Audio Note UK vs Audio Japan Sonic Differences

[mtemur]

Souga is listed in May 2023 price list. It’s not a mainstream product but IMHO it’s available upon order. At least for a while. Just like M7 phono used to be a couple of years ago.

All Kondo amplifiers sound close to each other cause same silver components used inside each of them and they’re voiced 6 months before launch. IMHO reference models sound better than the rest. It’s up to your choice of tubes.

The most important thing with Kondo or any brand to sound it’s best is solving issue of electricity. The one who solves electricity (grounding, dedicated lines, receptacles, plugs etc) solves the sound.

IMHO instead of amplifier differences it’s best to focus on electricity first, trying to find which dedicated AC line is best, what kind of tweaks should be placed under that line, which receptacle case sounds better etc. Additionally I always feel like 230V sounds more dynamic, better control on bass compared to 100V. It’s not easy to try both. It’s just how I feel about it but I’m not sure. I don’t like Audio Research but I prefer it with good electricity over Kondo with poor electricity.

BTW battery sounds slow and lifeless and ups solutions like stromtank is a gimmick that doesn’t help. They demonstrate stromtank by switching on and off without unplugging cables and directly connecting to the wall. It didn‘t sound good 8 years ago and still doesn’t. You’ll understand what I’m saying when you unplug your cables from stromtank and plug them to a dedicated line

 

[Rhapsody]

Souga is listed in May 2023 price list. It’s not a mainstream product but IMHO it’s available upon order. At least for a while. Just like M7 phono used to be a couple of years ago.

All Kondo amplifiers sound close to each other cause same silver components used inside each of them and they’re voiced 6 months before launch. IMHO reference models sound better than the rest. It’s up to your choice of tubes.

The most important thing with Kondo or any brand to sound it’s best is solving issue of electricity. The one who solves electricity (grounding, dedicated lines, receptacles, plugs etc) solves the sound.

IMHO it’s best to focus on electricity, trying to find which dedicated AC line is best, what kind of tweaks should be placed under that line, which receptacle case sounds better etc. Additionally I always feel like 230V sounds more dynamic, better controlled on bass compared to 100V. It’s not easy to try both. I don’t like Audio Research but I prefer it with good electricity over Kondo with poor electricity.

BTW battery sounds slow and lifeless and ups solutions like stromtank is a gimmick that doesn’t help. They demonstrate stromtank by switching on and off without unplugging cables and directly connecting to the wall. It didn‘t sound good 8 years ago and still doesn’t. You’ll understand what I’m saying when you unplug your cables from stromtank and plug them to a dedicated line

The Souga is discontinued and will no longer be made, even on special order.

 

[mtemur]

The Souga is discontinued and will no longer be made, even on special order.

Ok. you are better informed than me, my bad. Thanks for updating.

 

[Rhapsody]

Ok. you are better informed than me, my bad. Thanks for updating.

Not a problem, I just happen to be in touch daily with Charles, Masaki-san etc. I actually got the last Souga that was made for a customer. There are certain components in the Souga that are no longer available hence the reason for the discontinuance of the Souga.

 

[Amir]

If you know how to setup an audio system and find a match speaker for kondo amplifiers then you can judge the sound. Simple A vs B vs C tests all are not the right way for audio judgments.
Internet is full of these type of judgment so I do not trust what I read there.

All Kondo products are audio jewelry for me , between tube amplifiers in tehran I think no tube amplifier even come close to kondo .

 

[mtemur]

I think no tube amplifier even come close to kondo .

+1

 

[Richard Austen]

Kondo Souga uses 2A3 tubes and still in production. All 300B tubes are DHT as well as 2A3, 211, 45 etc.

Perhaps they need to update their website because the Souga is not listed https://www.audionote.co.jp/en/products/

They're SET amps what I meant to say is that there is a strong opinion from many that Parallel Single Ended is not as good as non-parallel single-ended. SET fans feel that the added tubes and more power are a compromise and that such amps degrade over time. I have not experienced this myself in terms of degrading but on sound quality, I prefer the non-parallel SET amps: I would take the Paladin (45) or Vindicator (2a3) over my Empress Silvers or parallel SETs.

 

[Richard Austen]

This is certainly one perspective, but not the perspective shared by Kondo Japan. Go and read the message from Kondo’s founder (it’s somewhere here). He CERTAINLY did not feel that Peter ’helped design or voice the products’. I happen to agree with Kondo, not AN; but you can make up your own mind. My point here is that this is Peter’s POV, not Kondo’s.

