Atma-Sphere Class D Mono blocks

[D.Duttilleux]

To put phenomena such as VC heating, power compression, etc. into perspective, it is useful to draw inspiration from the past.

By focusing on (increasing) system efficiency, it is very unlikely that you will ever encounter such problems in a home environment.
Moreover, you also get a number of extra 'features'.


My brother has extensively experienced the system below, which is (theoretically) efficient enough to be powered by the output of an iPhone.

 

[bonzo75]

My brother has extensively experienced the system below, which is (theoretically) efficient enough to be powered by the output of an iPhone.

View attachment 118722

Can you please clarify his extensive experience with the GIP?

 

[bonzo75]

The new world in this link is being played on the above GIP

魅惑の「励磁」の世界にようこそ | 励磁の会第３回オフ会をGIPで開催しています、全てのサウンドを社長にオリジナルセッティングして頂き堪能し... | Facebook

励磁の会第３回オフ会をGIPで開催しています、全てのサウンドを社長にオリジナルセッティングして頂き堪能しています、合間に交わす皆さんの会話も、音を語るには音楽を知る、更には作曲者のもとめた音は何か・・・、美の音の追求は果てしないです^_^

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[D.Duttilleux]

Can you please clarify his extensive experience with the GIP?

In order not too drift off topic: it's all about the merits of high efficiency, even with 1.5 Watts output power.
Bearing in mind the FC technology that differs from loudspeaker systems with permanent magnets as well as the limited bandwidth, especially in the (sub-)bass.

 

[Audiohertz2]

High powered amps are available everywhere today , the continuous high efficiency mantra and 2 watt straw man argument aside ..!

Its horses for course , a high sensitive speaker as unbalanced as the one above need a 2-3 watt SET amp for balance , a high powered anything would let it sound , well, unbalanced..!

Match an SET amp to appropriate speakers and magic , Match a high powered amp to appropriate speakers and magic ..!

Key is system desires and matching ....

Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

No, it is definitely an issue with home audio. The drivers are not design to withstand impulses that heat the coils quickly and cool down slowly. You can lose several dB on peaks…just where you need it most is where flattens out. This is why horns and other high sensitivity speakers give greater dynamics…they still compress but at much higher than typical domestic volumes. They are usually playing with mW (mA) rather than heating up with Watts (A).

Many designs give great dynamics not just horns , BTW many find very few horns listenable or with dynamics ..!

I do find most modern SS amps lacking in drive , but when correct and matched to load can match toobs in every category ..

Cant account for subjective tastes thou


Regards

 

[morricab]

High powered amps are available everywhere today , the continuous high efficiency mantra and 2 watt straw man argument aside ..!

Its horses for course , a high sensitive speaker as unbalanced as the one above need a 2-3 watt SET amp for balance , a high powered anything would let it sound , well, unbalanced..!

Match an SET amp to appropriate speakers and magic , Match a high powered amp to appropriate speakers and magic ..!

Key is system desires and matching ....

Regards

You cannot overcome compression effects with more power…you will get to a point where more power = 0dB increase in SPL.

The onset with lowish sensitivity speakers is quite early even at home listening levels.

Pros use high sensitivity and high power because they try to get over 120dB for large venue coverage…at home mW are often enough and the speaker is far from compression effects

I saw a demo once with Harbeth speakers and CH mono amps with power readout. They were hitting close to 1000 watts on the readout and yet people could somehow be in the room relatively close to them. Clearly they were beyond the point of getting any louder with more power…surprised something didn’t break.

 

[morricab]

Many designs give great dynamics not just horns , BTW many find very few horns listenable or with dynamics ..!

I do find most modern SS amps lacking in drive , but when correct and matched to load can match toobs in every category ..

Cant account for subjective tastes thou


Regards

The dynamics of a property designed and setup horn system is unsurpassed. I have heard all of the big boy cone/dome/box speakers and they really don’t come close and start to sound strained. The only one that did a passable job, IMO, was the original Wilson X1, which was a true 95dB.

I did hear one of the latest Von Schweikert speakers sound pretty dynamic but then you hear a good horn setup and think, yup that’s real dynamics.

 

[morricab]

Power compression Vs Thermal distortion in loudspeaker drivers

Power compression Vs Thermal distortion Power compression is the common term for one of the audible effects of voice coil heating / overheating, i.e.

www.linkedin.com

 

[DasguteOhr]

You cannot overcome compression effects with more power…you will get to a point where more power = 0dB increase in SPL.

The onset with lowish sensitivity speakers is quite early even at home listening levels.

Pros use high sensitivity and high power because they try to get over 120dB for large venue coverage…at home mW are often enough and the speaker is far from compression effects

I saw a demo once with Harbeth speakers and CH mono amps with power readout. They were hitting close to 1000 watts on the readout and yet people could somehow be in the room relatively close to them. Clearly they were beyond the point of getting any louder with more power…surprised something didn’t break.

They only break if the amp is operated far above the clipping limit. The tweeters and midrange drivers die first. Because high distortions, the harmonics k3, k5 ..k7 etc, significantly damage the drivers. Bass drivers almost don't die because the harmonics are outside the transmission range.
Most damage only occurs with weak transistor amplifiers.

 

[Audiohertz2]

You cannot overcome compression effects with more power…you will get to a point where more power = 0dB increase in SPL.

The onset with lowish sensitivity speakers is quite early even at home listening levels.

Pros use high sensitivity and high power because they try to get over 120dB for large venue coverage…at home mW are often enough and the speaker is far from compression effects

I saw a demo once with Harbeth speakers and CH mono amps with power readout. They were hitting close to 1000 watts on the readout and yet people could somehow be in the room relatively close to them. Clearly they were beyond the point of getting any louder with more power…surprised something didn’t break.

