Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[microstrip]

Actually it's pretry simple
A system that adds or detracts nothing from the original recording / electrical signal

Well, it is your definition. It is not the definition of most of the high-end community, it is probably why you can't understand our posts.

In the high end audio designers feel free to modify the original recording / electrical signal. Please read Nelson Pass on this subject.

If you are concerned that your power amplifier (or anything else for that matter) is as objectively and technically accurate as possible, that is a perfectly legitimate criterion. You will certainly find many products in the marketplace that excel at conventional objective performance, and most of them are much cheaper.

Our real customers care most about the experience they get when they sit down to listen to their music. We create amplifiers that we like to listen to, on the assumption that we share similar taste (end of quote)

 

[Audiophile666]

Well, it is your definition. It is not the definition of most of the high-end community, it is probably why you can't understand our posts.

In the high end audio designers feel free to modify the original recording / electrical signal. Please read Nelson Pass on this subject.

If you are concerned that your power amplifier (or anything else for that matter) is as objectively and technically accurate as possible, that is a perfectly legitimate criterion. You will certainly find many products in the marketplace that excel at conventional objective performance, and most of them are much cheaper.

Our real customers care most about the experience they get when they sit down to listen to their music. We create amplifiers that we like to listen to, on the assumption that we share similar taste (end of quote)

It was said in the context of "sound true to the original source"
If you want to hear the recording exactly as it was recorded in the studio ( which is my goal as an audiophile ) then you need a transperant system .
As for enjoyment , obviously everyone enjoys a different type of sound , even colored sound

 

[hopkins]

It was said in the context of "sound true to the original source"
If you want to hear the recording exactly as it was recorded in the studio ( which is my goal as an audiophile ) then you need a transperant system .
As for enjoyment , obviously everyone enjoys a different type of sound , even colored sound

Ho do you ascertain that the system is true to the recording?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well, IMO Paul McGowan is not just a guy with a blog. He is a manufacturer with long lasting connections to the industry, a designer/manufacturer of very good quality electronics and his blog incudes hundreds of excellent articles, a magazine and a forum. Surely this does not make in an authority in formats, but the transparency created by the public exposition of his blog opens his ideas to scrutiny - we can know why he thinks so. It would be great if other manufacturers had such attitude towards this hobby. And surely Paul wants to promote his products, it is the PSAudio site!

I was never a fan of his old DACs, but recently I listenedhttps://forum.psaudio.com/t/ted-smith-opens-up-and-tells-all/31943 to one of his latest designs sounding very good.

Paul does not design digital. my local friend Ted Smith does his digital designs. which are nice. they are PS Audio branded products.

Paul is a well known speaker designer. and his company sells lots of different products. he likes to engage his customers personally. which i agree is admirable. but i don't see that he has any credentials as a state of the art level format comparer. none the less those who follow him take his opinions seriously. which in this case, i happen to disagree with strongly.

he is welcome to make his case.

just like Pro Audio guys, access to and time spent with top level vinyl is not a given.

 

[Carlos269]

Ho do you ascertain that the system is true to the recording?

This is the crux of the matter with the absolute sound concept. I like to hear the answer to your question from all those in pursuit of this goal.

 

[Audiophile666]

Paul does not design digital. my local friend Ted Smith does his digital designs. which are nice. they are PS Audio branded products.

Paul is a well known speaker designer. and his company sells lots of different products. he likes to engage his customers personally. which i agree is admirable. but i don't see that he has any credentials as a state of the art level format comparer. none the less those who follow him take his opinions seriously. which in this case, i happen to disagree with strongly.

he is welcome to make his case.

just like Pro Audio guys, access to and time spent with top level vinyl is not a given.

Well you're wrong
Becaue he owns a studio was in the studio while recording , headed how it sounded when it was recorded and said he could hear no difference between the digital recording and the what was going on oh the studio
on the other hand he heard a big difference with vinyl
Which has a sound of it's own

 

[Audiophile666]

Ho do you ascertain that the system is true to the recording?

That's where measurements come in.

 

[Ron Resnick]

So there are, in my view, only two known ways to go about chasing that sound in our head. One is the traditional trial and error method, which pretty much amounts to shooting in the dark and hoping to hit the mark. Or two, come up with a way to simply dial in the sound to match what’s in your head, and that’s what I have done.

This dichotomy is misleading because in the traditional method one is not randomly "shooting in the dark" as you claim. Through listening to live music and auditioning systems and learning the sound of components and understanding system-building and developing one's own inventory of subjective preferences and database of experiences one is in a position to aim for his or her personal and idiosyncratic goal quite knowledgeably, consciously and directly.

I don't see MikeL or Al M or PeterA or Francisco or Marty or Steve or TimA or any of our experienced members or even me "shooting in the dark" and randomly buying components or chasing his sonic tail. I think PeterA and TimA are a good examples of discovering what they want, and then aiming directly at a confirmed target.

If we wanted to we could use processors and DSP and gadgets and widgets to bend the sound to our will, but, as far as I'm concerned, that would introduce way too much circuitry and cables and connections and distortions and artificial manipulations.

I'd much rather go "organic" and figure out what I want and achieve it with the correct basket of components to satisfy my personal sonic equation.

 

[Carlos269]

This dichotomy is misleading because in the traditional method one is not randomly "shooting in the dark" as you claim. Through listening to live music and auditioning systems and learning the sound of components and understanding system-building and developing one's own inventory of subjective preferences and database of experiences one is in a position to aim for his or her personal and idiosyncratic goal quite knowledgeably, consciously and directly.