I think the proof is in the products now eh? According to Peter - AN Japan made several prototypes and Peter chose which ones were good enough to show. They battled over the topology as Peter was dead set against push-pull while Kondo-san was moving to push-pull amps. Peter has kept all the SET amplifiers in continuous production - Kondo now seems "mostly" focussed on Push Pull and Parallel Single Ended and dumped all their Non-Parallel Single Ended SET amps. But yeah we were not in the rooms when these guys had their disagreements and Kondo-san isn't around to defend himself - though I do wonder why he made the post on audioasylum and then never tried to disprove Peter wrong when Peter replied.

Still, when it comes to "design belief" the current Kondo dumped all the Kondo-designed SET amps - their only integrated amp on their website is a bloody EL34 push-pull design (and the Ongaku they list as a power amp). And then how long before these get discontinued?

 

[Richard Austen]

i've never heard ANUK but i can confidently say Kondo Overture pm-2i sounding better then a Shindo Monbirson (last gen)+Shindo Montile cv391 combo paired with LV speakers.

Shindo are known to have the best sounding preamps out there..

I find you have to go more upmarket with Shindo - I liked the Vosne Romanee and Petrus on the preamps and the guys here seem not to like their power amps nearly as much (one runs a Petrus/ AN Kegon and the dealer here had the Romanee on Analog Domain monoblocks). At that time I was considering the Romanee pretty hard but the dealer went out of business here and that was sort of it. I didn't much care for the Monbrison. I can't speak to the power amp but perhaps you want to go up to the Vosne Romanee and try that one.

One problem is that when the stuff has issues you don't want just anybody servicing it - you want a dealer well versed with the gear. Then when Ken Shindo passed away - similar to Kondo-San - and with dealers closing I got a bit antsy as to the long-term viability of owning it. It's similar to cars. If I buy a Toyota Camry and it breaks anywhere in Canada or the US - you can get parts - any parts like right now. If you own a Volvo - good luck. You'll wait 6 months and it will cost 10 times the price. Sound quality is important and all but sometimes choosing the 2nd or 3rd choice makes practically more sense if it has other attributes.

This is what scared me off buying a Pureaudio One integrated out of New Zealand. One of the rare SS amps I actually really liked but it's one of those "what if it goes wrong?" deals. The designer passed away - the company closed and now you may be stuck when it needs repairs/parts.

A dealer here noted that there are Mark Levinson amps that have some part inside that if it fails you can't get a replacement - it can't be repaired and they don't want to know you if you have issues. I recently watched YouTube video about the same thing from Adrian of Audio Excellence in Canada about ML.

 

[Richard Austen]

Souga is listed in May 2023 price list. It’s not a mainstream product but IMHO it’s available upon order. At least for a while. Just like M7 phono used to be a couple of years ago.

All Kondo amplifiers sound close to each other cause same silver components used inside each of them and they’re voiced 6 months before launch. IMHO reference models sound better than the rest. It’s up to your choice of tubes.

The most important thing with Kondo or any brand to sound it’s best is solving issue of electricity. The one who solves electricity (grounding, dedicated lines, receptacles, plugs etc) solves the sound.

IMHO instead of amplifier differences it’s best to focus on electricity first, trying to find which dedicated AC line is best, what kind of tweaks should be placed under that line, which receptacle case sounds better etc. Additionally I always feel like 230V sounds more dynamic, better control on bass compared to 100V. It’s not easy to try both. It’s just how I feel about it but I’m not sure. I don’t like Audio Research but I prefer it with good electricity over Kondo with poor electricity.

BTW battery sounds slow and lifeless and ups solutions like stromtank is a gimmick that doesn’t help. They demonstrate stromtank by switching on and off without unplugging cables and directly connecting to the wall. It didn‘t sound good 8 years ago and still doesn’t. You’ll understand what I’m saying when you unplug your cables from stromtank and plug them to a dedicated line

Well, rarely do folks seem to talk about the tubes. Smaller brands like Shindo I have been told use very expensive quality rare NOS tubes in their amplifiers - part of the price paid is the fact that you are getting very premium tubes included with the unit. Thus, in order to keep the great sound when the tube fails you may need to spend thousands of dollars for the replacement tubes.

