Any Bergmann "Galder" owners here ?

[Tango]

Thank you, Bill!

I will be relying 100% on Johnny Bergmann and DDK to make sure the Odin's custom armboard fits perfectly and works perfectly on the AS-2000.

This is purely theoretical speculation (sorry Kedar), but I am quite excited about the prospect of having an air-bearing, linear-tracking tonearm on a platform as anvil stable as the AS-2000.

I will be waiting to hear ddk's impression of the Odin on your AS. He likes simplicity and this arm could be the least finicky of all LT. If it sounds right to him which is natural lively transparent and not adding color to mid and low he could then be more colorful in recommending arm for his tt other than just the 3012R. Hopefully we can get the feedback while we are young.

 

[Lagonda]

I will be waiting to hear ddk's impression of the Odin on your AS. He likes simplicity and this arm could be the least finicky of all LT. If it sounds right to him which is natural lively transparent and not adding color to mid and low he could then be more colorful in recommending arm for his tt other than just the 3012R. Hopefully we can get the feedback while we are young.

I think you are already a couple of years past the being young part Tango

 

[Ron Resnick]

I will be waiting to hear ddk's impression of the Odin on your AS. He likes simplicity and this arm could be the least finicky of all LT. If it sounds right to him which is natural lively transparent and not adding color to mid and low he could then be more colorful in recommending arm for his tt other than just the 3012R. Hopefully we can get the feedback while we are young.

I think that is wishful thinking, my dear Tang. I believe that David has never heard a LT tonearm he likes.

The most we could hope for I believe is "it is among the least bad linear-tracking tonearms I have heard."

It is highly likely we will have an answer to this question sometime this decade.

 

[Tango]

I think that is wishful thinking, my dear Tang. I believe that David has never heard a LT tonearm he likes.

The most we could hope for I believe is "it is among the least bad linear-tracking tonearms I have heard."

It is highly likely we will have an answer to this question sometime this decade.

No doubt a wishful thinking Ron.
Unlike Lagonda, I think life just begins when you are 60.

 

[bonzo75]

I will be waiting to hear ddk's impression of the Odin on your AS. He likes simplicity and this arm could be the least finicky of all LT. If it sounds right to him which is natural lively transparent and not adding color to mid and low he could then be more colorful in recommending arm for his tt other than just the 3012R. Hopefully we can get the feedback while we are young.

Gian and I were once discussing this in Italy, that the linear trackers were the least colorless where you felt you were listening directly to the cartridge with no arm in the middle.

The drawback of most linear trackers is in the bass, something that Vyger got past (and possibly the CS port Rockport do by reports) A pivot also usually has a more controlled soundstage and macro slam in general. Nuance, inflection, lack of distortion in highs and lack of color in a LT is better imo than a pivot. While listening to his versa dynamics, Pietro explained the lack of skating and anti skating and having the smallest arm in the versa was leading to the higher nuance

In most systems and on tables I would prefer a pivot. I prefer LT like Bill and G play on SETs horns. This is because these systems are more nuanced and have better micro dynamics, and with the LT red sparrow combination these are further enhanced. The Sindre is usually weak on bass but in Bill's system that is covered as he has 4 woofers per speaker and can adjust crossover and with the red sparrow sounds perfect.

I would love to listen to the atlas and Stradivarius on the Vyger or the Galder.

In my guesstimate linear tracker on a Brinkmann balance will be a brilliant combination for those who like LTs.

 

[christoph]

Hopefully we can get the feedback while we are young.

 

[christoph]

It is highly likely we will have an answer to this question sometime this decade.

