Best phono stage?

[rsorren1]

Regarding the P1, I'd like madfloyd to demonstrate this to me with his similar-to-mine A95, because from the little I have seen, the loadings the wizard selects tend to be around 100ohms, which, sonically, is not ideal.

Ack,
I’m not familiar with the Ortofon cartridges but scanning the specs I wonder if Madfloyd runs his A95 into the current source input of the P1 and therefore does not need the loading. I guess you could try connecting the A95 to the MM input of the P1 and run the wizard to see what you get.

If you are interested in the P1 Wizard, the P1 users guide is available on the CH Precision website and there is more info there. Also, Richard Mak, Mono and Stereo, did a very extensive review of the P1 and discusses the wizard in his review. He tried several different configurations of the P1, made some comparisons to other phono stages and did an excellent job overall. Worth the read.

 

[ack]

I know Ian runs the A95 into the current input. I am just curious what the wizard would do with that cartridge.

 

[PeterA]

In case it is not clear from my prior posts, if your phono preamp is stable (and if you take reasonable care of your LPs) there should be no need for a declicker. People often comment when coming to my home that the LPs seem as silent as the CDs.

When an LP is recorded, the lacquer is very quiet and without any ticks or pops at all (I operate an LP mastering operation so I'm taking from experience). When the lacquer is shipped to the pressing plant, the plant produces a test pressing, which is then shipped to the producer to sign off on. One of the reasons is that a tick or pop might show up in the pressing process so the test is auditioned to insure that such has no occurred. If a producer is sloppy, a defect like a tick or pop might be allowed but it is the exception rather than the norm. The result is that when you buy an LP it is free of ticks and pops, but if your phono section is unstable you will not be able to enjoy or even know this fact.

The above statements suggest to me that the FM Acoustics phono equalizer isn't stable since a declicker really isn't needed. The latter quote seems to underline the stability issue- if a specific cable is needed, that sounds to me like a problem.

Ralph, I have bought many new LPs that are free of ticks and pops. And I have bought some older LPs that are also free of ticks and pops. However, I do have new and old LPs that have ticks and pops. Furthermore, a few LPs seem almost free of them but over time they become more and more audible. So, there must be something else going on with these LPs. Perhaps their condition degrades over time and perhaps not all ticks and pops are a result of an unstable phono stage. In my system, there are just too many variations. I do make extensive use of my Loricraft and KLAudio record cleaning machines and they seem to reduce the ticks and pops.

Most of my LP collection is pretty quiet. Given these different conditions, it seems a difficult task to assess the stability of my phono stage?

 

[garylkoh]

So a well designed phono stage will have NO LOADING options for MC, and you will find a few like that, e.g. the Genesis and the upcoming Spectral Phono - and that's because they do not suffer from UHF resonances, and that's a major feat.

I'm just astonished that someone has actually heard about my phonostage. I was told by a FB friend that it was mentioned

 

[ack]

I'm just astonished that someone has actually heard about my phonostage. I was told by a FB friend that it was mentioned

LOL. You actually wrote about your approach here on WBF, many moons ago. Also, I can't recall who said this, but I think it was said that ticks pops generate ultrasonic artifacts, that are amplified by an unstable design??!??!?

 

[Atmasphere]

Most of my LP collection is pretty quiet. Given these different conditions, it seems a difficult task to assess the stability of my phono stage?

No.

Do you have to load the cartridge to get it to sound right?

 

[PeterA]

No.

Do you have to load the cartridge to get it to sound right?

That is a hard question to answer because it depends on what "right" means. A friend with the same unit loaded it around 300 ohms for a long time preferring that sound and now likes 500 or 1K ohms.

I think my current phono/cartridge/cable combination sounds best at either 1k or 47K ohms and I barely notice a change in tonal balance as I decrease values, increasing the load. I have to go to about 100 to barely hear a difference in bass and high frequencies. The bass is just slightly more pronounced, slower, and thicker sounding and the highs are slightly rolled off at 100, but it is subtle. I hear no difference if wide open at 47K ohms and 1K ohms and a friend told me that there is no reason to set it at 47K, so I have just left it at 1K. Audible differences in loading effecting tonal balance were much more apparent in my last phono stage.

