Amp Stand for Heavy Amp on Wood Floor?

[rando]

Insomuch as power is a larger concern today than it was just a few years back.

Were I in Ron's position of having a not quite beyond the stage of testing and still easily emptied out listening room. A little research on the likely formulation and qualities of concrete underneath him followed by some quick and dirty forum(ha)lation of a weighted test routine. Would go some ways towards making me sleep better at night for years to come.

My licked finger touching air sixth sense reading would lead towards (SQ tests) leveling numerous bars of a greater length than expected with a single hardwood sheet atop. Friction on a level below measuring with the naked eye can be mighty helpful in environment where compound issues surround the small island(s) you are defending. Meaning you also have geographic earth movement to account for on top of air and locally manufactured forces. Also meaning don't fight the less desirable qualities of residential concrete with equipment tweaks.

Food for thought expanding upon the always informative technical advice Atmasphere provides.

 

[Willgolf]

Man am I ever confused now. LOL. I just need amp platforms and a decent audio rack. Today, I called a higher-end rack company (nameless) and they quoted me $20k for a 3-level 25x19 rack. I am not sure they sell a lot at that price. I told them that I would get back to them. I did not say when.

 

[Cellcbern]

I am still thinking about starting simple and DIY, and affixing 2.5” Duro 70 Sorbothane hemispheres to the bottom corners of 2” thick walnut butcher block platforms.

Simple and very effective DIY amp stand - two 1/2" thick Corian boards (Corian does not resonate) with 50 duro Sorbothane discs between them in each corner and the center, and heavy duty adhesive felt pads under the bottom board. You could do the same thing with Acrylic, MDF, or wood (bamboo cutting boards which can be ordered cut to custom sizes online are good for this purpose). For significantly heavier amps you would want to use 70 durometer Sorbothane. Whatever type of isolation platform you use it helps to add footers between it and the component that dissipate/tune internal component resonances - in the photo Marigo Mystery feet. Pathos TT amp weighs 90 lbs.

 

[Cellcbern]

Man am I ever confused now. LOL. I just need amp platforms and a decent audio rack. Today, I called a higher-end rack company (nameless) and they quoted me $20k for a 3-level 25x19 rack. I am not sure they sell a lot at that price. I told them that I would get back to them. I did not say when.

You have a choice with racks and amp stands - expensive with the isolation technology built in or well built basic with good decoupling feet and/or platforms added. You can get comparable performance with each approach but for me the latter proved more cost effective.

 

[Willgolf]

Simple and very effective DIY amp stand - two 1/2" thick Corian boards (Corian does not resonate) with 50 duro Sorbothane discs between them in each corner and the center, and heavy duty adhesive felt pads under the bottom board. You could do the same thing with Acrylic, MDF, or wood (bamboo cutting boards which can be ordered cut to custom sizes online are good for this purpose). Whatever type of isolation platform you use it helps to add footers between it and the component that dissipate/tune internal component resonances - in the photo Marigo Mystery feet. Pathos TT amp weighs 90 lbs.

@Cellcbern
Looks good. A couple of questions: Did you glue the discs between the Corian boards or did you just set them in the corners? What footers are under your component? Why felt on the bottom corian board as opposed to footers? I actually have some leftover granite pieces I could use.

 

[Puma Cat]

I have found @Norman Varney 's EVPs a great addition. I use them under the Daiza platform for the Extreme, instead of the stock footers, and under the MSB gear. I need another set for the pre and SACD player.

Agreed, 100%. EVPs are great. I have used them under DACs to very good effect, and I have a set under each Harbeth, between the speaker and it's wooden frame stand. I should get a set to put under the Constellation Integrated amp I'm using.

Here's a figure you guys may find of interest. I made up a homemade "slide hammer" by putting a socket onto a bolt, and dropping the socket from an exactly fixed distance onto the shelf of my audio rack. I measured the vibration imparted to my Schiit Gungnir DAC as Imparted Power, RMS from 5 Hz to approx 50 Hz using an iPhone app called VibSensor (which unfortunately, is no longer available). For these experiments, the iPhone was place in a reference position on the DAC, with the DAC resting on various footers. I then exported the data and graphed it the statistic application, JMP.

Here's a plot showing various footers under the DAC, measuring the imparted vibration. Look how effective the EVPs are compared to the Gungnir's stock feet (Stock Feet), Herbie's Audio Labs Tenderfoot (TF), the "rubber" DiversiTech anti-vibration pads (DVT), and EVPs. You can see how bad the stock feet were. The EVPs are the blue trace, and pretty much slaughter everything else.

