardless of and totally unrelated to gears I am using. Right now I am getting into classical. I find many classical pieces can capture my emotion better than jazz that I have been listening to. My interest in classical is focusing for the moment only to the performances that draw me in and not boring to me. I only like certain performances from certain musicians, conductors and composers on violin, cello, piano concerto with orchestra and also chamber. I set myself to buy musical performance first and if I could get that performance in excellent sounding vinyl I will seek to own it. I now stop buying vinyls that sound excellent but the music itself does not capture my attention. You could give me the best sounding Chopin record and it will be in my one time wonder bin. I also stop buying tapes that are purposefully made to sound audiophile good but with rather unknown musicians. No I am not like Ron. I explore new music much more than him I believe. I only listen to unamplified, no electric guitar, no electone, no rock, music with my hifi system"

Almost totally agree with the above, except that there is very good blues and rock music and on quality LPs as well. Will send you some.

 

[bonzo75]

No. It is not an either/or. I am describing a spectrum, with “dark” on one end and “illuminated” on the other end?

Ok. I interpreted the question as, if you don't get dark, what do you get? Not necessarily illuminated

 

[Tango]

"My musical interest will be expanding for sure. This is regardless of and totally unrelated to gears I am using. Right now I am getting into classical. I find many classical pieces can capture my emotion better than jazz that I have been listening to. My interest in classical is focusing for the moment only to the performances that draw me in and not boring to me. I only like certain performances from certain musicians, conductors and composers on violin, cello, piano concerto with orchestra and also chamber. I set myself to buy musical performance first and if I could get that performance in excellent sounding vinyl I will seek to own it. I now stop buying vinyls that sound excellent but the music itself does not capture my attention. You could give me the best sounding Chopin record and it will be in my one time wonder bin. I also stop buying tapes that are purposefully made to sound audiophile good but with rather unknown musicians. No I am not like Ron. I explore new music much more than him I believe. I only listen to unamplified, no electric guitar, no electone, no rock, music with my hifi system"

Almost totally agree with the above, except that there is very good blues and rock music and on quality LPs as well. Will send you some.

I do blues I forgot to write it. I dont do rock. Dont send me rock.

Tang

 

[christoph]

I have 14 Lamm wood crates in my garage and there were no T-shirts inside ...

Two crates here, no wonder I got no Shirt if you didn't even with 14 crates

 

[Steve Williams]

Dear Tang,

it will be interesting to me whether your musical world expands or contracts with the ML3 musical viewpoint. will you become more focused on certain music and even specific tt's and cart's which play to the strengths of the Lamm view, or will it open up the musical landscape wider? or maybe these things won't change at all.

no right or wrong about this. and it will take some time for this to naturally work itself out.

this issue is not just an electronics issue, it can be connected to room size, mood, and personal taste too. and we all go through phases where we are connected to certain types of music, so it's not anything we determine quickly.

when i was going through my amplifier trials last spring this became an important aspect in my thinking. what music was most important, or was it all important?

best wishes and i'm enjoying your amazing journey a great deal.

best regards,

Mike

I also find this somewhat speculative and TBH these amps with horns produces great sound regardless. Tang said he doesn't need to have his gain control above the 4th click on the preamp. That is very impressive. When I heard Davids system his gain was at the 3rd click

In my system using the Wilson X2's, my average setting is 10-14 click depending on the music genre and source