Best audiophile switch

[kennyb123]

Show me the data, I'm always willing to learn. If not, shut thy piehole ;-)

Neither of us can know how he leverages empirical data in his design process. Given what he’s achieved, it’s very likely he does . Given the sophistication of his designs, I think it’s rather foolish to imagine that he lacks empirical data. But I am looking at it like an adult.

 

[Di-fi]

Show me the data, I'm always willing to learn. If not, shut thy piehole ;-)

There will always be audiophiles who want proof when others claim to hear something. It’s understandable—many people need evidence to be convinced. But hey, if you're open to learning, that's great! If not, well, let's keep it civil.

 

[sbo6]

Neither of us can know how he leverages empirical data in his design process. Given what he’s achieved, it’s very likely he does . Given the sophistication of his designs, I think it’s rather foolish to imagine that he lacks empirical data. But I am looking at it like an adult.

What are you, Emile's son or do you own stock in Taiko? Relax.

I made statement alluding to the reality that - much in the audio industry doesn't have data backing purported results, that's a fact.

But you take it to a personal level. Take it down a level, Kenny.

 

[sbo6]

There will always be audiophiles who want proof when others claim to hear something. It’s understandable—many people need evidence to be convinced. But hey, if you're open to learning, that's great! If not, well, let's keep it civil.

And there will always be audiophiles who categorize all audiophiles into two groups - those that need proof and those that don't. If only all things in life and audio were that simple.

I "need" nothing, but I observe everything. And the answer is - it depends, what claim, what sonic benefit and what does the data (reviewers, owners) tell me. But most of all I listen and A B when practically applicable. And over many years I've found many tweaks / upgrades yield little to nothing (sometimes the result is worse!) yet the reviews and owners rave about the benefits. It's easy to want to hear a difference in switches (for example) especially if someone is telling you that you will. It's part of being human.

Here's an easy way to tell how much your external network and switch matter sonically - Pick a song, start playing with your ethernet cable(s) connected. Then have someone disconnect the switch's cable to your server/streamer. If your streamer allows continued playing of the song, listen. I bet you'll be surprised. ;-)

As always, Happy Listening!

 

[Di-fi]

And there will always be audiophiles who categorize all audiophiles into two group - those that need proof and those that don't. If only all in life and audio were that simple.

I "need" nothing, but I observe everything. And the answer is - it depends, what claim, what sonic benefit and what does the data (reviewers, owners) tell me. But most of all I listen and A B when practically applicable. And over many years I've found many tweaks / upgrades yield little to nothing (sometimes the result is worse!) yet the reviews and owners rave about the benefits. It's easy to want to hear a difference in switches (for example) especially if someone is telling you that you will. It's part of being human.

Here's an easy way to tell how much your external network and switch matter sonically - Pick a song, start playing with your ethernet cable(s) connected. Then have someone disconnect the switch's cable to your server/streamer. If your streamer allows continued playing of the song, listen. I bet you'll be surprised. ;-)

As always, Happy Listening!

Indeed, it's crucial to rely on both your ears and the experiences of others. Your nuanced approach recognizes the complexity of audio gear evaluation, and it encourages others to stay critical and curious.

Regarding your audiophile switch for your Music PC streaming setup, am I correct your OCX clock + EtherRegen combo is fed by the Paul Heynes SR4T and not the HD-plex? Do you mind sharing if you use a- and b sides on the eR?

Happy listening to you as well!

 

[sbo6]

Indeed, it's crucial to rely on both your ears and the experiences of others. Your nuanced approach recognizes the complexity of audio gear evaluation, and it encourages others to stay critical and curious.

Am I correct your OCX clock + EtherRegen combo is fed by the Paul Heynes SR4T? Do you mind sharing if you use a- or b sides?

Happy listening to you as well!

My TD streamer is plugged into the B side and all others into the A side. Both the OCX clock and EtherRegen are powered by an HDPlex PSU, the PH SR4T powers the JCAT nic in the server.