Pretty interesting, eh?

The other footers I've found very effective are the HRS Nimbus Couplers and Spacers, and the Shunyata Research SSF footers. Unfortunately, I don't have VibSensor data on these last two, because VibSensor is no longer available.

 

[Puma Cat]

Man am I ever confused now. LOL. I just need amp platforms and a decent audio rack. Today, I called a higher-end rack company (nameless) and they quoted me $20k for a 3-level 25x19 rack. I am not sure they sell a lot at that price. I told them that I would get back to them. I did not say when.

Here's a suggestion for an excellent rack of those dimensions that is $2850 for a 3-shelf rack: Core Audio PlyKraft racks. I've heard these multiple times, and they are truly excellent. He makes absolutely superb racks and they really work. He could make an amp platform for you, too, I'm sure.

The bottom of each shelf has vibration damping components...


From the Core Audio: As with previous designs, the shelves are milled in the center to create two hollow chambers accessible from the underside of the platform by removing the two brushed aluminum composite Di-Bond®/ALUPANEL® panels. The chambers are preloaded with our unique blend of damping materials to create a high mass, low resonance core.

Info here:
http://coreaudiodesigns.com/products/component-racks/

 

[Ron Resnick]

Simple and very effective DIY amp stand - two 1/2" thick Corian boards (Corian does not resonate) with 50 duro Sorbothane discs between them in each corner and the center, and heavy duty adhesive felt pads under the bottom board.

Thank you.

Why felt pads under the bottom board, and not Sorbothane discs under the bottom board?

 

[PhP]

WRT the butcher block thing:

The idea with a platform is to be able to absorb vibration as much as possible and to provide a still place on which the equipment can sit.

To that end, butcher block by itself isn't all that great- it does resonate (pick it up and hit it!). But its easy to fix: get a slab of aluminum or steel that has some mass to it, perhaps 1/4" for steel or 1/2" for aluminum at a minimum. Of course you'll note that the metal on its own is also resonant. But when its bonded (which will take some machining to get a nice flat surface for each part) to the butcher block the two different resonances will rob energy from each other. This will make for a more controlled environment for the equipment.

Empire used this technique back in the 1960s in their later turntables that had 2-piece platters. Although made of the same material, the 2 parts had different resonances; when mated together they resonated far less. My Scully lathe also used an anti-vibration platform and it was made largely of wood but was layered using this same principle. So its not like this idea is new or controversial.

Hello
I agree that butcher block is not a good solution. The best is platform with 2 layers as you said, each self damp the other. Of course the best is 2 different materials, and adding glue is just to constrain each other. If the glue is thick, it's not a good solution, it acts like a damping sheet.
About platform there are so many theories. Absorb vibration and ground it. Vibration absorption need to have a very good volume but also must be rigid enough to have itself very low modes amplitudes. Wood cannot do that. 30 years ago I bought a platform from Polycrystal (USA), rigid-heavy and self damping due to the material (resin+stone powder). It was great but especially with amplifiers that have quite soft feet. Since manufacturers build more rigid enclosure, the best way is to drain. If you look at what are the support of some brands (Goldmund, Nagra..), the use rigidity to prevent vibrations. This work best, even on NAGRA tubes components. Goldmund stand resonate when you hit it but it not the case when it it is loaded by the turntable of the Digital player. I precise that I have no link with these Swiss brands but I know their work and it's for me the best approach I listened to or tested when I was professor in medical vibrations in a University.
KR
Philippe

Picture 1 is Polycrystal platform
Picture 2 is Convergence® platform on an audio stand

 

[DasguteOhr]

WRT the butcher block thing:

The idea with a platform is to be able to absorb vibration as much as possible and to provide a still place on which the equipment can sit.

To that end, butcher block by itself isn't all that great- it does resonate (pick it up and hit it!). But its easy to fix: get a slab of aluminum or steel that has some mass to it, perhaps 1/4" for steel or 1/2" for aluminum at a minimum. Of course you'll note that the metal on its own is also resonant. But when its bonded (which will take some machining to get a nice flat surface for each part) to the butcher block the two different resonances will rob energy from each other. This will make for a more controlled environment for the equipment.

Empire used this technique back in the 1960s in their later turntables that had 2-piece platters. Although made of the same material, the 2 parts had different resonances; when mated together they resonated far less. My Scully lathe also used an anti-vibration platform and it was made largely of wood but was layered using this same principle. So its not like this idea is new or controversial.

therefore slate, which is layer rock, is very absorbent. or a cheap variant is a glued wooden box that is filled with sand. on the sand you lay a wooden plate that is smaller than a wooden box in terms of dimensions. the amp only has contact with the floor via sand. works great.

