Cable Modems

[Xymox]

I am buying some IAP-325-US and I will look those over. Those are 4x4.. https://www.securewirelessworks.com/datasheets/Access-Points/DS_AP320Series.pdf

I need to find a access point to recommend for the Switch X. Right now everyone is using access points they have or Bill and I suggested the Eero. These all have produced great results, but, I am now thinking a Aruba is the best path. These are a issue tho as a Aruba is designed to ceiling mount, so how to get it to sit on a shelf has to be worked out. Also a linear needs to be worked out. The ethernet and power both poke straight out the back of the Aruba. So. I gotta play with this to make it shelf ready. I am thinking of supplying them ready to go with the right config and a linear. They are cheap from ebay and I think I can find a cheap linear, no mods needed, just config and some way to set them on a shelf.. So I am hoping to keep cost way down.

I have a really long term client I am working to supply a full system with a access point , SFP, and Switch X all in one box ready to go and ready to hook to a Taiko via Direct Attach Cable.

 

[vert]

I made a quick vid.. I show a IAP-225-US powered by a 12V linear. Works great.. Also I give a preview of what makes a Aruba awesome. FPS140 mil specs plus other specs that make it RF hardened.. WHo knew ? So I have now measured and these Arubas dont have any measurable RF noise that they emit. Its JUST 2.4/5 Ghz wifi. Unlike the Ubiquiti, Eero and TPLink which all have TONS of RF noise they emit...

The Aruba's have full mil-spec complaince which also include RF emission specs.. https://www.arubanetworks.com/assets/ds/DS_FEDCERT.pdf

I got the Aruba AP-11 working with my LPS.

I‘ve tried several other 2.4/5Ghz access points and they all sounded terrible.

The low end 2.4 GHz N wireless (no 5Ghz) TP link access point sounded good, but it wasn’t reliable under heavy load.

So it made me wonder. Is it 5Ghz that is degrading the sound?

I setup a TP Link TL-WA1201 with 5Ghz off and transmit power medium, and it sounds better than the Aruba.

 

[Xymox]

I got the Aruba AP-11 working with my LPS.

I‘ve tried several other 2.4/5Ghz access points and they all sounded terrible.

The low end 2.4 GHz N wireless (no 5Ghz) TP link access point sounded good, but it wasn’t reliable under heavy load.

So it made me wonder. Is it 5Ghz that is degrading the sound?

I setup a TP Link TL-WA1201 with 5Ghz off and transmit power medium, and it sounds better than the Aruba.

AWESOME !!.. Interesting... I was guessing that 5 ghz being way higher then any audio gear stuff would be better, but,, lookie what you found.

Did you pop the Aruba into just 2.4 and try it ?

The AP-11 does not have the mil-spec shielding that the IAP-xxx-US do. So I would assume that having far less stray RF output because of the shielding and running on low power 2.4 would be good.

Good find.

 

[vert]

AWESOME !!.. Interesting... I was guessing that 5 ghz being way higher then any audio gear stuff would be better, but,, lookie what you found.

Did you pop the Aruba into just 2.4 and try it ?

I did try the Aruba with only 2.4 enabled, and I preferred the TP link with only 2.4 enabled.

I also tried only 5Ghz enabled (and 2.4 off) on the TP Link, but it sounded terrible.

 

[matthias]

I setup a TP Link TL-WA1201 with 5Ghz off and transmit power medium, and it sounds better than the Aruba.

Does it sound better than the TL-WA901N as well?
Thx

Matt

 

[vert]

Does it sound better than the TL-WA901N as well?
Thx

Matt

The biggest culprit is the 5GHz radio. When it's enabled, streaming sounds terrible.

Not sure if it’s better than the lower model TL-WA901N, but so far it’s sounding good.

TL-WA901N just couldn’t handle the demands of my household use.

 

[vert]

@Xymox Can the 5Ghz radio on the Aruba IAP-225 actually be disabled?

I read on a website that the radios on the older Aruba models cannot be completely disabled (as in powered off). They can only be taken out of client service.

 

[Basillus7]

@Xymox Can a IAP-325-US be used in Europe.

 

[Basillus7]

@Xymox Can a IAP-325-US be used in Europe.

OK. Now I can answer this myself ;0)
It can, because it is possible to convert it to a RW(rest of the world) version.
It is also possible to convert a AP-325 to a IAP-325,
but there are 2 version of 325:

• One running with physical controller has only 256mb ram DOM2016
• Others IAP or later AP version has full 512mb ram DOM2017->

The 256mb ram version does not have enough ram to run os8, so better off with os6 or maximum can run os8.3.