 

[NigelB]

Regarding the two switches, how does Reiki (@NigelB) explain the function of the first switch compared to the second one, just before the streamer? Additionally, why would you choose to use two switches and not three?

I'd say Reiki Audio offers the option of using two switches, rather than recommending this. Let's keep the exploration of why generic as I think it broadly applies regardless of which good quality audio-optimised switch we're talking about:

By some margin, the most important switch (whichever brand/model it may be) is the one just before the streamer. If it is a highly effective switch, this will kill/remove almost all incoming noise and send a clean signal out to the streamer. The cable from switch to streamer is an opportunity for the ingress of more noise, so keeping this as short as possible makes huge sense (hence "just before the streamer" in physical proximity terms and not just the last pre-streamer node in the network regardless of distance).

Cascading/daisychaining switches: I guess it depends on the quality of the switch but I know from experience that installing one SuperSwitch (or indeed any other switch) immediately before a SuperSwitch makes a small difference if any (I guess it depends on how noisy the network is in the first place. If you were using a generic Netgear or whatever which gets rid of an illustrative 80% of the noise reaching it and lets 20% through then sticking another one of the same before it will compound that up to 96% stopped 4% through.... It's an approach, I guess, and one which might be necessary because of a limited budget. But if you can afford one really good switch then for most people it's the way to go: just one excellent switch rather than 2 or 3 mediocre ones.

Second switch at router: however, some people can have a large number of non-audio devices attached to the same router/network and they're concerned this might be stopping their audio devices from operating at their very best. I know some folk have started to explore using a completely separate router dedicated to audio for this reason, but setting up an entriely separate network for audio feels like overkill for the sonic benefits it might bring... Installing a high quality switch immediately after the router and hanging the audio network off this will give the same sonic benefits, and a good number of folk I know are pleased they've done this. I have a relatively quiet network myself but of course still use a second switch just after the router (I get staff discount!); however, I don't use more than one SuperSwitch just before the streamer because it doesn't bring anything to the party.

There will be other views and I look forward to hearing them, but that's my own take. Hope this helps someone!

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

know some folk have started to explore using a completely separate router dedicated to audio for this reason, but setting up an entriely separate network for audio feels like overkill for the sonic benefits it might bring...

Hi Nigel,

thanks for your contribution to this thread. Yes, I’m one of those who have built a separate Network, included a dedicated contract with ISP from outside the house (fiber) and router used for music purposes only. Not only. I have experienced different switches (SR, Innuos PNET and recently NA Tempus. Not only. I also added a NA Muon Pro filter, from the switch to the streamer. Last but not least, I tried several Ethernet cables and ended up with STEALTH ULTRA (from router to switch) and Pink Faun Interlink (from switch to Muon Pro). Oh… I don’t use WiFi, completely disabled on the router, so my controller (iPad) is hardwired connected to the router. A Sean Jacobs PSU is feeding the router and router and switch (like all the other components) are grounded to a few CAD GC1.1 (one for each).

Overkill? Probably… It’s only rock and roll, but I like it!

 

[NigelB]

Love this, @luca.pelliccioli : no stone unturned and all that!

 

[jasond]

@luca.pelliccioli My journey of comparisons over the many years also brought me to a Network Acoustics Muon Pro with Tempus switch. You might also like me upgrade the fuse to a SR Pink to gain an even better performance. Also IsoAcoustics has some interesting products to further improve things.

 

[sbo6]

I'd say Reiki Audio offers the option of using two switches, rather than recommending this. Let's keep the exploration of why generic as I think it broadly applies regardless of which good quality audio-optimised switch we're talking about:

By some margin, the most important switch (whichever brand/model it may be) is the one just before the streamer. If it is a highly effective switch, this will kill/remove almost all incoming noise and send a clean signal out to the streamer. The cable from switch to streamer is an opportunity for the ingress of more noise, so keeping this as short as possible makes huge sense (hence "just before the streamer" in physical proximity terms and not just the last pre-streamer node in the network regardless of distance).

