Another Apogee thread? You bet!

[LL21]

Lol. I just ran a long thread here describing why my choice on the apogee front is the scintilla http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...sle-with-horns&p=446493&viewfull=1#post446493

Interesting...i just read that thread and remembered that you had strong positives towards the Full Range which I have read from a number of Apogee fans is their favorite in terms of all-out performance in the right room/setup. Any thoughts on this?

 

[bonzo75]

Lol. I just ran a long thread here describing why my choice on the apogee front is the scintilla http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...sle-with-horns&p=446493&viewfull=1#post446493

Also the initial discovery thread of the scintilla is here http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...gee-Scinitilla&p=445550&viewfull=1#post445550

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting...i just read that thread and remembered that you had strong positives towards the Full Range which I have read from a number of Apogee fans is their favorite in terms of all-out performance in the right room/setup. Any thoughts on this?

Oh sorry I expect FR to be better than scintilla except where room integration is an issue which will be most cases in FR. Scintilla easier to fit in, not a big project of biamping with crossover, FR need a massive room

 

[spiritofmusic]

Caelin, Lloyd et al
The Duettas I heard are hand down the best transducers ever in my albeit limited experience
At a price 4-5x cheaper than these new pretenders, they are the ultimate no brainer
IF you're prepared to stick w SS
IF you're OK to go crazy on setup minutiae
For me I'm not sure if I am, and hence I'm cooling a little on the concept
But gotten right, they really offer a rare, nay unique, combination of involvement and insight
I'm v glad I had a good chance to hear them

 

[microstrip]

(...) The only exception is the Soundlab A1+B1 combination which do create an amazing natural bass if not overdriven, the rest of them even if they have the surface area to generate low frequencies start farting with a little power and volume which is what you need for bass to come alive. (...)

(...) I had almost the same exact gear on my Divas and they were mesmerizing specially at higher volumes when that magical bass came alive.(...)

david

I think that it is why we have mixed feelings concerning the Apogees and they are preferred by the lovers of 70's rock and amplified music - these panels need high level to show their magic. When I had the Duetta Signatures I found that at the typical level of acoustic music at row H they lacked life, but as soon as they reached a level that would really disturb neighbors they sounded much betterm and had magic. The Soundlab's, probably because of their much larger panel surface and radiation pattern can play great at much lower levels, but do not have the dynamic range of the Apogees.

 

[Reality Audio]

The height won't be noticeable over scintilla as a scintilla like Christoph's is taller than normal but the bass panels are bigger and easier to drive. The room required is much larger and scintilla has 4 50mm pure ribbons as compared to one 25 mm of diva if I understand Jon right

I would personally say the height does make a difference, I think Divas would still have a more room filling floor to ceiling sound, the sheer extra area of the bass panel counts here.

Not quite, the Divas normal complement is a 25mm wide midrange and a 4mm wide foil tweeter. The Scintilla mid/tweeter array is a 50mm wide midrange sandwiched between 2 x 12mm wide tweeters that loop over from front to back. When Dan D'agostino came to have a chat with us at the end of the 2006 London Hi-Fi show he used a term that I think came from Leo or Jason at Apogee "coalescent mid/tweeter". So due to the shallow 6db/octave crossover of the Scintilla over the wide crossover point the mid and tweeter are outputting the same signal from almost the same physical location. I think this is why when people hear Scintillas they say they have something "special" over the other Apogees. Having heard the Divas with the foil midrange it's probably also the fact they are the same material.

Excuse any possible dodgy english in there, have a hangover from a wedding yesterday!

 

[bonzo75]

Caelin, Lloyd et al
The Duettas I heard are hand down the best transducers ever in my albeit limited experience
At a price 4-5x cheaper than these new pretenders, they are the ultimate no brainer
IF you're prepared to stick w SS
IF you're OK to go crazy on setup minutiae
For me I'm not sure if I am, and hence I'm cooling a little on the concept
But gotten right, they really offer a rare, nay unique, combination of involvement and insight
I'm v glad I had a good chance to hear them

Duettas are no more easier or tougher than a normal speaker, but of course if someone has a 56 foot room anything could take forever. Start a thread on how to place Wilson or Rockport in that room and what amps to use and people will recommend you everything from 30w sets to Dagostino. And many other room tips. Divas are tougher, and FR are very tough to set up

 

[spiritofmusic]

For the record, 18x37.5x9, space beyond 37.5 to be used as divided off Lp and cd storage alcove space
And for the record, advice from actual Apogee owners and users, and other panels too, plus those already running non Apogee systems in bug dedicated rooms
Plenty of experience, and real world advice to chew on

 

[CGabriel]

Caelin, Lloyd et al
The Duettas I heard are hand down the best transducers ever in my albeit limited experience
At a price 4-5x cheaper than these new pretenders, they are the ultimate no brainer
IF you're prepared to stick w SS
IF you're OK to go crazy on setup minutiae
For me I'm not sure if I am, and hence I'm cooling a little on the concept
But gotten right, they really offer a rare, nay unique, combination of involvement and insight
I'm v glad I had a good chance to hear them

Have you decided to take the horn route?

