Boulder 2110 Series

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,327
886
360
Utah
I'll state that I'm not personally a fan, but that doesn't mean they can't be done right.
Why do you think the problem is with the isolation transformer?

david
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,327
886
360
Utah
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about your comment regarding the design of isolation transformers, or did you mean something else with this comment?

I'll state that I'm not personally a fan, but that doesn't mean they can't be done right.
david
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,327
886
360
Utah
If they produce poor sound why would I think otherwise? I haven't personally heard one that I'd take home.
Isolation transformers don't produce poor sound their function is to isolate a component from the AC source and suppress electrical noise that's all, its effect of this isolated and cleaned electricity on the sound which is the problem.

david
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
4,409
601
220
Eastern WA
Please stop trying to twist obvious implied meaning into annoying catch 22's. If you have it out for me try a PM, thanks.

Removing noise and having clean power is not a problem. How it's done can create as many problems as it fixes, that's overly common.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,327
886
360
Utah
Please stop trying to twist obvious implied meaning into annoying catch 22's. If you have it out for me try a PM, thanks.

Removing noise and having clean power is not a problem. How it's done can create as many problems as it fixes, that's overly common.
I'm not twisting anything nor do I have it out for you or anyone else here Folsom, I'm simply debating what you said and disagree with your assumption that negative effect on the sound is caused by poor design of that particular isolation transformer, that's not having it out for you.

Non-understandings of a lot of factors involved with such devices, including passive filters, cause an awful lot of issues. They give other similar but correctly designed things a bad name.
david
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,088
225
263
BFlowers,

Congrats!! I did not do isolated transformer in our home either. Just dedicated lines and backup power. Any more listening notes on 2011/3060 vs your older gen Boulder (which I have heard before for a few auditions with big Wilsons.)
 

gilles13

Well-Known Member
Dec 17, 2015
105
18
50
south of France
Each of my components is connected to an isolation transformer with RC . It result in a very big improvment in sound and no limitation in power ,and I have 2 classe bridged amps.
 
Jan 23, 2013
57
2
8
Isolation transformers don't produce poor sound their function is to isolate a component from the AC source and suppress electrical noise that's all, its effect of this isolated and cleaned electricity on the sound which is the problem.

david
Providing that the isolation transformer have sufficient capacity, preventing it from going into saturation.
 
May 30, 2010
16,226
1,203
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Portugal
BFlowers,

Congrats!! I did not do isolated transformer in our home either. Just dedicated lines and backup power. (...)
LLoyd,

Mains secondary distribution in the US has different characteristics than in Europe -e.g., as they have lower voltage, step down transformers are typically placed closer to to users.

Unless we consider all the functions of the mains (supplying energy and noise, but also operating as an electrical noise sink and/or distributor for your own equipment and appliances) we can not understand why the advice on this subject can not be generalized. It will always depend on location and equipment. People are only reporting their own experience - we can learn from them it as it opens our mind for possible problems and solutions, but there is no universal recipe.

Electrical engineers consider electric power quality mainly in terms of frequency and voltage stability, DC residual, mains voltage flicker, harmonic distortion and transients. You can have a power line that fulfills the specifications in all these factors and still is not perfect in terms of audiophile requirements!
 
Jul 9, 2011
817
1
16
Chicago, IL
LLoyd,

Mains secondary distribution in the US has different characteristics than in Europe -e.g., as they have lower voltage, step down transformers are typically placed closer to to users.

Unless we consider all the functions of the mains (supplying energy and noise, but also operating as an electrical noise sink and/or distributor for your own equipment and appliances) we can not understand why the advice on this subject can not be generalized. It will always depend on location and equipment. People are only reporting their own experience - we can learn from them it as it opens our mind for possible problems and solutions, but there is no universal recipe.

Electrical engineers consider electric power quality mainly in terms of frequency and voltage stability, DC residual, mains voltage flicker, harmonic distortion and transients. You can have a power line that fulfills the specifications in all these factors and still is not perfect in terms of audiophile requirements!
As always, well thought out and well said.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
7,406
1,681
440
Beverly Hills, CA
Each of my components is connected to an isolation transformer with RC . It result in a very big improvment in sound and no limitation in power ,and I have 2 classe bridged amps.
What is the total length of power cable (in-wall wire plus power cord) between the isolation transformer and your amplifiers?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,088
225
263
LLoyd,

Mains secondary distribution in the US has different characteristics than in Europe -e.g., as they have lower voltage, step down transformers are typically placed closer to to users.

Unless we consider all the functions of the mains (supplying energy and noise, but also operating as an electrical noise sink and/or distributor for your own equipment and appliances) we can not understand why the advice on this subject can not be generalized. It will always depend on location and equipment. People are only reporting their own experience - we can learn from them it as it opens our mind for possible problems and solutions, but there is no universal recipe.

Electrical engineers consider electric power quality mainly in terms of frequency and voltage stability, DC residual, mains voltage flicker, harmonic distortion and transients. You can have a power line that fulfills the specifications in all these factors and still is not perfect in terms of audiophile requirements!
Thanks, Micro...always a great source of information. In our case, it was more a matter of cost than anything else. If anyone has ever done refurbishments, it is often a matter of prioritizing the wish list, and in the end, consideration of Equitech, etc fell away. Fortunately, we did get a dedicated set of lines, Furutech outlets which (if nothing else) at least hold the cables properly given their weight, and underfloor conduits to hide all the cables, as well as the in-ceiling movie screen/front view projector. The back up power supply works well too. We are blessed to have some toys...;)
 
May 30, 2010
16,226
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Portugal
Each individual auto transformer is set beside the component.
Gilles13,

Probably it is just a translation matter, but an autotransformer is not an isolation transformer and does not isolate the equipment. They are usually used to step the mains voltage.
 
Apr 24, 2010
90
2
8
Westlake Texas
I certainly did not intend for this to become a discussion on isolation transformers. I have detailed info on what was used as you might imagine. For the sake of brevity, we used a 15KVa Ultra-K isolation transformer (a commercial, not audio unit) The neighborhood transformer is only 30 ft from the isolation transformer, and serves only 2 houses. This is what allowed my to easily bypass the unit by running a second line from the neighborhood transformer to my subpanel. The isolation transformer is housed in it's own closet, which is directly beneath my audio room. The run from that transformer to my custom subpanel (which is in another "closet" inside the listening room itself) is maybe 15 ft. The outlets are right off the subpanel with the longest run being 10 Ft. All of the wire in the walls is custom wound, etc, etc, etc. The whole project was done very intentionally, and cost a handsome sum of money. All the more reason I tried to stick with it as long as I did. Despite the above, I imagine someone with more expertise than I (which would not be difficult) could find some fault with what the power consultant chose to do. What I found to be objectionable about the sound was that the bass was loose and poorly controlled, treble was mushy, and the overall presentation lacked clarity. Fortunately, I was very familiar with how these components were supposed to sound, or else I would still be chasing gremlins.
 
Jan 23, 2011
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Amsterdam holland
Nice review BF flowers , afaik boulder puts a lot of effort into their transformers making them noise free /potted , i dont use anything in between the amp and wall outlet either .
All those power condintioners ive heard at dealers make it more dull and lifeless imo .
From all the pre s tested i dont see a tube pre in between ( or is the ypsilon ?) , not into that ??
Fantastic buildquality by the way boulder especially the 3060 , owned the 1060 myself.
 

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