No slight on you, just leveraging this talking point, but if a switch were designed to be effective, why would you need more than one?

Also, I'm sure Reiki would love it if everyone who bought one, bought two, or three ;-)

 

[Synaxis]

Hi Nigel,

thanks for your contribution to this thread. Yes, I’m one of those who have built a separate Network, included a dedicated contract with ISP from outside the house (fiber) and router used for music purposes only. Not only. I have experienced different switches (SR, Innuos PNET and recently NA Tempus. Not only. I also added a NA Muon Pro filter, from the switch to the streamer. Last but not least, I tried several Ethernet cables and ended up with STEALTH ULTRA (from router to switch) and Pink Faun Interlink (from switch to Muon Pro). Oh… I don’t use WiFi, completely disabled on the router, so my controller (iPad) is hardwired connected to the router. A Sean Jacobs PSU is feeding the router and router and switch (like all the other components) are grounded to a few CAD GC1.1 (one for each).

Overkill? Probably… It’s only rock and roll, but I like it!

My friend Luca - we are STEALTH brothers!!

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

@luca.pelliccioli My journey of comparisons over the many years also brought me to a Network Acoustics Muon Pro with Tempus switch. You might also like me upgrade the fuse to a SR Pink to gain an even better performance. Also IsoAcoustics has some interesting products to further improve things.

You bet! Pink fuse already inserted and HRS Nymbus Assembly + Damping Plates added.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

My friend Luca - we are STEALTH brothers!!

Amen! Remember to give a try to Sakra XLRs as already suggested!

 

[NigelB]

No slight on you, just leveraging this talking point, but if a switch were designed to be effective, why would you need more than one?

Also, I'm sure Reiki would love it if everyone who bought one, bought two, or three ;-)

See above. You do only need one, and I made the same point. I've had people discard a combination of multiple (usually 2, in one case 3) switches and/or filters in favour of the simpler and more effective solo SuperSwitch.

Some people choose to use a separate router, as Luca has above. An alternative to a separate router is a second switch hanging off the single router. Yes, I have an agenda: I sell switches and I don't sell routers!

In my humble opinion, most people "need" just one SuperSwitch deployed in the right place. The same may well (should) apply to any other high performance switch. As per an FAQ on my website, the better the switch the less benefit using 2 or 3 has.

 

[Elliot G.]

I use a single Reiki Superswitch and I think it works great and my system is better than ever.

 

[Di-fi]

one of those who have built a separate Network, included a dedicated contract

Another way to eliminate home network noise is: In for example Europe, where SIM fees are quite affordable, you can set up a 4G LTE router/switch with a very good lps. Simply connect it directly to your streamer using your best short Ethernet cable for optimal performance.

Router / switch ➔ Cable ➔ Streamer/DAC

With this setup you have the option to use either a Wi-Fi connection or if the radio is too noisy (see also below) a wired setup for your controller device. You can add a audiophile switch before connecting to the streamer/ DAC.

Router / switch ➔ Cable ➔ Switch ➔ Cable ➔ Streamer/DAC

I don’t use WiFi, completely disabled on the router, so my controller (iPad) is hardwired connected to the router. A Sean Jacobs PSU is feeding the router and router and switch

You are right, I don't think we can overlook the router. It’s not just the switch that needs attention; the entire network infrastructure—including cables and power supplies—needs to be evaluated to minimize noise interference reaching the streamer/dac. It seems like you didn’t just choose any router. Can you share what model you ended up with?

Also, did you initially test connecting the iPad control device to the switch before using a wired connection through the router?

Finally, as an alternative to using a wired iPad and to minimize the risk of interference AND tripping ;-), you might consider using a Wi-Fi solution like the MikroTik mAP Lite access point connected with a short ethernet cable and operating on the 2.4 GHz band exclusively and with minimal power of 5V / 1.5 W power consumption (use battery if you prefer) it produces virtually no noise.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

In Europe, where SIM fees are quite affordable, you can set up a 4G LTE router with very good lps. Simply connect the router directly to your streamer using your best short Ethernet cable for optimal performance.

