Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?
- Thread starter ScottK
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i wonder what the sweet spot is for number of routers stacked with linear power supplies? and either fibre or copper in between? is 2 ideal? anyone using 3? or more?
i have two exclusive to my server; the second of which is the Nordost which is 'in-room' near my Wadax server. both with copper in between. but i have laid fibre and could use it if it's better. not really thought about it since the Wadax install. pretty happy but sometimes ignorance is bliss.
thought about the Taiko switch, but not pursued it.
You probably mean a network switch, not a WiFi router. I could add one or several audiophile network switches to my ‘clean’ router and it should clean the signal further. Whether it will yield any audible benefit is another question.
...FWIW five years ago +/- during The Great Switch Wars, two Cisco 2960s was a notable improvement. Three was a "maybe-maybe" here. Four was a no difference. So, two it was. I still use my modded PFBuffalo upstream from the Taiko switch, contrary to guidance. Happy Hunting.
@abeidrov This one looks interesting because it seems to be plug-n-play and has no wifi therefore there doesn't seem to be a need to run in bridged mode. any thoughts? https://www.electrahealth.com/wifi_free_wired_only_router.html#:~:text=Don't want WiFi at,and free from microwave radiation. This particular market seems to be folks who don't want any wifi. I'll keep my ISP's wifi capability.
yes. i guess i was not paying close enough attention to current subject in the thread.
a year ago my son upgraded our WiFi for our house and my barn to a WiFi Mesh system. in my barn i have a unit in my listening room and another upstairs in my rec room. my server uses an all copper network from my broadband modem in my house to my server; but my i-pad remote uses the wifi Mesh system for control functions. even though no music data is moved by wifi, can it effect performance?
i don't know about these things.
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Thanks. Have been looking at switches. According to the website: "It is a universal router, plug-and-play ready to go." By their definition, a router without wifi capability. But it seems to operate like a switch. ???
My aim (as a non-IT specialist) was to find an easy way to separate the hifi traffic from the other traffic since I assumed there would be benefits (you know, save about $15k vs. the Taiko ecosystem, which is very innovative). I definitely don't know what I don't know.
I understand that a switch can help clean-up an existing network (the PhoenixNET looks very nice), but obviously that means all devices using the same router. I had read that all the network traffic degrades the performance of the connected streamer.
Should I be researching "wired routers" that also can be powered by a linear power supply?
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This is exactly what I thought when I heard the video of your room below, normally there is a bigger delta between digital and vinyl playback. What do you put that down to?
I don't but I chose anyway to duplicate my files on a drive as WAV as I found the playback to be a little more responsive when changing tracks, but YMMV depending on the solution used. Synchronization and conversion is handled automatically through a custom program.
My files are on a Windows PC running LMS, non optimized (just a basic Intel NUC). My network is not optimized in any "audiophile" way and my player is a WiiM Pro. The sound must suck!
But I do regularly check the sound against a very low noise dedicated file player (no network). It uses a STM32F722 microcontroller which runs at only 216Mhz, has a custom OS (no bloated linux/Windows/Mac OS) designed for the sole purpose of playing WAV files stored on a USB key. The sound is the same. So my hearing must suck
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No, it isn't your hearing. It is your mental/emotional state that allows you to listen to music rather than to a system.So my hearing must suck
Perhaps the greatest bang for the buck in audio is keeping active - mentally, emotionally and physically.
It would be interesting to track lipid and inflammation levels vs. enjoyment of music. But, too many variables.
No, it isn't your hearing. It is your mental/emotional state that allows you to listen to music rather than to a system.
Perhaps the greatest bang for the buck in audio is keeping active - mentally, emotionally and physically.
It would be interesting to track lipid and inflammation levels vs. enjoyment of music. But, too many variables.
Or you can go for mind-altering products - I say that jokingly, but this video is surprisingly candid:
It is fun reading the comments.
@abeidrov Thank you for bringing up this topic. I do wonder about the science, but only trying it would tell my ears if it works for me. This approach is cost effective; however, I am a bit skeptical. Creating a (wireless) bridge between two routers allows traffic in both directions and the second (bridged, therefore limited) router has fewer security controls (according to what I have read).
On the other hand, more complete options like the Switch X are much more expensive. The Switch X does indeed create a separate network (for audio) in which the attached devices do not communicate with the rest of the household devices. And it does this while it preserves the connection to the internet. In order to keep these two networks separate, the Switch X needs to have its own wifi (a separate device) that is completely dedicated to the Switch. And that wifi device needs a dedicated iPad. Still, this is much less expensive than the beautiful looking alternative from Taiko Audio. I'm mentioning this only for the folks who have started researching such alternatives.
