Boulder 2110 Series

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,082
220
263
#81
I would love to hear the 3060... I have the 2060...

Or should I stay away.... kinda scared.

What's the rest of your system? Seems like we are sorta neighbors.
How long have you owned the 2060 and what else have you compared it to, or what else did you consider? I very nearly bought the 2060 and today would consider it as the only solid state amp i would go for besides my current Gryphon. It is a tremendous amp.
 
Nov 30, 2015
60
0
6
#82
How long have you owned the 2060 and what else have you compared it to, or what else did you consider? I very nearly bought the 2060 and today would consider it as the only solid state amp i would go for besides my current Gryphon. It is a tremendous amp.
I had in my room 3 amps that I lived with for months at the same time which afforded me the ability to compare and contrast... I still own 2 of the 3.

Cary 211fe
Classe m600
Boulder 2060
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,082
220
263
#83
I had in my room 3 amps that I lived with for months at the same time which afforded me the ability to compare and contrast... I still own 2 of the 3.

Cary 211fe
Classe m600
Boulder 2060
veerrry interesting...those are all special in their own way... i am going to take a wild guess:

- Cary has a special kind of magic on certain tracks in the mids, possibly a unique sense of air in the treble though perhaps not quite as extended as Boulder
- Classe has a solid all around performer style...not quite as all-out effortless, unperturb-able as the Boulder, nor as detailed/clean across the spectrum...but fantastic value for money

...total guess...look forward to any 'real comments' you can make!
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2011
87
34
93
San Diego
#84
I would love to hear the 3060... I have the 2060...

Or should I stay away.... kinda scared.

What's the rest of your system? Seems like we are sorta neighbors.
You should definitely hear the 3060, although your fear is understandable and completely justified.
 
Apr 3, 2010
15,814
3
0
Seattle, WA
#86
Can anyone here inform me of the purpose behind the microprocessor in Boulder amps?
The algorithm they use for dynamic bias adjustment is much simpler to implement in software on a micro than in hardwired logic. In the same vein, protection circuits are routinely implemented using a micro. That would be my guess :). I can ask them specifically at AXPONA as their engineers are always very forthcoming at shows with me.
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
4,377
574
220
Eastern WA
#87
The algorithm they use for dynamic bias adjustment is much simpler to implement in software on a micro than in hardwired logic. In the same vein, protection circuits are routinely implemented using a micro. That would be my guess :). I can ask them specifically at AXPONA as their engineers are always very forthcoming at shows with me.
They advertise it like it's a beneficial thing. But if it's just mute/stdby then that's not exactly interesting, just easy to do for an amp builder. The problem I see with microcontrollers is they can often be much slower. They have uses, but they aren't exactly at the speed of music you might say; which means for startup or less than on-the-fly control makes some sort of sense.
 
Feb 25, 2016
462
2
18
Zhejiang
#88
Microcontrollers slow? Nah, they've not been slow for decades. I started my career programming 8748s, even those weren't slow but considerably slower than today's devices. Nowadays a cheap uC (say LPC1114) can do a fair bit of DSP.

Boulder isn't the only one using a uC in an amp, take a look at Schiit for example, they talk a bit about what the uC does on the page on Ragnarok : http://schiit.com/products/ragnarok

Notice DC offset control is another aspect suited to being done by a uC, rather than having a servo.
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2011
87
34
93
San Diego
#91
I am sure happy I kept my Boulder 2060. I am now using it to power a Wilson Thor's Hammer. I'm thinking it is the ultimate subwoofer.

The 3060 is powering the new Wilson XLFs. I sent my Mezzo back to Wilson to upgrade the tweeter/crossover to match the XLFs and the other channel of the 2060 will power the Mezzo.
 
Nov 30, 2015
60
0
6
#92
veerrry interesting...those are all special in their own way... i am going to take a wild guess:

- Cary has a special kind of magic on certain tracks in the mids, possibly a unique sense of air in the treble though perhaps not quite as extended as Boulder
- Classe has a solid all around performer style...not quite as all-out effortless, unperturb-able as the Boulder, nor as detailed/clean across the spectrum...but fantastic value for money

...total guess...look forward to any 'real comments' you can make!
It's scary how close you are to my actual experience.

Cary - less bass, significantly. Midrange is great, has a certain air to the music.

Classe - great for the money, bass is tight, highs are sweet. Just a little unrefined in comparison to the Boulder 2060. Or maybe... a lot unrefined. ahhaha
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,082
220
263
#93
veerrry interesting...those are all special in their own way... i am going to take a wild guess:

- Cary has a special kind of magic on certain tracks in the mids, possibly a unique sense of air in the treble though perhaps not quite as extended as Boulder
- Classe has a solid all around performer style...not quite as all-out effortless, unperturb-able as the Boulder, nor as detailed/clean across the spectrum...but fantastic value for money

...total guess...look forward to any 'real comments' you can make!
It's scary how close you are to my actual experience.

Cary - less bass, significantly. Midrange is great, has a certain air to the music.

Classe - great for the money, bass is tight, highs are sweet. Just a little unrefined in comparison to the Boulder 2060. Or maybe... a lot unrefined. ahhaha
I guess...I guessed well! ;) I recall you own the 2060...great, great amp imho. I could easily have gone that way, but the timing to buy was just not right when i heard it. It did reaffirm my recollection of liking Class A SS amps based on the original Forte 4 (a great 50 watt Class A amp), and the older Krell FPB650.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,082
220
263
#94
I am sure happy I kept my Boulder 2060. I am now using it to power a Wilson Thor's Hammer. I'm thinking it is the ultimate subwoofer.