 

[Xymox]

OK. Now I can answer this myself ;0)
It can, because it is possible to convert it to a RW(rest of the world) version.
It is also possible to convert a AP-325 to a IAP-325,
but there are 2 version of 325:

• One running with physical controller has only 256mb ram DOM2016
• Others IAP or later AP version has full 512mb ram DOM2017->

The 256mb ram version does not have enough ram to run os8, so better off with os6 or maximum can run os8.3.

Yes you would use the -RW..

I do not know how to convert a AP-325 to a IAP-325.

I have spent a week now playing with a lot of things. Firmware 8.9.0.3 is very stable and has not enabled some stuff that makes it less desirable for our use..

More in my next post.

 

[Xymox]

WOWEE.. I spent a week playing with all manner of access points in lots of configs. Rukus, TP Link, Aruba, Eero, Ubiquiti, Netgear, Cisco... I took them all apart. Multiple models too.

Without doubt the FULL STRENGHT Arubas are the best built devcies. Like metal tanks. Seriously overengineered. Its all that military grade linage. PLUS they can be fed with a 12V linear directly. In fact they can be fed from my special linear I use for the Switch X and ATVX even tho its 14.1V.

So I settled into Aruba.. Then it was ordering up models.. This was complex and got immd into the RF debacle. Wifi 6E vs 6 vs 5, 2.4Ghz vs 5Ghz vs 6Ghz.

This landed me into exploring what was best for audio use.. LOTS of use of a spectrum analyzer.. I found some interesting things..

It turns out that its the bandwidth that causes issues with audio gear. Wifi channels come in widths. The wider, the more spectrum used, the faster speeds. BUT the wider channel width radiates more energy as a whole. Default on all the 5Ghz access points I tested was ultra wide channels for THE fastest speeds. Giant 80Mhz wide channels, or even 160 Mhz wide channels. These super wide band channels induced more power into nearby objects and wire. So it quickly became clear a NARROW channel was where its at. Aruba makes this easy. I dropped down to a 20Mhz wide channel. Also 5Ghz is far less likely to induce signals into other gear at these narrow widths.

The other advantage to using a narrow channel width is immunity to interference. The stream ends up more solid with less retransmissions. It has less measurable jitter.

So then I played with power.. I can do nearly 1db adjustments on Aruba. Its best to keep power lower of course, but not too low. So I can set a power for reasonable range and speeds.

The narrow channel width means it can only go to 96 Mbps. But for simple control of a UPnP or roon device this is more then enough. Its also a VERY solid 96..

So I can see with a stock device, 5 ghz would just spray a huge wide RF mess. So I see why 5Ghz reported as worse. BUT with a narrow channel, 5Ghz @ 20Mhz @ 18db produces a great result.

The IAP-325-US is what I settled on. I tested everything from a 515 to a 225. The 325 was the most responsive and had zero detectable RF other then its output on 5Ghz.

The narrow channel width and careful power control can also be done on 2.4ghz, but, more energy ends up in the devices around it.

It uses less then 1A at 12V. Avg is 390mA RMS for the setup I describe above. The DC power jack is nicely filtered for RF as well.

So I have settled on a IAP-325-US running 8.9.0.3 firmware doing a 20Mhz wide 5ghz channel at 18db. I am feeding this with one of my linears with 14.15V. I have tested this in a few systems and it works great..

I am going to add feet and some 90 degree connections of ethernet and power. So it will sit nicely on a shelf. I am going to hook this to the hard ethernet port on my Switch X to provide wifi to the clean networking side.

I will also be exploring how to fully strip a iPad of EVERYTHING unneeded for UPnP or roon, or the Taiko browser. I want the iPad to also be seriously clean and spit out as few unrelated packets as possible.

 

[Xymox]

@Xymox Can the 5Ghz radio on the Aruba IAP-225 actually be disabled?

I read on a website that the radios on the older Aruba models cannot be completely disabled (as in powered off). They can only be taken out of client service.

Oh yea. They are turned off if nothing uses them. True of 2.4 Ghz too.. I can see this easy on my spectrum analyzer. You just set "Band " on the "Networks configuration" to either 2.4 or 5. As long as there are no "networks" that have it on, then it goes off.

Maybe what you describe is true of some older model then i know about. But on the IAP-325 I have been playing with, that config kills off radios. The radio light on the unit even flashes to tell you its off. I used the "none" selection to turn off all bands and did spectrum analysis on just the unit.

 

[msimanyi]

The IAP-325-US is what I settled on. I tested everything from a 515 to a 225. The 325 was the most responsive and had zero detectable RF other then its output on 5Ghz.

Awesome bit of work there Chris!

I know you like the 325, but for those of us reluctant to buy older product that may or may not receive security updates, can you tell me if the 515 would be a reasonable alternative, other than the price?

Basically, does the 325 emit almost no RF other than the actual narrow signal and the 515 is close, or in comparison is the 515 spraying RF pollution around like a loose fire hose at full pressure?