It does make me hope that other companies will enter this area and produce a simpler, less expensive alternative. Perhaps there aren't enough people interested now, but streaming continues to grow and find new customers. But how many of them are audiophiles?
I assume this is more proof for the "I never stream" folks that digital is too complicated. But any medium has its rabbit holes and can consume time and effort. In fact, I assume that if you found your way to a burrow, you would not only find some fluffy lagomorphs, but also some audiophiles blinking uncomprehendingly in the darkness.
my favorite comment: "If Gene heard differences in cables stoned that might break the internet."
The title should have been Rip Van Winkle discovers weed. Wow, talk about a late bloomer. Takes me back, waaaay back.
He should have mentioned to keep these away from young children. Apparently, some parents aren't careful enough and youngsters end up in the emergency room with bewildering symptoms. Not good!
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... well, just a question - so if everyone agrees, that the main problem is a decreasing SQ of the original file and that this is caused by jitter as consequence of the signal path from the server to the endpoint, because the file has to travel through the internet/ethernet/router/whatever... why not just avoid all that by using a dedicated server with an integrated SSD which locally stores files and place this in the music room an have it feed the bridge/DAC directly, thus not using a computer and having the file travel all the way. Would that not solve the major problems addressed here?
Be it a Roon Nucleus (I myself enjoy the Roon software a lot) or a more expensive server? Yes, it will have to be connected to the internet to download potential new music or to upload ripped CDs and Roon (or what ever other software) also requires the connection, but the file itself would not travel through the house - no computer, no router, no ethernet, no "infiltration" of other potential endpoints/users...
... and - would this not be superior to a locally placed CDT - as the file itself is a perfect rip and no more spinning discs but at the same time it is connected directly just as a CDP/CDT would be?
Be it a Roon Nucleus (I myself enjoy the Roon software a lot) or a more expensive server? Yes, it will have to be connected to the internet to download potential new music or to upload ripped CDs and Roon (or what ever other software) also requires the connection, but the file itself would not travel through the house - no computer, no router, no ethernet, no "infiltration" of other potential endpoints/users...
... and - would this not be superior to a locally placed CDT - as the file itself is a perfect rip and no more spinning discs but at the same time it is connected directly just as a CDP/CDT would be?
this is where we were 15 years ago. crude music management software was resident inside computers managing files. the problem then was the computers, which were very noisy.....and the home network noise too that any computer is stuck with to function. and stand alone dacs were also relatively noisy. CD 'players' were relatively quiet, not nearly as much going on inside those.
these days much more robust music management software needs the web. so there you go.
i'm sure there are now stand alone choices that involve trade-offs. possibly less noise, but also not as refined in other ways. stuff cobbled together needs some personal techie knowledge to navigate. if you are up to it hop over to Computer Audio and ask some questions. after shuffling around a bit Roon might look pretty good again.
spent the last 2 hours exploring on Roon, found some real gems, and would not give that up for some theoretical lower noise benefit that would limit my access.
YMMV.
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... I enjoy Roon a lot and bought a lifetime membership. I use it for local files and streaming. But can`t you have both? An Antipodes as Roon core and music server in the music room that stores files locally and is a direct server to the DAC, so no problems with traveling files. At the same time it is connected to the internet and can be used to stream via Qobuz and Tidal (there - obviously - you still have the noise problem). I ALWAYS end up buying stuff I like, be it as vinyl, CD or digital file - but the bought digital stuff would then be stored locally and the jitter/noise problem from traveling files will only affect exploring new music via Qobuz/Tidal.
Or am am thinking wrong here?
Cheers,
Christoph
me too. a couple times.
any time you explore beyond transports and minimally connected dac circuits and you are fundamentally moving data files around in any way, shape, or form, the processing environment will bring all it's 'stuff' along. it's a function of accessing the files.....wherever they are. there are degrees of noise of course, but not zero.
and transports have some too, but less sources of bad stuff to have to overcome.
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one more point on this streaming thing; observe how far Taiko is going with power supplies for their new Olympus product.....exotic battery power and very involved design efforts all aimed at defeating noise. i just bought a 90 pound very expensive stand alone power supply for my expensive server. and it has taken things to a new level of musical enjoyment.
so streaming can deliver the music at a high level, and overcome the technical challenges, but the steps to get all the way there can be considerable. but it's doable. likely over time the trickle down will continue to raise the bar on what is reasonably accessible.
so streaming can deliver the music at a high level, and overcome the technical challenges, but the steps to get all the way there can be considerable. but it's doable. likely over time the trickle down will continue to raise the bar on what is reasonably accessible.
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