The 3060 is powering the new Wilson XLFs. I sent my Mezzo back to Wilson to upgrade the tweeter/crossover to match the XLFs and the other channel of the 2060 will power the Mezzo.
That is just insanely cool! I bet it is ultimate subwoofer territory. I am driving the X1s with the Gryphon Colosseum and using a, by comparison humble, Velodyne DD18+, and it is just awesome when you play Mission Impossible III, and the gunshots ring out as the agent is dropping from the rooftop in the opening scene.

And yet on Hans Zimmer Soundtracks, deep house bass, or even Anne Bisson, you just incredibly quiet, controlled bass thwacks even at soft volumes. would love to hear what a Thor does in this room.

Enjoy!!! What, if i may ask, is the rest of your system?
 
Nov 30, 2015
60
0
6
#95
I guess...I guessed well! ;) I recall you own the 2060...great, great amp imho. I could easily have gone that way, but the timing to buy was just not right when i heard it. It did reaffirm my recollection of liking Class A SS amps based on the original Forte 4 (a great 50 watt Class A amp), and the older Krell FPB650.
Lloyd

I enjoy my 2060 very much.

It has completely quenched my desire for an amp upgrade.

I also have the Emm dac2x and it also has quenched my digital upgrade.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
11,082
220
263
#96
Lloyd

I enjoy my 2060 very much.

It has completely quenched my desire for an amp upgrade.

I also have the Emm dac2x and it also has quenched my digital upgrade.
Wow...both great pieces...i was just reading about the latest Emm digital. I will say, it is incredibly impressive how many professional recording studios, (and heads of those studios) use Ed Meitner's equipment.
 
Apr 24, 2010
90
2
8
Westlake Texas
#97
Sorry it's been so long to post. Life has been extremely busy. In addition, I was not getting the best from my new dedicated room until recently. In short, I hired a professional power consultant and we spec'ed a first rate, 15KVa isolation transformer for the room. No matter what I did, i couldn't get the system to sound the way I knew it should. I finally bit the bullet, and had my electrician bypass the transformer and return to "street power". Now my system sounds as expected. Nearly a year of wasted time! Although I approached the idea of using an isolation transformer with great skepticism, the ultimate plan made sense to me and I went for it. Clearly Boulder equipment, in my application, sounds better without one. As y'all may remember, I had the 2010/2060 combo, and before moving into the new room, added the 2110 preamp. I was familiar, and quite pleased with, the improvement that the new pre-amp brought. I added the 3060 after I moved into the new room. Those (few) who have heard the 3060 understand that it has the Boulder house sound, but taken to a higher level. Ridiculous levels of detail, iron fisted control of the bass, incredible air and mid-range warmth, without any harshness. I've posted elsewhere all of the amp/pre-amp combos that I demoed prior to selecting the 2110/3060 combo. They included top of the line Soulution, Dartzeel, Lamm, D'agostino, ypsilon, Spectral to name a few (most in my home). Despite the fact that some of these are considered THE SOTA, I believe the 2110/3060 combo is superior.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
7,327
1,628
440
Beverly Hills, CA
#98
As someone who recently planned to install an isolation transformer, and then decided not to proceed with it, your experience is very interesting to me.

Can you please describe the differences in sound between using the isolation transformer and bypassing the isolation transformer?

What was the length of the speaker cable between the amplifier and the isolation transformer?
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
4,377
574
220
Eastern WA
#99
There may be problems from parts used with the isolation transformer. A transformer is just wires around a core, but isolation devices often come with a host of things inside the enclosure that houses the transformer. These different items may cause a lot of unintended problems. The voltage and overall current delivery might come within specifications, but that doesn't mean saturation during peaks won't occur, or that voltage and current are in phase.

Non-understandings of a lot of factors involved with such devices, including passive filters, cause an awful lot of issues. They give other similar but correctly designed things a bad name. I've been looking at the possibility of making special filter that can handle Boulder's biggest offerings, without causing any bad affects like seen here. It would not be an isolation transformer, and would be highly treated to prevent saturation problems.

If I had to take a guess the isolation transformer made the high frequencies sound a little muted, and things lost their general sparkle, you might say. I'd be interested to know what isolation transformer was used so I can research what is used in it that can cause the problems found here.

Anyway, for example, the Boulder itself uses 4x transformers, so transformers themselves are certainly not an evil, but rather something that can be implemented well or poorly.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,315
851
360
Utah
There may be problems from parts used with the isolation transformer. A transformer is just wires around a core, but isolation devices often come with a host of things inside the enclosure that houses the transformer. These different items may cause a lot of unintended problems. The voltage and overall current delivery might come within specifications, but that doesn't mean saturation during peaks won't occur, or that voltage and current are in phase.

Non-understandings of a lot of factors involved with such devices, including passive filters, cause an awful lot of issues. They give other similar but correctly designed things a bad name. I've been looking at the possibility of making special filter that can handle Boulder's biggest offerings, without causing any bad affects like seen here. It would not be an isolation transformer, and would be highly treated to prevent saturation problems.

If I had to take a guess the isolation transformer made the high frequencies sound a little muted, and things lost their general sparkle, you might say. I'd be interested to know what isolation transformer was used so I can research what is used in it that can cause the problems found here.

Anyway, for example, the Boulder itself uses 4x transformers, so transformers themselves are certainly not an evil, but rather something that can be implemented well or poorly.
IME isolation transformers including balanced ones when used in line with a system have a very negative effect on the sound, I've had this conversation with Ron and some other members here before and Boulder isn't the only electronics affected by it, I hear the same coloration with other brands including my own system.

david
 

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