Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[PYP]

so streaming can deliver the music at a high level, and overcome the technical challenges, but the steps to get all the way there can be considerable. but it's doable. likely over time the trickle down will continue to raise the bar on what is reasonably accessible.

hope so. And hope that the complexity is also reduced.

 

[abeidrov]

... I enjoy Roon a lot and bought a lifetime membership. I use it for local files and streaming. But can`t you have both? An Antipodes as Roon core and music server in the music room that stores files locally and is a direct server to the DAC, so no problems with traveling files. At the same time it is connected to the internet and can be used to stream via Qobuz and Tidal (there - obviously - you still have the noise problem). I ALWAYS end up buying stuff I like, be it as vinyl, CD or digital file - but the bought digital stuff would then be stored locally and the jitter/noise problem from traveling files will only affect exploring new music via Qobuz/Tidal.

Or am am thinking wrong here?

Cheers,

Christoph

This is exactly like all music servers / streamers work now: you can buy downloads and store them locally on you server SSD or HDD and / or stream from internet. Not sure what you are asking about?

 

[PYP]

This is exactly like all music servers / streamers work now: you can buy downloads and store them locally on you server SSD or HDD and / or stream from internet. Not sure what you are asking about?

I believe the question was whether files stored locally on the server would avoid the internet traffic/noise and therefore would theoretically sound better than those same files streamed from a service like Qobuz.

Of course, there are companies like Taiko which provide a separate router to accomplish the separation of household traffic from audio streams, but those are expensive and add complexity.

 

[PYP]

We all know that the recording process is the major key to hearing something resembling the original event.

These folks are making the effort to get the best sound quality: https://trptk.com/lower-resolution-better-sound-quality/

I have found albums recorded by TRPTK on Qobuz. Haven't listened yet.

 

[skinnyfla]

I believe the question was whether files stored locally on the server would avoid the internet traffic/noise and therefore would theoretically sound better than those same files streamed from a service like Qobuz.

Of course, there are companies like Taiko which provide a separate router to accomplish the separation of household traffic from audio streams, but those are expensive and add complexity.

... yepp, that was exactly my question - cheers

 

[PYP]

... yepp, that was exactly my question - cheers

@skinnyfla An audio friend has tested high-resolution local and streaming albums and slightly prefers the local ones. He has taken care in mitigating network noise. He played in a band many years ago, thus has trained ears.

In my own setup, 44/16 files played via the streamer/server's internal SSD, attached USB and streaming via Roon/Qobuz sound the same to me. I don't typically listen for small differences and pay more attention to whether I gravitate toward listening to specific alternatives (= ability to engage with the music).

As one might expect, a streamed high-resolution version compared with the local 44/16 sounds much more realistic nearly every time (some 44/16 are exceptionally well engineered and therefore compare well with a higher-resolution version; some streamed high-resolution must have used a degraded "master" because they can sound pretty poor).

Your question made me realize that I've never disconnected the ethernet cable after starting an album via SSD or USB to see if it makes a difference. That would be seem to be the equivalent of stand-alone mode and perhaps that was specifically your question.

 

[skinnyfla]

@skinnyfla An audio friend has tested high-resolution local and streaming albums and slightly prefers the local ones. He has taken care in mitigating network noise. He played in a band many years ago, thus has trained ears.

In my own setup, 44/16 files played via the streamer/server's internal SSD, attached USB and streaming via Roon/Qobuz sound the same to me. I don't typically listen for small differences and pay more attention to whether I gravitate toward listening to specific alternatives (= ability to engage with the music).

As one might expect, a streamed high-resolution version compared with the local 44/16 sounds much more realistic nearly every time (some 44/16 are exceptionally well engineered and therefore compare well with a higher-resolution version; some streamed high-resolution must have used a degraded "master" because they can sound pretty poor).

Your question made me realize that I've never disconnected the ethernet cable after starting an album via SSD or USB to see if it makes a difference. That would be seem to be the equivalent of stand-alone mode and perhaps that was specifically your question.

… yes, because if the main downside is the file traveling through the internet or the home/local network, then a local server connected directly should eliminate all that, as the file is served directly, just like a CD would be… at least that’s my logic…

 

[PYP]

… yes, because if the main downside is the file traveling through the internet or the home/local network, then a local server connected directly should eliminate all that, as the file is served directly, just like a CD would be… at least that’s my logic…

For the betterment of audio nervosa worldwide, I will try playing local files with and without the wired ethernet connected (if the MU1 allows that) and post my findings.

It isn't completely altruistic since if the files sound better without the ethernet connected I know there is more to do to eliminate noise on the network side.

 

[DoctorWhy]

Easy answer No. I have been keenly following the Lampizator products especially the Horizon. I'd love to audition the DAC (hard to do) as I think it or the MSB Reference may be my best options IF I decide to take the plunge. It's the value thing that holds me back. Like many have said here I use my vinyl playback for dedicated listening and digital for more informal sessions. I'm also seeing a lot of folks who commented with very impressive digital frontends still preferring vinyl which was at the core of my question. Interestingly, a year ago I did consider abandoning my Vinyl but, with a rather large record collection, I instead upgraded my 20 year old equipment. I was rewarded with a huge improvement in SQ.

As to digital tweaks I have done many. Linear power supplied network switch, optical break in ethernet source, USB reclocker, etc. All have helped a bit. All and all its a very close run thing against my Vinyl.