I think we all hope with you
At least I personally certainly do hope for a hopefully soon move-in for you
I can't wait for your system to be up and running

 

[213Cobra]

I worked with Lou Souther 40 years ago on getting the Souther Linear Arm, now in higher end form as the Clearaudio TQx, working and practical in the field. We found that any cartridge wherein the arm-cart dynamic match yielded appropriate resonance worked as well in a linear or pivoted configuration. That is to say, there's no such thing as a cartridge that is particularly suited to LTs. If it is dynamically copasetic, it's fine in either type of arm. The Souther offered much more leeway in achieving working resonance from a wider range of cartridge compliances, by virtue of its very low vertical effective mass and still low-but heavier horizontal mass, in the same fashion as the Transcriptor Vestigal tonearm from the 1970s, or the slightly later Dynavector bi-axial arm.

In principle if the Red Sparrow cartridge works on the Vyger, it should work fine with the Odin. But to be sure one needs to know two specs I can’t find right now: What’s the effective mass of the Atlantis’ tonearm? And what is the nominal compliance of the Red Sparrow. Even Suzaku doesn’t say, nor does any review. The Odin has a claimed effective mass of 14g, so that’s middling and has latitude to take a fair chunk of midrange cartridge compliances, like a lowly Rega.

There shouldn’t be any particular special compatibility between Red Sparrow and linear trackers. Where people go wrong with linear arms and cartridges is where they go wrong with pivoted arms -- not paying enough attention to the dynamic matching of cartridge compliance to arm mass to achieve optimal resonance for the system. Linear arms put somewhat less dynamic load on the stylus assembly elastomer in the vertical plane, but an eccentric LP or a warped one, or one having both defects can still give the elastomer a workout and generate spurious signals if the system resonance is suboptimal.

The great fault of linear arms is that they are not mechanically grounded, especially air bearing ones. It does change the presentation lacking that mechanical ground. I was a strong advocate of linear as a result of helping Lou getting his mechanical design working but eventually returned to tight-tolerance-bearings pivoted arms for their more “planted” presentation.

The Galder is truly solid as a spinner. The Odin is really well executed for its arm type, but whether that is perfection for anyone is still subjective, depending on what convinces you that sound is convincing.

I use my turntables on bearings. I have to recurrently point out that if you tightly couple a massive turntable to the planet, at some point you are using your TT/TA/Cart as a planetary listening device mixing earth vibration in with the excitations traced from the LP groove. In southern California, where modest Richter 1.X tremors are happening all the time, mother earth may be shading your bass sporadically.

Phil

 

[spiritofmusic]

Cognitive disconnect is a current thread.
Everything about looking at an LT arm screams poor bass. Especially my air arm w 5" carbon fibre armwand. And then your mind is expanded when that first bass note strikes and then disappears, so lifelike. I then looked back at my previous SME V, that looks so "right" for bass, and wonder why it was so wrong.

Now I'm listening to a ton more classical at home, those tympani strikes, mass strings, and walking basslines in jazz, and critically percussive piano impact of notes, are all startlingly good thru my air LT.

It's one of the great learning experiences in audio, to go along w the conversion to triodes and the influence of room acoustics.

 

[marmota]

No offense meant Bazelio but I think you are missing the point of the Bergmann TT system. The AF3 Premium is a wonderful table but the performance is challenged by the use of traditional radial tonearms. The linear tracking arm with air bearing is far superior to the best of the radial arms - IMO.
The other factor that I have been enjoying immensely is Bergmann's automatic vacuum hold-down system. No buttons to press, you don't even have to stop the record from spinning. Just lift the record clamp & remove the LP, replace the record and clamp and you are ready to listen to music again. Simple.

While Glader & Odin are offered as a package and build as "one", is possible to buy the Galder without Odin (or even if bought with Odin, you can mount 3 more tonearms), also, Odin can be bought separately. @bazelio makes a very interesting and perfectly valid question IMHO. The tricky part would be to hear Galder (with the optional gunmetal platter, of which there's not even a picture available) & Odin vs AF3P & Odin, or both turntables with the same tonearm, cartridge and phono stage in the same system...