 

[tima]

(Corian does not resonate)

Not to be picky but every thing has one or more natural resonance frequencies. Everything vibrates. DuPont technical specs for Corian do not include resonant frequency. As a material it is hard and stiff. In discussions I've read about using Corian as a base for turntables there was mention that it does ring and needs dampening. Same for building speaker boxes out of Corian.

That is not a comment on your diy platform. Whatever you put under a component will change the resonance frequency of both the component and the platform, so whatever is tried can yield a different sound. Ideally a component stand will both isolate the component (deny energy transfer) and provide a path for internal component vibrations to exit the component (absorb energy/transfer energy.)

 

[the sound of Tao]

… or wood (bamboo cutting boards which can be ordered cut to custom sizes online are good for this purpose). Whatever type of isolation platform you use it helps to add footers between it and the component that dissipate/tune internal component resonances - in the photo Marigo Mystery feet. Pathos TT amp weighs 90 lbs.

+1 on bamboo boards as a great cost effective option for hardwood… I’ve stacked these with 30mm and even better 45mm Carrara marble slabs to good effect… and of all of the stone I’ve tried Carrara marble seems to be a good balanced option when used in concert with a counteracting layer of hardwood or bamboo slab.

Though I’ve also been very intrigued more lately with Peter’s (@PeterA) use of a combination of both hardwood and thick polished stainless steel slab as an approach… it also seems to me a fairly striking and beautifully restrained visual outcome as well. Am much tempted to explore this down the track and perhaps follow suit.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Not to be picky but every thing has one or more natural resonance frequencies. Everything vibrates. DuPont technical specs for Corian do not include resonant frequency. As a material it is hard and stiff. In discussions I've read about using Corian as a base for turntables there was mention that it does ring and needs dampening. Same for building speaker boxes out of Corian.

That is not a comment on your diy platform. Whatever you put under a component will change the resonance frequency of both the component and the platform, so whatever is tried can yield a different sound. Ideally a component stand will both isolate the component (deny energy transfer) and provide a path for internal component vibrations to exit the component (absorb energy/transfer energy.)

I found it easier to get a clear sense of the sound of different combinations of material for layers for shelves and dampening during my early Magnepan years starting back just 12 years ago… I found having Maggie’s (perhaps too) easily focussed my perception on the differences between any components which is why maybe reviewers also seem to be drawn to them as well… they are great for comparing small system changes.

Must admit I spent near stupid amounts of joyful time assessing various combinations of materials both under and on top of my gear… I did find (among other materials) that composites not work just in my particular setup as well as hardwood, a bit of steel and Carrara marble combinations but I’m also very much of the context and need to try various combinations as maybe a system based cocktail of outcomes school. I do figure this earlier time as being in my more implicitly sound focussed and slightly more obsessive years .

Though I must say the designer in me very much enjoyed checking out spec with different materials. I am ok with where I’ve landed for now with bamboo and some steel but open to do a bit more exploring in this down the track looking at PeterA’s great looking combination.

I’m hoping hardwood and thick stainless steel slab under the amp could well be a future resting resonant happy place… in the mean time back to the music Tord Gustavson Trio and dog Cleo is fairly blissed out… she rather likes the setup pretty much as it is especially with the SET + wood horns and she is a happy (if not exactly conclusive) data point for what is a good and healthy natural sound balance.

 

[tima]

Though I must say the designer in me very much enjoyed checking out spec with different materials. I am ok with where I’ve landed for now but open to do a bit more exploring in this down the track looking at Peter’s version of good looking combinations… being design tragic is a something of a job hazard in my game. Hardwood and thick stainless steel could well be a resting resonant happy place… here’s hoping cause it looks great…

The constrained layer approach is used by many manfacturers and diy people. Trying combinations is fun and endless, but I cannot say it is endless fun. I got off the merry-go-round when I started using SRA whose platforms take a constrained layer approach. Nothing stops vibration like vacuum!

I too thought about mentioning the high mass steel plate idea from David and Peter. It certainly looks classy. Iirc it also involves o-rings and footers (leather or wood?) The o-rings allow for tuning which is cool. Maybe he will see this and give us an update.

A multi-hued brown dog on a mustard colored blanket is surely a joy. I have a snoring cat next to my chair.

 

[Cellcbern]

@Cellcbern
Looks good. A couple of questions: Did you glue the discs between the Corian boards or did you just set them in the corners? What footers are under your component? Why felt on the bottom corian board as opposed to footers? I actually have some leftover granite pieces I could use.

