Baffled about computer power
- Thread starter mauidan
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I tend to disagree - its measurable, sure but not 'easily'. I have tried, and yes Nugent is right, its common-mode noise related. Presence of out-of-band noise decreases the dynamics and its certainly visible in a change in the noisefloor when music's playing, using an FFT if you look hard enough. Noise modulation in other words. But FFTs are rather insensitive to noise as they're best for showing up narrowband phenomena.
As we've said before, jitter and noise are the biggest issues with computer audio; there are a number of older Mach2Music threads on audiogon about how a good power supply can reduce noise, and consequently improve the sound. This is real, not voodoo. I had posted a year or more ago that exactly because you can't really control jitter and noise in PCs, DIY PC-based servers are not for me and will never outperform an excellent transport; I have since then discounted any PC-based server for serious audio reproduction. There are also folks here who hear very large differences with digital cables between their PC servers and USB reclocking devices - all they are doing is really managing noise better.
Don't you know that a $500. PC will wipe the floor with your transport?
Maybe you missed this statement from post #278 in Let's Talk Computer Audio thread:
Naaah... from a couple of discussions with the local dealer, they have also not been able to get close to top-transport level performance from the commercial music servers. Bernice from Spectral also said a while ago in the SDR-4000SL thread that they didn't include a USB input because of the all the noise. To me, a PC-based server is good for convenience and for playing hi-rez PCM digital, otherwise unavailable from high end transports. Just went back to my emails, some folks have also told me they heard huge differences between SPDI/F cables connecting the Berkeley USB and the DAC - basically, more noise seeping through to the DAC and managed by cables with in-series isolation transformers and all...
If there was ever a double-blind test called for, listening to a properly set up music server against a stand-alone CD player or transport + DAC would be real high on the list. After all, DBTs have shown that people can't tell the difference between an English muffin and a NY pizza so straining to hear the difference between bit perfect players hooked to the same DAC should really boggle the mind.
Devert,
No, we did not miss it. IMHO, just the usual typical statement about being cheap, sounding good, audiophile mentality and enjoying the music. Nothing new.
Yes, I would love to take part in a comparison between a PC based music server and the Vivaldi CD/SACD transport using the DCS Vivaldi DAC. It is my only possibility of ever owning the great sounding Vivaldi DAC. But from people I talked to and who tried it, the Vivaldi transport sounded much better and is almost mandatory in this system. To the point that one gave up on his decision to buy DCS.
Objectively, the measurements show superlative results when the right gear is used. Here is my standard work-laptop, with a ton of apps and stuff running on it, driving a Berkeley Alpha USB to my more than 10 year old Mark Levinson 360S Dac using async USB:
Only two correlated spikes are are visible at <-120 dB. That is distortion product below the noise level of a 20 bit signal. Again, this is driving an old but well designed DAC.
There is no cheaper and more convenient way to get into "high-end" audio than getting a good async USB and pairing it with the DAC of your choice. These devices get the best out of any DAC.
As soon as you can get two people to agree on what a "properly set up music server" is, what playback software to use, what music file format to use, what stand-alone CD player or transport + DAC to compare it to, what cables to use, what isolation platform(s) to use and what power conditioner to use, you run your double-blind test.;-)
$1,895 for a Berkeley Alpha USB converter is hardly a cheap way to get into "high-end" audio.
You should persuade Berkeley Alpha that RHOS compliant solder sounds as good as the old poisonous solder they are using. They do not believe it ...
I would love to have tried it when I hosted the Devialet. Did you ever compare the sound of the 360S using the Alpha USB with the ML31.5?I didn't know "high-end" audio was defined that low
. But sure, you can step down to Audiophilleo which I also test. Its performance is still superb. And it retails for $500. I have not tested others but there are much cheaper adapters down to $200 or so. You can take an obsolete PC that costs nothing and combine the two and you have a $300 "transport."I heard them make that argument. It just isn't something I have experience with so I was not going to argue one way or the otherYou should persuade Berkeley Alpha that RHOS compliant solder sounds as good as the old poisonous solder they are using. They do not believe it ...
.I don't have an ML31.5. The last transport I bought was a decade ago, a Linn CD player, and that was it. I switched to PC playback and never looked back.
I didn't know "high-end" audio was defined that low
Why would you want to use a converter over a DAC with a high performance async USB input?
Extra cable, hub powered..I can't imagine this the best set up unless you have an older DAC without a USB input
that you are married to,
Seems to me this is not the measurement to make when the intention is to reveal loss of dynamics due to presence of OOB noise. For that you want a multitone stimulus to ensure lots of IMD generation. A single sine gives very few intermod products.
Oh, no, you can't go by the noise floor in those measurements.
Due to the way FFT works, if you keep increasing the samples you use to analyze the spectrum, it will proportionally *show* lower and lower noise floor. Therefore the dB values you see there for noise cannot be used as is. They don't represent the actual noise floor of the product. You can back out that "process gain" if you know the number of samples used (I have not looked for what stereophile uses). So for now, the only thing you can go by there are the level of distortion spikes. Those remain the same and are no subject to this issue. At -125, they are almost the same as what I had in my DAC and represents around 20 dB headroom above distortion.- Status
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