 

[213Cobra]

Cognitive disconnect is a current thread.
Everything about looking at an LT arm screams poor bass. Especially my air arm w 5" carbon fibre armwand. And then your mind is expanded when that first bass note strikes and then disappears, so lifelike. I then looked back at my previous SME V, that looks so "right" for bass, and wonder why it was so wrong.

Now I'm listening to a ton more classical at home, those tympani strikes, mass strings, and walking basslines in jazz, and critically percussive piano impact of notes, are all startlingly good thru my air LT.

It's one of the great learning experiences in audio, to go along w the conversion to triodes and the influence of room acoustics.

When I mentioned that the primary fault of LT arms is their lack of mechanical grounding I did not intend to say that great bass cannot be obtained from them. Sometimes that's a result but certainly not always nor even most of the time. The better tight-tolerance pivoted arms have a planted spatial and transient character that LTs struggle to match. On the other hand LTs don't introduce the tangential tracking error. It's a trade-off. Though an insufficiently-squared / aligned LT-cartridge combination can actually be worse than an approximately-calibrated pivoted arm.

I returned to pivoted arms about 20 years ago. But that could change again. The ultra-straightforward Thomas Schick is especially planted in its musicality and detail retrieval in balance. Another champion in my pivoted tonearm inventory is the now 50 year old Stax 12". But, sure, I could go back to LT. It's by no means unimaginable.

Phil

 

[bonzo75]

While Glader & Odin are offered as a package and build as "one", is possible to buy the Galder without Odin (or even if bought with Odin, you can mount 3 more tonearms), also, Odin can be bought separately. @bazelio makes a very interesting and perfectly valid question IMHO. The tricky part would be to hear Galder (with the optional gunmetal platter, of which there's not even a picture available) & Odin vs AF3P & Odin, or both turntables with the same tonearm, cartridge and phono stage in the same system...

I don't think Galder is anywhere an all out TT. The main reason to buy it is to get a value linear tracker, value as compared to Vyger, for example. If one wants to buy another TT and mount the Odin on it for compare, there are many options available, then it just becomes a case of which TT you prefer that can take an additional arm like Odin. Then your net is cast very wide. The main reason to buy Galder imo is to avoid all this and find a TT that at good value offers an LT as your main arm with the option of adding pivot.

 

[marmota]

I don't think Galder is anywhere an all out TT. The main reason to buy it is to get a value linear tracker, value as compared to Vyger, for example. If one wants to buy another TT and mount the Odin on it for compare, there are many options available, then it just becomes a case of which TT you prefer that can take an additional arm like Odin. Then your net is cast very wide. The main reason to buy Galder imo is to avoid all this and find a TT that at good value offers an LT as your main arm with the option of adding pivot.

You're missing the point, completely.
I quoted a reply to Bazelio, who asked:

One observation I have, and I'd be curious in discussion around it, is that the Galder (with gunmetal platter option) and the AF3P are essentially the same table minus the motor and control. Both are aluminum plinth 4-arm cantilevered boards in Micro Seiki style. Both feature air bearings, and vacuum hold downs. Both would have the same platter material and nearly the same weight. So the differentiator is the motor and motor controller. Galder being DC and AF3P being AC (with control circuitry - the function of which isn't entirely clear). Does anyone have thoughts on these two tables comparatively? Why did Galder owners decide to go in that direction vs the AF3P direction? Price is also fairly similar.

Thanks!

@bonzo75 No one said that the Galder is the ultimate turntable, or the AF3P, just that they're very similar, Micro Seiki inspired designs, using the same platter material (Gunmetal) but two very different motors (one DC, the other AC), and a comparison between the two would be interesting.

Vyger or CS Port or X turntable being "True High End™" and much better than Galder and AF3P is another completely different topic.