It’s academic mate , It’s the same for all speakers , so less discuss in absolute terms as every loudspeaker has a max SPL limit ..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

The dynamics of a property designed and setup horn system is unsurpassed. I have heard all of the big boy cone/dome/box speakers and they really don’t come close and start to sound strained. The only one that did a passable job, IMO, was the original Wilson X1, which was a true 95dB.

I did hear one of the latest Von Schweikert speakers sound pretty dynamic but then you hear a good horn setup and think, yup that’s real dynamics.

Because they are using small box single point source tech to build large speakers so they are dynamically limited due to having one tweeter , one tweeter surrounded by a dozen woofers will only grow in the bass, its not gonna do what a horn does but can be better elsewhere ..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

The dynamics of a property designed and setup horn system is unsurpassed. I have heard all of the big boy cone/dome/box speakers and they really don’t come close and start to sound strained. The only one that did a passable job, IMO, was the original Wilson X1, which was a true 95dB.

I did hear one of the latest Von Schweikert speakers sound pretty dynamic but then you hear a good horn setup and think, yup that’s real dynamics.

Can you name these Horns ..??

 

[D.Duttilleux]

My brother has extensively experienced the system below, which is (theoretically) efficient enough to be powered by the output of an iPhone.

My brother (also) demoed for and with Audio Note UK, which introduced me to the 'philosophy' of AN.
I'm not a fanboy by any means, but I see the value in AN's approach to audio.

Yesterday I came across this article, which is not only related to this topic, but also resonates strongly with my own frame of reference:

Resources: Common Power Amplifier Myths

Myths about Current availability (or reserve), Voltage amplifiers vs. Current amplifiers, and Load sensitivity.

www.atma-sphere.com

 

[morricab]

It’s academic mate , It’s the same for all speakers , so less discuss in absolute terms as every loudspeaker has a max SPL limit ..!

The onset is not the same for all speakers…it depends on the voice coil design, ventilation, size of the coil, layers etc. Sensitivity matters a lot as there will be an offset to where the compression starts becoming a noticeable problem….even if all else is the same.
Again it’s not about max SPL it’s about easily accessed SPL without significant deviation from linearity over the period of a dynamic peak.

 

[D.Duttilleux]

The onset is not the same for all speakers…it depends on the voice coil design, ventilation, size of the coil, layers etc. Sensitivity matters a lot as there will be an offset to where the compression starts becoming a noticeable problem….even if all else is the same.
Again it’s not about max SPL it’s about easily accessed SPL without significant deviation from linearity over the period of a dynamic peak.

More importantly: number of drivers in a system, passband (bass vs. midrange), cabinet tuning, etc.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Can you name these Horns ..??

This ...!!!!

 

[D.Duttilleux]

To illustrate the importance of 'correct' application, let's take the upper midbass horn of the Aries Cerat Contendo II system.
It appears to be a (ca. 100 Hz) Tractrix horn which "is loaded from 110-550 Hz with a very special WE555 compression driver replica".




That 555 replica looks suspiciously similar to the Lamar M1 and M2, but could also be a proprietary product.
Now, unless they've incorporated some physics defying magic, this system (driver+horn) is a balancing act.

Although the net sensitivity will undoubtedly be high, the aperture(diaphragm) is small in relation to the horn and passband.

This is the response of a similar horn, but loaded with an 8" woofer:



Impedance:



It's an apples and oranges comparison because of the drivers used (1" comp. driver vs. 8" cone), but it is clear that the horn only provides loading > 100 Hz.
The 555 replica in the Aries Cerat upper bass horn will be loud enough, even for medium sized theaters, provided no THX standards are required. However, power handling is of course strictly limited.
Take a number of these horn+driver combinations as (hypothetical) 'long throw upper bass infill' to a techno event in a large hall or open air, connect them to a (Powersoft) amp rack as part of the (horn loaded) PA system and the voice coil will emit the magic smoke in no time.

 

[ozzzy]

Man, those are some pretty impressive drivers!
Back to the original thread, how would the bass compare to other A/B Power amps?

ozzy

 

[Carlos269]

To illustrate the importance of 'correct' application, let's take the upper midbass horn of the Aries Cerat Contendo II system.
It appears to be a (ca. 100 Hz) Tractrix horn which "is loaded from 110-550 Hz with a very special WE555 compression driver replica".

View attachment 118841
View attachment 118842

That 555 replica looks suspiciously similar to the Lamar M1 and M2, but could also be a proprietary product.
Now, unless they've incorporated some physics defying magic, this system (driver+horn) is a balancing act.

Although the net sensitivity will undoubtedly be high, the aperture(diaphragm) is small in relation to the horn and passband.

This is the response of a similar horn, but loaded with an 8" woofer:

View attachment 118843

Impedance:
View attachment 118844


It's an apples and oranges comparison because of the drivers used (1" comp. driver vs. 8" cone), but it is clear that the horn only provides loading > 100 Hz.
The 555 replica in the Aries Cerat upper bass horn will provide ample output, even for medium sized theaters, provided no THX standards are required.
Take a number of these horn+driver combinations as (hypothetical) 'long throw upper bass infill' to a techno event in a large hall or open air, connect them to a (Powersoft) amp rack as part of the (horn loaded) PA system and the voice coil will emit the magic smoke in no time.

The horn driver is the Horn Solutions 666 driver with Aries Cerat emblem engraved on the body and not a Lamar driver.