 

[Atmasphere]

I think my current phono/cartridge/cable combination sounds best at either 1k or 47K ohms and I barely notice a change in tonal balance as I decrease values, increasing the load. I have to go to about 100 to barely hear a difference in bass and high frequencies. The bass is just slightly more pronounced, slower, and thicker sounding and the highs are slightly rolled off at 100, but it is subtle. I hear no difference if wide open at 47K ohms and 1K ohms and a friend told me that there is no reason to set it at 47K, so I have just left it at 1K. Audible differences in loading effecting tonal balance were much more apparent in my last phono stage.

That sounds like its pretty stable if you're not hearing a lot of difference as you describe. IMO/IME you are better off at 47K so the cartridge has maximum trackability.

 

[PeterA]

That sounds like its pretty stable if you're not hearing a lot of difference as you describe. IMO/IME you are better off at 47K so the cartridge has maximum trackability.

Thank you Ralph. I will try it at 47K this evening. I appreciate your suggestions and participation in these threads.

 

[PeterA]

That sounds like its pretty stable if you're not hearing a lot of difference as you describe. IMO/IME you are better off at 47K so the cartridge has maximum trackability.

Hi Ralph, After a few evening of listening to my loading at 47K, I can report no adverse sonic effects. In fact, the sound is more open, slightly more dynamic, and more effortless. It is better all around with no noticeable shift in tonal balance. I have made many small changes to the system since the last time I tried loading my cartridge at 47K, so perhaps I am now more able to hear the differences. It sounds good at 1K, but 47K is definitely better. Thank you very much for the suggestion.

 

[ack]

I made the same change last week as well - I was wrong about the bass performance going down. The improvement is really quite sizeable here as well.

 

[PeterA]

I made the same change last week as well - I was wrong about the bass performance going down. The improvement is really quite sizeable here as well.

What a coincidence. I'm surprised that neither of us recognized this before. I suppose it means that the Pass XP-25 is fairly stable. Here is a description of the sound which I just posted on my system thread:

The sound is more open, more dynamic, and more effortless with no noticeable shift in tonal balance. All types of music seem to benefit from solo acoustic instruments to jazz trios to choral music to symphonies. Organs have more air, choirs are more articulate, brass is more incisive and explosive. Bass is richer.

 

[ack]

It appears to be stable, and I still hate all these options they offer for MC. If you were to hear my A90 at 100ohms and lower you would think this cartridge is just dead.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That is great Peter and ack!

Ralph sure knows his stuff! We all are grateful for your participation here, Ralph!

 

[Atmasphere]

Hi Ralph, After a few evening of listening to my loading at 47K, I can report no adverse sonic effects. In fact, the sound is more open, slightly more dynamic, and more effortless. It is better all around with no noticeable shift in tonal balance. I have made many small changes to the system since the last time I tried loading my cartridge at 47K, so perhaps I am now more able to hear the differences. It sounds good at 1K, but 47K is definitely better. Thank you very much for the suggestion.

It appears to be stable, and I still hate all these options they offer for MC. If you were to hear my A90 at 100ohms and lower you would think this cartridge is just dead.

Nelson knows his stuff! Glad y'all got it sorted!

 

[Ron Resnick]

kcin, audiophilebill, others who have the Aesthetix Io -- what has been your experience changing loading settings on the Io?

 

[BruceD]

Hmmm-Interesting on the 47K quotes for optimum MC sonics.

Maybe someone should ask John Curl his thoughts on why he restricted the Vendetta Phono to 10--250 Ohms Variable loading.

Yes 47K is an option but secondary as a resistor change is mandatory.

BruceD

 

[Bruce B]

And here I thought my Doshi phono stage was broken because I couldn't hear a change when I increased/decreased loading!!

 

[Pb Blimp]

Hmmm-Interesting on the 47K quotes for optimum MC sonics.

Maybe someone should ask John Curl his thoughts on why he restricted the Vendetta Phono to 10--250 Ohms Variable loading.

Yes 47K is an option but secondary as a resistor change is mandatory.

BruceD

For that matter, also asking Jonathan Carr why the Atlas and other Lyra Carts are recommended at 800 ohms and less based on cable capacitance even for highly stable phonos stages. I believe each individual cartridge's level of induction is the answer and it is dangerous to make generalizations. (I am certainly not saying Ralph or anyone was doing so just clarifying as it relates to MC settings as a whole.)

 

[Jeffy]

On the Io it depends upon the cartridge. When I had the ZYX UNI 2 I likes it at 450 and at 47K it was too bright. With the Miyahima Madake 47K is best.