I don't see MikeL or PeterA or Francisco or Marty or Steve or TimA or any of our experienced members or even me "shooting in the dark" and randomly buying components or chasing his sonic tail. I think PeterA and TimA are a good examples of discovering what they want, and then aiming directly at a confirmed target.

if we wanted to we could use processors and DSP and gadgets and widgets to bend the sound to our will, but, as far as I'm concerned, that would introduce way too much circuitry and cables and connections and distortions and artificial manipulations.

I'd much rather go "organic" and figure out what I want and achieve it with the correct basket of components to satisfy my personal sonic equation.

That’s why I’m listening to a system that sounds exactly like I want it to while you are still, and will continue to be, fiddling around. Why don’t you wise up and learn something new today. It is dogma that is getting the best of you. Time to break the spell and flex your head!

 

[AudioHR]

I'm talking about music in the last 20 years
Before that obviously analog was used

Sadly much of the best music was produced, recorded and mastered properly prior to 2003, IMHO!

 

[Al M.]

Sadly much of the best music was produced and recorded properly prior to 2003, IMHO!

True, much of it. But not all of it.

Much of it is post 2003, too.

 

[Audiophile666]

Only Thom Yorke is still making good music

 

[Rexp]

Another inaccurate statement. Though this maybe the trend today, as well as using autotuned and other masking, manipulative recording methods is it the industry standard ? Many studios offer both digital and analog options and one that I enjoy most of their artists is Third Man Records, they also offer direct to lacquer at their Nashville studio. I think many traditional and skilled musicians still prefer doing their work in an Analog studio laying tracks to tape, many do recognize that a digital interface will be used at one stage in the process. I for one prefer analog but their are excellent digitally mastered recording that sound wonderful streamed or on wax. My preference is owning the physical media, CD, LP, or ripped.

I think that Digital has a ways to go, and at some point the perceived SQ gap will close but not the investment that will need to be made to close that gap. Some can hear it and some cannot (the gap) I am cursed in being able to hear it. Wish I could live with the gear the folks at ASR endorse.

Here is the AI answer from ChatGPT

ChatGPT
Vinyl records are produced from a variety of sources, including both digital and analog master recordings. The sound quality of a vinyl record can depend on a number of factors, including the quality of the master recording, the quality of the pressing, and the quality of the playback equipment. Some audiophiles argue that vinyl records can have a superior sound quality compared to CDs, as the analog recording process can capture a wider dynamic range and a more natural sound. However, this is not universally true as digital recording technology has improved significantly since the 1980s and some modern digital recordings are considered to have a higher audio quality than analog recordings. It's important to note that the perceived sound quality of a vinyl record can also depend on the listener's personal preferences and the specific equipment used for playback. Ultimately, whether or not vinyl records are considered to have a superior sound quality compared to CDs is a matter of personal opinion.

Prior to Ancient Greek times, what would chatgpt answer to the question, 'is the earth flat'? Point is with current measurement tech, we don't know why most digital albums sound bad.

 

[Rexp]

For modern recordings made with high rez digital, it makes no sense to put onto vinyl, except perhaps for those audiophiles who do not have digital playback. A lot of modestly priced digital gear sound very good indeed, and often sound better than record players of similar cost. For the megabucks analogue rigs, the result might be different. For old analogue recordings, if the transfer is done well, DSD can sound remarkably close to the original source, and avoids the type of artefacts associated with PCM. The problem is, many high rez digital remasters of old analogue materials are done with audiophiles in mind, which ironically often end up sounding less natural and musical. As for early digital recordings made with Redbook PCM standard, I think it is more or less a write off sound quality-wise.

So how do your recordings compare to Octave Records? Do you recommend I give them a go? I have limited exposure to DSD and would appreciate your opinion.

 

[Carlos269]

If we wanted to we could use processors and DSP and gadgets and widgets to bend the sound

I’m using the same techniques and tools as Bob Ludwig, Ted Jensen, Greg Calbi, Steve Hoffman, Bernie Grundman, Bob Katz, and other mastering engineers. The recordings that you listen to have already undergone the process. Think about that for a minute.

 

[ScottK]

I’m using the same techniques and tools as Bob Ludwig, Ted Jensen, Greg Calbi, Steve Hoffman, Bernie Grundman, Bob Katz, and other mastering engineers. The recordings that you listen to have already undergone the process. Think about that for a minute.

Why do you insist on foisting your DSP opinions on those who have no interest? Why not just enjoy your “system” .

 

[Carlos269]

Why do you insist on foisting your DSP opinions on those who have no interest? Why not just enjoy your “system” .

The remastering process that I have implemented on my Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush reference system is all analog. There is no DSP. I have no issues with digital processing and before HQPLAYER I would do as much digital processing as I could with the limited headroom available.

 

[Carlos269]

Why do you insist on foisting your DSP opinions on those who have no interest? Why not just enjoy your “system” .

This is what forums are for, to share thoughts and opinions. You can choose to keep your head buried in the sand and I will not lose any sleep.

 

[bazelio]

Some folks haven't heard good digital playback, here are two videos comparing digital to analogue.

In the Gryphon room at the Southern California show earlier this summer, I enjoyed the digital source as much as I enjoyed the analog source. This was a first-time experience for me.

 

[adrianywu]

So how do your recordings compare to Octave Records? Do you recommend I give them a go? I have limited exposure to DSD and would appreciate your opinion.

I have not heard the Octave recordings, and so I cannot comment. An interesting source for DSD is High Definition Tape Transfer. The owner is a tape collector and has transferred the recordings to high rez PCM or DSD. I think some of the tapes are commercial 7.5ips 2 track or even 4 track, some are production or safety masters. He does not state the source of the recordings. Unfortunately, most of the DSD titles have gone through editing in DXD format, but there are some pure DSD transfers. I think they were all done flat. I have not bought any, but some people prefer these to the commercial reissues.