I think that the Taiko Extreme Server would be an improvement in S.Q for you. Some are available used as many are upgrading to the Olympus streamer. I would also try to home demo and MSB digital director to go with your Reference DAC. With the Taiko and the MSB Select DAC, I am very happy with my sound. I don't listen to CD's or vinyl and am very happy with the sound of my system.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...Taiko Extreme + MSB Reference + Digital Director = Paradise Found

 

[hopkins]

...Taiko Extreme + MSB Reference + Digital Director = Paradise Found

Have you tried other sources than the Taiko with the Digital Director? I ask as I understand that one of the selling points of the DD is greater "source immunity"...

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...no sir: only the Taiko, first with the Ref DAC and later, with DD and Ref DAC.

 

[hopkins]

...no sir: only the Taiko, first with the Ref DAC and later, with DD and Ref DAC.

Thanks. If you ever get a chance to try another source, let us know!

 

[Blackmorec]

For the betterment of audio nervosa worldwide, I will try playing local files with and without the wired ethernet connected (if the MU1 allows that) and post my findings.

It isn't completely altruistic since if the files sound better without the ethernet connected I know there is more to do to eliminate noise on the network side.

Hi PYP,
What you will likely find is that if your network is injecting a lot of noise into your system, remotely streamed files are not the only thing affected. I spent several years removing noise from my audio network and the effects were broader than just internet related streaming. The noise coming into the system via the network has the ability to affect any digital processing.….even vinyl replay can sound better depending on the type of noise that’s getting into the system via the network

In IT circles, the network has one function and that is to move a file from A to B as fast and cheap as possible with few errors. The same applies to audio files BUT the network can have an additional role if sound quality is important and that is to improve the ‘fidelity’ of the files being moved by removing noise of all kinds and refining the specification of the physical layer associated with the file. The network can be set up to function as a filter to remove noise and refine and improve the data files. Steps include;

Separation of audio traffic from all other household network traffic
Galvanic isolation either via conversion of the audio traffic to radio waves or light pulses
Filtration of the data stream via a cascade of switches with ever improving physical layer specs and filtration
Exceptional power supplies with super low noise, impedance and ability to track current demand effortlessly
A cascade of improving oscillators to remove timing errors from all network processing
reduction of vibration of all network electronics and power supplies
protection of all network cabling from EMI ingress

 

[Al M.]

Hi PYP,
What you will likely find is that if your network is injecting a lot of noise into your system, remotely streamed files are not the only thing affected. I spent several years removing noise from my audio network and the effects were broader than just internet related streaming.

Agreed. I know of someone who greatly improved the sound of his computer playback by rerouting his ethernet cable around the equipment rack. It had picked up too much noise from components.

 

[skinnyfla]

… I still don‘t understand how/why a switch would make a difference if the server is connected directly to the streaming bridge and runs into the DAC from there… I mean, the file does not travel the home network and therefore does not pass the switch? Am I thinking wrong here? I mean, the signal path literally begins „after“ the switch, so how would it improve the file?

 

[andromedaaudio]

I m listening to digital music /Tiesto on my new speakers .
You can better turn it around :

Can vinyl get to digital sound and at what price?​

 

[marty]

... I enjoy Roon a lot and bought a lifetime membership.

me too. a couple times.

Mike, this one has me scratching my head. There's got to be a good story here. Please elaborate!

 

[PYP]

Hi PYP,
What you will likely find is that if your network is injecting a lot of noise into your system, remotely streamed files are not the only thing affected. I spent several years removing noise from my audio network and the effects were broader than just internet related streaming. The noise coming into the system via the network has the ability to affect any digital processing.….even vinyl replay can sound better depending on the type of noise that’s getting into the system via the network

In IT circles, the network has one function and that is to move a file from A to B as fast and cheap as possible with few errors. The same applies to audio files BUT the network can have an additional role if sound quality is important and that is to improve the ‘fidelity’ of the files being moved by removing noise of all kinds and refining the specification of the physical layer associated with the file. The network can be set up to function as a filter to remove noise and refine and improve the data files. Steps include;

Separation of audio traffic from all other household network traffic
Galvanic isolation either via conversion of the audio traffic to radio waves or light pulses
Filtration of the data stream via a cascade of switches with ever improving physical layer specs and filtration
Exceptional power supplies with super low noise, impedance and ability to track current demand effortlessly
A cascade of improving oscillators to remove timing errors from all network processing
reduction of vibration of all network electronics and power supplies
protection of all network cabling from EMI ingress

well, that was interesting. Since I already had a playlist with the same song via the SSD and Qobuz, I started with that (a song I know very well). I didn't know which version was which, therefore this was a blind test. The first version played and it was pretty darn good. Then the second was better in the sense that I listened more intently. That was my preferred one. This one I knew had to be the SSD. Darn it. But, no, it was the Qobuz version. Huh?

Then I listened to the SSD version again. Confirmed it was not my preferred version. Pulled the ethernet patch cable. No difference. Huh?

This is exactly the opposite of the result I fully expected. And I don't know what to make of it. I certainly heard an improvement when I added the Muon Pro passive filter months ago. As I wait to demo a Grimm MU2, I've been researching switches and contacting folks here who know what they are talking about. I don't doubt the results @Blackmorec got in his system. And I know the only way to find out what a switch would do in my own setup would be to try it. Maybe later.

 

[bonzo75]

Mike, this one has me scratching my head. There's got to be a good story here. Please elaborate!

he is a cat