Boulder amp from hell...
- Thread starter amirm
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Isnt the Wavac 833 something like 6 gigantic boxes for 150 watts of Class A tubed power? 4 power supply boxes plus the 2 main amp boxes?
I bought a Boulder 3060 over a year ago and cabled it to Wilson Alexandria XLFs. To my ears, it is plainly superior to all other amps I have heard and that should be clear to anyone else who listens to this system. That has not proved to be the case. I have been told by several people that it is very good but not as good as Audio Research 750 SEs on the same speakers or other amps, tube and SS, on other speakers. I heard the same systems and to me that is nonsense.
There is less music with those amps and this I am told is more "musical," probably what Michael Fremer calls "music's liquidity and natural flow" in his review of Boulder's 2150s. Fremer opines that the sustains of notes between attacks and decays are not fully expressed with the 2150s. I have listened for that with the 3060 and I cannot detect it. IMO the Isomike SACD recording of pianist Fan Ya Lin's album Emerging is a pretty good test for an amplifier that most amps fail. Ms. Lin played that music live at the RMAF some years ago but virtually none of the systems in the rooms could reproduce that sound. The 3060 passes this test.
My theory is that the pianist's absolute control of the Steinway D -- staccato, legato, pedal, tempo, forte, pianissimo etc. -- is very difficult for most amps to reproduce by similarly controlling the speaker drivers. And when Fremer complains that the Boulder amps don't fully express the sustain compared to his dartZeels, he is really hearing sustain with the dartZeels that isn't actually on the recording, the dartZeels not being able to adequately control the drivers and keep up with the speed of the performance. The truth is that the Boulder 3060 (and the 2150s) has the ability to precisely start and stop the dirvers of the speakers so as to match the speed of the performance and play only the "sustain" that is on the recording.
There is less music with those amps and this I am told is more "musical," probably what Michael Fremer calls "music's liquidity and natural flow" in his review of Boulder's 2150s. Fremer opines that the sustains of notes between attacks and decays are not fully expressed with the 2150s. I have listened for that with the 3060 and I cannot detect it. IMO the Isomike SACD recording of pianist Fan Ya Lin's album Emerging is a pretty good test for an amplifier that most amps fail. Ms. Lin played that music live at the RMAF some years ago but virtually none of the systems in the rooms could reproduce that sound. The 3060 passes this test.
My theory is that the pianist's absolute control of the Steinway D -- staccato, legato, pedal, tempo, forte, pianissimo etc. -- is very difficult for most amps to reproduce by similarly controlling the speaker drivers. And when Fremer complains that the Boulder amps don't fully express the sustain compared to his dartZeels, he is really hearing sustain with the dartZeels that isn't actually on the recording, the dartZeels not being able to adequately control the drivers and keep up with the speed of the performance. The truth is that the Boulder 3060 (and the 2150s) has the ability to precisely start and stop the dirvers of the speakers so as to match the speed of the performance and play only the "sustain" that is on the recording.
Nice one love boulder, owned a 1060 myself , best buildquality in the bizz (dartzeel is nice too, I know 
)
Curious, of all the tube amps you tried did you try convergent pre /power .
Those are tube amps with enormous reserves / total control, but with that sweet breath of tube life .
Most tube amps ive heard render a bit soft in the bass freq and overall control , not convergent the more power you ask of them the more they give , I got the same limitless powerfeeling as I got with the boulder
greetings HJ
) Curious, of all the tube amps you tried did you try convergent pre /power .
Those are tube amps with enormous reserves / total control, but with that sweet breath of tube life .
Most tube amps ive heard render a bit soft in the bass freq and overall control , not convergent the more power you ask of them the more they give , I got the same limitless powerfeeling as I got with the boulder
greetings HJ
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there is more than one approach to truly controlling drivers and systems having 'ultra' ease and authority. one such approach is high efficiency horns and modest powered tube amps.
or relatively powerful solid state amps with very efficient and easy to drive speakers with separate solid state amps for the bottom end.
or your big Boulder's with pretty much any speaker system.
maybe the Boulders might have the most of that ease and authority part. but unless you actually listen to each approach it's hard to assume that any of those approaches is all around the best. too many variables to predict. and matters of taste and preference.
the big Boulder likely is king of controlling a single full range dynamic cone speaker.
I have heard the [much] older 2060 Stereo Boulder with Alexandria 2s many years ago. While I preferred my Colosseum to it...I can say the Boulder 2060 is/was a phenomenally good amp. And I have virtually NO doubt that the 3000 and 2100 series have far, far surpassed it. 3000 series probably eclipsed it. Congrats...a huge (literally) amp that no doubt can slay many/most great amps out there (as it should given its 6-figure price for the stereo). Would love to hear it someday. Enjoy.