 

[Basillus7]

@Xymox: I do not know how to convert a AP-325 to a IAP-325.

See here:

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/aruba-ap-to-iap.29426/post-280609

 

[Xymox]

Awesome bit of work there Chris!

I know you like the 325, but for those of us reluctant to buy older product that may or may not receive security updates, can you tell me if the 515 would be a reasonable alternative, other than the price?

Basically, does the 325 emit almost no RF other than the actual narrow signal and the 515 is close, or in comparison is the 515 spraying RF pollution around like a loose fire hose at full pressure?

All the 3 digit model numbers I have cracked open so far are built like tanks and encased in thick metal shielding. To make specs for thier use in secure environments like FBI/NSA/Mil it MUST have the same shielding.

Sure. A 515 is close. The disadvantage to it is a new RF radio chip set. IMHO.. Newer is not always better. Bringing a newer device down to a dumbed down 20Mhz wide channel is possible. I dont know of ANY advantage a 515 has over a 325 for our use tho. For real use in a cluster covering a whole home at high speeds, well,, the 515 is stunning.

Keep in mind a 515 is not current. There are newer models. But again, for our use, ZERO advantage. PLUS current models are more HP. Aruba was bought some years back and it seems to be affecting their products IMHO. I like the products made just after they were bought before HP got involved.

A caveat,, seriously,,, They do take experience to configure. YES they work out of the box. Mostly. They must be hard reset to be sure on first use. Also there are a bunch of settings to do. The fact reset default to low power and not great settings. So if you deploy these keep in mind they are NOT automagical. The do NOT come out of the box ready for best performance like a Eero, TP Link or ubiquity does. They are meant to be deployed by gov or high end commercial clients with 50 member IT teams with at least one person fully trained and certified by Aruba.

42 times more expensive for no additional performance for audio use tho is a lot. I have never seen a Aruba fail in my 15 years of using them. Thier lifetime warranty makes sense as they just don't fail. Used it great IMHO. Just gotta be careful to fact reset and firmware update.

Once I am finished playing with them I will get the 8.9.0.3 firmware and a backup/restore file on my server and I think this should make it fairly easy to replicate what i figure out.

 

[Xymox]

So I am testing the config I described. I am using it as my main wifi for a few laptops, phones, ipads.. Its interesting.. I am seeing longer range with the narrow channel even tho its 1/2 the power of the 80Mhz channel.

So far no hiccups. As NO ONE uses a 20Mhz 5Ghz channel this is novel enough it needs testing.

As far as sound goes, first it needs to be tested to be sure it works properly. It seems to. Sound wise, I always have others play and report back. I dont ever rely on my own observations. So I wont know about the sound part in real life systems for a bit yet.

What i do know is a narrow channel produces far less interference and far less coupled RF in devices around it. I know for sure the Arubas have nearly zero emitted RFI/EMI outside of the desired bands. I know they can be driven by a linear.

Things still to work out.. Should it have a shielded ethernet, or not. Shielding would ground the metal of the Aruba to the metal of the switch. This could be bad or good. Feet and 90 degree connectors.. AND of course,, does it produce better sound..

 

[Xymox]

Hmmmmm..... The more complex settings like DTIM and Beacon interval... Hmmmm.... Aruba fact is 100ms and 1.. Hmmmmm....

 

[Xymox]

As Taiko is planning, along with everyone using a wifi router,, going to a local wifi access point,,I decided to REALLY look into the RF depth of WiFi and teak it for use close to audio gear. I have been really successful in dialing in settings.

I will go over all the settings in also provide firmware and a config file for use with the IAP-325-US in the next few days. I have the 90 degree power connector and ethernet connector issue solved. I have big sorbothane feet on the way.. Once done I will do a vid showing all this along with the Switch X.

So this vid is showing how WiFi could affect audio gear if its close to it. So everybody with a router or AP closer then like 6 feet to audio gear take note. Now most gear wont care, but some will. So as we go into Taiko and others doing a clean switch/router and wifi we should all be aware that the wifi access point or router needs to have special settings and its stray RF is also important.. After a week of work, I think the IAP-325-xx with a linear with a special config is the best access point for audio use.

How Wifi works..

 

[Xymox]

@Xymox: I do not know how to convert a AP-325 to a IAP-325.

See here:

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/aruba-ap-to-iap.29426/post-280609

Wowee... Impressive work.. Great find.. While I do RS232 and TFTP on these all the time, this is beyond anything I knew could be done. Thats some serious hacking right there. But some serious skillz required, hahaha.. I dont think I have ever had to create a hash to do anything before.

Impressive.. And great find..

 

[Xymox]

I am shipping the first beta setup to a friend with a killer setup and a Taiko.