 

[CGabriel]

I think that it is why we have mixed feelings concerning the Apogees and they are preferred by the lovers of 70's rock and amplified music - these panels need high level to show their magic. When I had the Duetta Signatures I found that at the typical level of acoustic music at row H they lacked life, but as soon as they reached a level that would really disturb neighbors they sounded much betterm and had magic. The Soundlab's, probably because of their much larger panel surface and radiation pattern can play great at much lower levels, but do not have the dynamic range of the Apogees.

Yes, same issue I have with the Maggie 20.7s

 

[microstrip]

For the record, 18x37.5x9, space beyond 37.5 to be used as divided off Lp and cd storage alcove space

Why the 37.5´?

 

[bonzo75]

I would personally say the height does make a difference, I think Divas would still have a more room filling floor to ceiling sound, the sheer extra area of the bass panel counts here.

Not quite, the Divas normal complement is a 25mm wide midrange and a 4mm wide foil tweeter. The Scintilla mid/tweeter array is a 50mm wide midrange sandwiched between 2 x 12mm wide tweeters that loop over from front to back. When Dan D'agostino came to have a chat with us at the end of the 2006 London Hi-Fi show he used a term that I think came from Leo or Jason at Apogee "coalescent mid/tweeter". So due to the shallow 6db/octave crossover of the Scintilla over the wide crossover point the mid and tweeter are outputting the same signal from almost the same physical location. I think this is why when people hear Scintillas they say they have something "special" over the other Apogees. Having heard the Divas with the foil midrange it's probably also the fact they are the same material.

Excuse any possible dodgy english in there, have a hangover from a wedding yesterday!

The scintilla I heard was raised to account for the height

 

[Reality Audio]

Yeah I got that, just read what I wrote, can't really say it another way

 

[bonzo75]

I think that it is why we have mixed feelings concerning the Apogees and they are preferred by the lovers of 70's rock and amplified music - these panels need high level to show their magic. When I had the Duetta Signatures I found that at the typical level of acoustic music at row H they lacked life, but as soon as they reached a level that would really disturb neighbors they sounded much betterm and had magic. The Soundlab's, probably because of their much larger panel surface and radiation pattern can play great at much lower levels, but do not have the dynamic range of the Apogees.

You are comparing bigger soundlabs that you had to smaller Apogees. Those SL should not be in the same room a duetta would fit in, you would need a diva or FR if it was the same as your current 15 x 31 room

 

[microstrip]

You are comparing bigger soundlabs that you had to smaller Apogees. Those SL should not be in the same room a duetta would fit in, you would need a diva or FR if it was the same as your current 15 x 31 room

I had a 15 x 21 room at that time. I used both the A1 and the Duetta in that room. The Soundlab's can play really great in a 17 x 13.5 space - but you will have little space for anything else than equipment and listener!

 

[bonzo75]

I had a 15 x 21 room at that time. I used both the A1 and the Duetta in that room. The Soundlab's can play really great in a 17 x 13.5 space - but you will have little space for anything else than equipment and listener!

I heard the ultimate in a 15 x 20 room firing across and it was like giant headphones

 

[bonzo75]

For the record, 18x37.5x9, space beyond 37.5 to be used as divided off Lp and cd storage alcove space
And for the record, advice from actual Apogee owners and users, and other panels too, plus those already running non Apogee systems in bug dedicated rooms
Plenty of experience, and real world advice to chew on

Same here, advice from actual owners. And like I said, get actual advice from any other speaker owner for that room

 

[microstrip]

I heard the ultimate in a 15 x 20 room firing across and it was like giant headphones

Perhaps visually, but not acoustically if you conveniently treat your room. At that time I already had RPG Abffusors - the best absorber panel I have ever seen - and RPG diffractals in the room.

 

[microstrip]

Same here, advice from actual owners. And like I said, get actual advice from any other speaker owner for that room

No two owners will give us the same advice, no two rooms are alike ... . Owners and lovers are very biased people, nothing can replace direct experience. At some point we must choose a destiny and sail our own boat.

 

[bonzo75]

No two owners will give us the same advice, no two rooms are alike ... . Owners and lovers are very biased people, nothing can replace direct experience. At some point we must choose a destiny and sail our own boat.

Possibly some are just biased and some are not. Mind is very powerful when it wants to talk itself in or out of a decision. I am not deciding on duettas luckily.