Glue is optional for Sorbothane - its innate stickiness keeps it in place. I have custom drilled (to accept the built in spikes of the Pathos TT) Marigo Mystery Feet between amp and platform. You don't need additional footers for isolation beneath a Corian/Sorbothans "sandwich". The heavy duty felt discs are to protect the floor and allow me to easily move the platform/amp for cleaning purposes.

 

[Cellcbern]

Thank you.

Why felt pads under the bottom board, and not Sorbothane discs under the bottom board?

Additional isolation is not needed under a Corian/Sorbothane "sandwhich". However if you wanted it I would use Herbie's Audio Lab gliders in place of the felt pads. The felt pads/gliders are to protect the floor and facilitate movement for cleaning purposes.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I found it easier to get a clear sense of the sound of different combinations of material for layers for shelves and dampening during my early Magnepan years starting back just 12 years ago… I found having Maggie’s (perhaps too) easily focussed my perception on the differences between any components which is why maybe reviewers also seem to be drawn to them as well… they are great for comparing small system changes.

Must admit I spent near stupid amounts of joyful time assessing various combinations of materials both under and on top of my gear… I did find (among other materials) that composites not work just in my particular setup as well as hardwood, a bit of steel and Carrara marble combinations but I’m also very much of the context and need to try various combinations as maybe a system based cocktail of outcomes school. I do figure this earlier time as being in my more implicitly sound focussed and slightly more obsessive years .

Though I must say the designer in me very much enjoyed checking out spec with different materials. I am ok with where I’ve landed for now with bamboo and some steel but open to do a bit more exploring in this down the track looking at PeterA’s great looking combination.

I’m hoping hardwood and thick stainless steel slab under the amp could well be a future resting resonant happy place… in the mean time back to the music Tord Gustavson Trio and dog Cleo is fairly blissed out… she rather likes the setup pretty much as it is especially with the SET + wood horns and she is a happy (if not exactly conclusive) data point for what is a good and healthy natural sound balance.
View attachment 99930

carrara marble is crystalline rock, it always sounds too garish for me. birch plywood filled with lead balls and sand has always been very good many shelf manufacturers do it that way. e.g. copulare

Copulare - Stand of the Art - Tonebases by Gerhard Brandl

P. S your dog is great

 

[the sound of Tao]

The constrained layer approach is used by many manfacturers and diy people. Trying combinations is fun and endless, but I cannot say it is endless fun. I got off the merry-go-round when I started using SRA whose platforms take a constrained layer approach. Nothing stops vibration like vacuum!

I too thought about mentioning the high mass steel plate idea from David and Peter. It certainly looks classy. Iirc it also involves o-rings and footers (leather or wood?) The o-rings allow for tuning which is cool. Maybe he will see this and give us an update.

A multi-hued brown dog on a mustard colored blanket is surely a joy. I have a snoring cat next to my chair.

SRA made a great difference under my mates 300B SET’s… I SET sat his amps along with his Tune Animas and had plenty of time over a few months to trial the amps with and without the stands. Great musically poised balance with the SRAs in place.

My dog Cleo chose the yellow blanket though... I empathise with the snoring pet… bulldog = big time snore, was almost going to name her Nora the snora

 

[the sound of Tao]

carrara marble is crystalline rock, it always sounds too garish for me. birch plywood filled with lead balls and sand has always been very good many shelf manufacturers do it that way. e.g. copulare

Copulare - Stand of the Art - Tonebases by Gerhard Brandl

P. S your dog is great

Though the marble was out of 500mm x 300mm x 15mm slab and I used 3 of them so 45mm as stacked and then used in conjunction with 50mm slab of mahogany… I also used some slabs of calcite on top as dampening and it all worked… though in retrospect it looked like crazy overkill lol

Many thanks from Cleo and me, she would chew down pretty quickly on ply… thinking she might struggle just a bit more with one of Peter’s slabs of steel

 

[PeterA]

Though I’ve also been very intrigued more lately with Peter’s (@PeterA) use of a combination of both hardwood and thick polished stainless steel slab as an approach… it also seems to me a fairly striking and beautifully restrained visual outcome as well. Am much tempted to explore this down the track and perhaps follow suit.

Tao, I appreciate the kind comment. This amp stand is very effective and can be tuned by the placement and number of rubber O rings between the stainless steel plate and mahogany platform.

The steel is for mass and the wood is for structural support. Steel plates ring so the vibrations are managed by the O rings and the dimensions of the plates. The fine-tuning is all done by ear. It is an elegant DIY solution, though not inexpensive.