I don't think we can overlook the router. It’s not just the switch that needs attention; the entire network infrastructure—including cables and power supplies—needs to be evaluated to minimize noise interference. It seems like you didn’t just choose any router. Can you share what model you ended up with?

Also, did you initially test connecting the iPad control device to the switch before using a wired connection through the router?

Unfortunately my room is a basement, no option for LTE… an iPhone can’t receive calls for instance.

You are right about the router but I’m using the one provided by the ISP and haven’t found yet an alternative able to sport the same input fiber port compliant with ISP specs (GPON). It’s a FritzBox! 5530, fed by a Sean Jacobs PSU DC3. Still looking for a better choice, highly appreciated any recommendations.

I tried a direct connection Router > Server/Streamer with short Ethernet cable, out of curiosity. The switch + Muon Pro solution wins hands off, sonically speaking and the difference is not subtle in my system. Hence my path as above described.

I prefer the iPad connected to the router (in a completely wifi free environment) because it is the “noisy” part of the network, keeping the switch downstream working only the audio signal without any other job to deal with, one input and one output so to speak..

 

[Di-fi]

Unfortunately my room is a basement, no option for LTE… an iPhone can’t receive calls for instance.

You are right about the router but I’m using the one provided by the ISP and haven’t found yet an alternative able to sport the same input fiber port compliant with ISP specs (GPON). It’s a FritzBox! 5530, fed by a Sean Jacobs PSU DC3. Still looking for a better choice, highly appreciated any recommendations.

I tried a direct connection Router > Server/Streamer with short Ethernet cable, out of curiosity. The switch + Muon Pro solution wins hands off, sonically speaking and the difference is not subtle in my system. Hence my path as above described.

I prefer the iPad connected to the router (in a completely wifi free environment) because it is the “noisy” part of the network, keeping the switch downstream working only the audio signal without any other job to deal with, one input and one output so to speak..

No intention to change your mind—I can see you’re happy with your setup. Your chosen solutions have actually inspired me to suggest similar options to other readers. That said, any experiences you shared or devices you recommend are greatly appreciated. I guess we're both waiting for that router suggestion!, @nenon maybe?

 

[treitz3]

Hi Nigel,

thanks for your contribution to this thread. Yes, I’m one of those who have built a separate Network, included a dedicated contract with ISP from outside the house (fiber) and router used for music purposes only. Not only. I have experienced different switches (SR, Innuos PNET and recently NA Tempus. Not only. I also added a NA Muon Pro filter, from the switch to the streamer. Last but not least, I tried several Ethernet cables and ended up with STEALTH ULTRA (from router to switch) and Pink Faun Interlink (from switch to Muon Pro). Oh… I don’t use WiFi, completely disabled on the router, so my controller (iPad) is hardwired connected to the router. A Sean Jacobs PSU is feeding the router and router and switch (like all the other components) are grounded to a few CAD GC1.1 (one for each).

Overkill? Probably… It’s only rock and roll, but I like it!

Hello and good evening to you, Luca. If I may, please let me present you with what I have done. 2 moats and Wi-Fi. The reason I am offering this is just an FYI. IMO/IME, Wi-Fi is not as bad as folks make it out to be. It is an additional moat, and if done correctly? Will yield VERY similar results from that of an Esoteric transport, Mutec REF 10 SE 120, fine cabling in between with both that of my streaming rig and physical music.

The two are VERY hard to tell between each other and some aspects are better on physical versus streaming and vice versa.....on my rig, it really boils down to the music itself. The recording. Mic placement and mastering as to which one is better.

With that said, this was back in February of this year and the entire rig has had upgrades, as well as the streaming rig but it was close to this point that it really didn't matter. Introducing Wi-Fi into a rig's room can and will offer you 1- phone coverage via VOIP. 2 - IME/IMO No degradation to the sound....in fact, an improvement. It's just another layer (moat) to reduce noise. YMMV, as all systems are dependent on a myriad of issues that are completely isolated and system dependent.

Tom