Hi Chuck,
Why are you posting if you’re so certain of the amp? The XLF is a relatively easy load and there are many amplifiers that can drive them with aplomb including several low powered SETs. Ultimately you’re the one who has to be satisfied and if your definition of good sound is starting & stopping of drivers so be it but accept that some will care about the musical qualities of an amplifier, maybe that’s why it’s not clear to them
! david
Hi Chuck,
Why are you posting if you’re so certain of the amp? The XLF is a relatively easy load and there are many amplifiers that can drive them with aplomb including several low powered SETs. Ultimately you’re the one who has to be satisfied and if your definition of good sound is starting & stopping of drivers so be it but accept that some will care about the musical qualities of an amplifier, maybe that’s why it’s not clear to them
david
David,
Although the XLF is an easy load and you can drive them with many types of amplifiers, once you experience them with some high power amplifiers such as the recent versions of Constellation Audio you see that there are some aspects of musicality that are better served by top quality solid state. IMHO considering that SS has only start/stop capabilities is myopic.
I have no experience of Boulder, but extrapolating with what is happening with brands such as D'Agostino or Constellation Audio, I can imagine that their new top equipment sounds much better than older versions. Unfortunately they are also rising the prices significantly.
Please Francisco not Constellation, puke!
I know what you’re talking about but my comment above wasn’t about SS vs tube etc. I was getting a different point across, was I too subtle
?david
Please Francisco not Constellation, puke!
I know what you’re talking about but my comment above wasn’t about SS vs tube etc. I was getting a different point across, was I too subtle
david
Why not Constellation? For the same reason not SME30 or not digital?
IMHO when commenting someone post we must see his system and try to understand his view, adding our our opinion. Not just repeat our fundamental beliefs and preferences.
Never mentioned the 30 in any of my posts nor ever said no digital anywhere. This is pretty much an opinion forum and we have different styles of communicating that opinion, if you care to read the OP & my reply carefully you’ll see I was addressing his view directly as you suggest and nothing else.Why not Constellation? For the same reason not SME30 or not digital?
IMHO when commenting someone post we must see his system and try to understand his view, adding our our opinion. Not just repeat our fundamental beliefs and preferences.
david
Where was any of that mentioned in the post or even relevant? His concern was other people’s opinion vs his priorities, and he’s content with his sound, that’s all and that’s exactly what was addressed. My comment was that ultimately he’s the one who has to be satisfied and accept that others care for different things than him, what else is there to say?
The rest of this thread is between us!
david
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I think it is relevant, and IMHO it is the real reason why some people participate in forums. I do not care a lot about how strong, well sated, emotional or radical opinions are - but I care a lot for the reasons behind the preferences of people and the way they listen to their systems. In summary - I love the "why"'s.
And, in spite of my own limitations, I care particularly about opinions of people who either share my preferences, equipment choice, music taste or have an established and solid reputation in the audio community, even if we disagree - it is why we are often exchanging contrary views!
I do agree that when people use similar equipment then pick an accompanying piece of equipment i do not use but am interested in...i at least read with interest. In Marcus' case (and in yours), I always read with interest observations about the big Wilsons (any of them), and the equipment that goes with them. In particular Gryphon, Boulder, Zanden, Lamm, CJ...and perhaps also Constellation, ARC, D'Agostino and any massively spec'd Class A amps.
That goes for DDK as well who has by all accounts an insanely finetuned all-out system....and who has quite a lot of experience with the big Wilsons. I have learned quite a lot in just the few comments/guidance he has kindly provided to me in the past.
Boulder amps are one of those oddities in that they just don't get much respect in some audiophile circles. However, it should be noted that according to Boulder, all of their behemoth amps are optimally designed to work with 220V and NOT 110V as most of you have commonly heard them. Believe me, the difference is astonishing. I heard this effect from an AC line voltage change on Brian Flowers' Alexandria based system back in DFW a few years ago (with the 2060) and was astounded at the difference. The Boulders are also unique in that they are the only American made SOA SS amp with 6 figure stratospheric prices that are normally reserved for Swiss and Danish amps (CH Precision, Dart, FM Acoustics, Soulution, Goldmund, Gryphon). (Makes D'Agostinos and Spectral look like bargain basement pricing at ~30-40 cents on the dollar compared to the EU counterparts). And yet, Boulder is still the Rodney Dangerfield of amps in that they really don't get any genuine respect among the cognescenti. Hmmm.
Yes, i think I have read 'strident' as description before...perhaps 110V-120V strangles a bit? Cooler perhaps but real tonal depth/power (to me), not cool/thin. I heard them with 240V FWIW.
If that's true then the only reason for it to sound better in 220v is because they don't know how to build decent transformer! Their name is very descriptive of character of their sound, that's why many don't care for them!
david
Marty your point stands...but would add Constellations Hercules II in the 100k....US made club....
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