 

[bonzo75]

Ok sorry I thought by taking out the Odin, you were trying to judge Galder as a TT to compare with other TTs

 

[Down Under]

View attachment 66886

Yesterday I installed a Dynavector XV-1S on to the Odin tonearm. A lot more resolute than the Brinkmann Pi (Benz Micro motor) with lovely extended high frequencies; cymbals have lots of air around them. Has a lovely involving midrange.
Currently running 300 ohms loading into the Gryphon Legatto; any advice on what value has worked well for you ?
Thanks,
Philip

I am sure you have tried a few settings on the Legacy.
After experimentation I found the 80ohm setting best for my cartridge which is a My Sonic Labs Platinum.
Bass is clean and well defined with good dynamic thrust,midrange is spookily transparent and cymbals/bells etc have nice shimmer with gossamer like delicacy.
I have never heard such a silent phono stage.Jokingly I would suggest that a tomb is noisier.
Very interested to know your experience with different resistor settings if you have the time.
Ross.

 

[CC61231]

Not much action here since Summer :-(

Anybody here tried the DS Audio optical Pick-up's on a Bergmann?

 

[Philip O Hanlon]

I visited Danny Kaey last week and he has the entry level DS Audio cartridge & phono stage. Danny has a Galder with two Odin tonearms. The EMM Labs optical phono stage he should receive any day and he also ordered a better DS optical cartridge.

I plan on visiting Danny next week and recording Tennessee Ernie Ford's LP to DSD 128. I already recorded this on a Galder / Odin / Dynaventor XV1S & a Gryphon Legato phono stage. Be interesting to compare the two recordings.

So far the optical cartridges show great promise. This is a mature technology, as the optical pick-ups have been used in the guitar industry for decades.

 

[CC61231]

Thx Philip,
I'm actually playing with the DS-E1 on my Galder/Odin at the moment, it is still too new to say if it will stay, but currently I experience that it delivers 'much of all' which can be both good and 'a bit too much'.

I'm actually considering to take the loss and get a Hana Unami or Dynavector XV1 instead, as I was very pleased with my previous dynavector.

 

[Philip O Hanlon]

My only criticism of the DE-E1 was when we listened to solo piano. My mother was a piano teacher in Cork city, Ireland who retired from the Cork School of Music at the ages of 65, 75 & finally 85. As you can imagine, during my youth, I spent countless hours listening to solo piano, played at various levels of musicianship. As a result, my go-to instrument for identifying tonal colour is the piano.
We listened to the stunning Jackson Berkey play Debussy's Sunken Cathedral. Bear in mind that the cartridge was brand new & the phono stage was also new and was not at operating temperature, did not have 48 hours to truly warm up. Neither unit was broken-in. But the audible difference between a traditional cartridge & phono stage was while the optical system was dramatically quieter, it lacked a huge amount of tonal colour. Be interesting to hear the W-2, optical cartridge with the EMM Labs DS-EQ1 optical phono stage, and see if they redress the tonal color shortfall. Very promising technology.
Meanwhile, I am v happy with the Dynavector XV1S.
Expect an update later this week. Happy listening, Philip

 

[Mobiusman]

Thank you, Bill!

I will be relying 100% on Johnny Bergmann and DDK to make sure the Odin's custom armboard fits perfectly and works perfectly on the AS-2000.

This is purely theoretical speculation (sorry Kedar), but I am quite excited about the prospect of having an air-bearing, linear-tracking tonearm on a platform as anvil stable as the AS-2000.

Ron,

As you know I have a Galder/Odin with a ZYX ULTimate Optimum cartridge. It sits on a vibraplane which sits on a 600 pound marble stability table. i totally agree that the Bergmann is just not there, although, when you start getting really tweaky with the arm, you can so clearly hear every change.

just this morning i was speaking with Fabio at ALMA who sold and set up my Bergmann (in NJ) about adjusting VTA, which I had not done before. I am so impressed with the design and how audible tiny changes are. It is hard to imagine what it will sound like mounted on a
AS-2000. It should be amazing.

Some day Johnny will come up with an auto-lift at the end of the record and maybe a slighly different cuing system to reduce quick drops, which by the way i learned to compensate for after several tries.

It is a superb design and wonderfully made.