So when folks discuss tube amp sound quality. Brand X sells their 300B tube amp say with $4000 WE tubes - brand Y comes with $300 Chinese tubes - brand Y sells 300 amplifiers for every tube amp Brand X sells so they have to sell them with tubes they can actually get in quantity. When comparing amp X and Y - did one make sure all the tubes were exactly the same in both amplifiers? And some tube amps may like one tube and not the other. For instance, the Elrog 211 sounds like dogshit in the AN UK Jinro - that same tube sounds fine in other amps (from Melody Valve Audio for instance). Takatsuki 300b and sounds way better than stock cheapo Chinese tubes in the Meishu and AN's Molybdenum 4242E/211 sounds way better than the Chinese and Elrog options they had for the Jinro.

 

[mtemur]

AN Japan made several prototypes and Peter chose which ones were good enough to show. They battled over the topology as Peter was dead set against push-pull while Kondo-san was moving to push-pull amps.

LOL.

Kondo now seems "mostly" focussed on Push Pull and Parallel Single Ended and dumped all their Non-Parallel Single Ended SET amps.

Then, how do you fit Ongaku in that claim? It is the most famous product in Kondo line, still in production and SET.

 

[Audiocrack]

If I am informed correctly the Ongaku will stay in production, albeit that the Kondo engineers are working on a new version of this ‘evergreen’.

 

[Amir]

I agree SET is better than Push-Pull but these are on papers, In my opinion the most important factor for tube amplifiers is not about SET vs Push-Pull or SET vs parallel SET or ...
All of these debates are meaningless when your tube amplifier and speakers are perfect match.


Kevin (Designer of Living Voice) designed his loudspeakers with kondo gakuon push-pull 300b .

I love both Kondo and AN UK (Kondo is king for me) but I do not Judge Kondo for having push-pull amplifiers and I do not think AN UK is better for going for SET amplifiers.

I really thanks Kondo-San for introducing these audio Jewelry to my world.

If Kondo does not produce DAC or some amplifiers it means this market is not good enough.

 

[Audiocrack]

Kevin of Living voice indeed designed his top of the line horn loudspeakers with the Gakuoh push pull mk I amps because (at least in the period he designed those transducers) he preferred those push pull amps to the Gakuoh single ended mk I amps.

 

[Amir]

I am not sure but I think Kevin chooses Push-pull because Vitavox S2 drivers had better sound with push pull kondo not SET.

 

[Amir]

Matching of amplifier/crossover/Driver is so much critical for sound. A match amplifier/speaker gives you magical sound, perfect bass + perfect tone + full dynamics
Audiopax has an article about that

 

[DasguteOhr]

Matching of amplifier/crossover/Driver is so much critical for sound. A match amplifier/speaker gives you magical sound, perfect bass + perfect tone + full dynamics
Audiopax has an article about that

That's right, loudspeakers that fluctuate greatly in impedance are poison for amplifiers without global feed back. You can listen to it and you may like it, but it has nothing to do with linear frequency response. sometimes it is simply better to insert a calculated RCL element for an impedance peak into the xover. Or choose a speaker that has the straightest possible impedance curve between 200hz-10khz.
The areas above and below are rather uncritical for the ear.
P.S
That's why a pushpull amp can sometimes sound significantly better than a set amp because of the feedback

 

[Audiocrack]

I am not sure but I think Kevin chooses Push-pull because Vitavox S2 drivers had better sound with push pull kondo not SET.

I am sure because I talked intensively with him before I bought the pp Gakuoh mk I amps from him.

 

[Audiocrack]

That's right, loudspeakers that fluctuate greatly in impedance are poison for amplifiers without global feed back. You can listen to it and you may like it, but it has nothing to do with linear frequency response. sometimes it is simply better to insert a calculated RCL element for an impedance peak into the xover. Or choose a speaker that has the straightest possible impedance curve between 200hz-10khz.
The areas above and below are rather uncritical for the ear.
P.S
That's why a pushpull amp can sometimes sound significantly better than a set amp because of the feedback

Totally agree. The Gakuoh mk I pp amps sound significantly better than the Gakuoh mk I se amps in combination with my Tidal La Assoluta loudspeakers.

 

[sjs]

Perhaps they need to update their website because the Souga is not listed https://www.audionote.co.jp/en/products/

it is listed at the end of the list of discontinued power amplifiers

Discontinued Products List | AUDIO NOTE

www.audionote.co.jp