Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[Amir]

Paul McGowan is just a guy with a blog. he has no particular credibility on formats. he just wants to sell stuff. caveat emptor. tell us how Paul knows anything more than anyone else.

+1

 

[microstrip]

I believe that the only thing that I have not answered or disclosed is the exact list of equipment that I use and how I sequence them, as that is my intellectual property. But other than that, here is your chance to ask me a direct question and let’s see if I answer it or dance around. What is your question? What are the questions that I have not answered?

Thanks, you are on spot - as you omitted the more important details(" the exact list of equipment that I use and how I sequence them") no interesting questions are possible. Your thread became a self laudation promotional exercise.
Unfortunately we are becoming used to it in WBF.

Good luck protecting your IP.

 

[Carlos269]

Thanks, you are on spot - as you omitted the more important details(" the exact list of equipment that I use and how I sequence them") no interesting questions are possible. Your thread became a self laudation promotional exercise.
Unfortunately we are becoming used to it in WBF.

Good luck protecting your IP.

So that is all you are after. I would have thought that as a professor you would be interested in an exchange of knowledge and concepts & theories, but I see that I was wrong in thinking that. There is no free lunch, let me repeat that, there is no free lunch, not even for you professor.

 

[Amir]

In the Gryphon room at the Southern California show earlier this summer, I enjoyed the digital source as much as I enjoyed the analog source. This was a first-time experience for me.

I have listened to many gryphon systems so I am familiar to gryphon speaker and gryphon electronics. the Gryphon system removes information of sound and there are less contrast between different sources.

I remember even a small 2way living voice speaker ($10k) had much more contrast between vinyl vs CD playback.
You may like smooth sound of gryphon but it is not a real high end.

 

[SoundMann]

You may like smooth sound of gryphon but it is not a real high end.

High end sound is achieved when the system ideally meets the discerning listeners personal listening goals at a sufficiently high level.

High fidelity on the other hand is something that is rarely achieved in a playback system. Certainly not with todays overly bright, foward and harmonically theadbare components, with (often) completely skewed midrange and artificially pump up levels of bass that they produce.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

So that is all you are after. I would have thought that as a professor you would be interested in an exchange of knowledge and concepts & theories, but I see that I was wrong in thinking that. There is no free lunch, let me repeat that, there is no free lunch, not even for you professor.

oh boy.

 

[18000rpm]

Just putting this here for a chuckle. I like both digital and analog.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I have listened to many gryphon systems so I am familiar to gryphon speaker and gryphon electronics. the Gryphon system removes information of sound and there are less contrast between different sources.

I remember even a small 2way living voice speaker ($10k) had much more contrast between vinyl vs CD playback.
You may like smooth sound of gryphon but it is not a real high end.

You may like smooth sound of gryphon but it is not a real high end. Amir that is pure conjecture.

 

[SoundMann]

View attachment 114080

It's funny how they are both looking at the speaker instead of the turntable.

 

[hopkins]

Hopkins, with your very streamlined and purist system and approach, how do you discern that the sound you are hearing and listening to from your system is faithful and accurate to the recording? Or to the artists’ intent?

We will never know whether the sound is faithful/accurate to the recording. But I think we do know when we get closer to that goal, and it is very "obvious", both for us experienced "audiophiles" and non-audiophiles as well.

Music is simply more engaging, it "flows" naturally and everything becomes crystal clear. These qualities remain in spite of recording flaws, and irrespective of the type of music being played (whether with acoustical instruments, or with amplified instruments). Detailed analysis of the sound, on objective criteria, are not necessary - you simply know it when it hits you What I don't know, is what further improvements can bring.

These are comments that you have probably heard many times before, and there is nothing that I can say that can be convincing, so I do not expect I will convince anyone here!

 

[Ron Resnick]

todays overly bright, foward and harmonically theadbare components, with (often) completely skewed midrange and artificially pump up levels of bass that they produce.

+1

 

[Amir]

High end sound is achieved when the system ideally meets the discerning listeners personal listening goals at a sufficiently high level.

High fidelity on the other hand is something that is rarely achieved in a playback system. Certainly not with todays overly bright, foward and harmonically theadbare components, with (often) completely skewed midrange and artificially pump up levels of bass that they produce.

The problem is not the Gryphon system is not bright or forward, actually a properly setup real high end system is not bright or forward.
The living voice speaker is not bright or forward, living voice uses paper drivers and it's sound is very natural and emotional.
The "comparison by contrast method" (Audio Note UK article is in website) gives us a true approach to see which audio device filter more.
Gryphon can not pass those information as good as living voice.

 

[hopkins]

We will never know whether the sound is faithful/accurate to the recording. But I think we do know when we get closer to that goal, and it is very "obvious", both for us experienced "audiophiles" and non-audiophiles as well.

Music is simply more engaging, it "flows" naturally and everything becomes crystal clear. These qualities remain in spite of recording flaws, and irrespective of the type of music being played (whether with acoustical instruments, or with amplified instruments). Detailed analysis of the sound, on objective criteria, are not necessary - you simply know it when it hits you What I don't know, is what further improvements can bring.

These are comments that you have probably heard many times before, and there is nothing that I can say that can be convincing, so I do not expect I will convince anyone here!

The system I am using is "minimalist" in every aspect:
- the source (though in theory, any digital source should provide the same result, the current version of the DAC/amp I use is still sensitive to the noise spectrum of the source, but that will be addressed fully in the upcoming version)
- the DAC/amp is a novel concept that basically converts the digital signal into an analog signal without traditional preamplification and amplification
- the speakers are "full range" (down to 40hz) without crossovers.

Concerning the speakers, this design has some obvious limitations, that will "scare" anyone looking for "perfect speakers": ruler flat frequency response down to the lowest frequencies, reduction of edge diffraction, perfect diffusion, etc, etc...

But the interesting thing is that some "essential" qualities of sound reproduction survive, and transcend in a sense, these theoretical acoustic limitations of the speakers.

 

[Amir]

Comparison by Contrast method

in this way there is no need to check the sound of A is better than B or vice versa.
You put many different Vinyl/CD/File/Stream albums and listen to A then to B.
If the device A gives you more contrast between different albums then It means A filter less .
Another way is changing a device and look the system response, for example you can change the Interconnect cable and see how much the sound change, if your system shows more contrast between two cables it means your system filter less.

 

[microstrip]

So that is all you are after. I would have thought that as a professor you would be interested in an exchange of knowledge and concepts & theories, but I see that I was wrong in thinking that. There is no free lunch, let me repeat that, there is no free lunch, not even for you professor.

Surely we look for implementation and details in these very particular subjects. Unless we have them, it is impossible to properly address the subject and your system. Please feel free go on exchanging knowledge and concepts & theories with yourself.

 

[microstrip]

We will never know whether the sound is faithful/accurate to the recording. But I think we do know when we get closer to that goal, and it is very "obvious", both for us experienced "audiophiles" and non-audiophiles as well.

I do not think so. I can we guess the tonal balance of the speakers used for example, in the mastering? How can we know what kind of distortions were added to the recording to enhance it?

Music is simply more engaging, it "flows" naturally and everything becomes crystal clear. These qualities remain in spite of recording flaws, and irrespective of the type of music being played (whether with acoustical instruments, or with amplified instruments). Detailed analysis of the sound, on objective criteria, are not necessary - you simply know it when it hits you What I don't know, is what further improvements can bring.

I think that , in general, this type of qualities depend more on the playback system and listener. As my system improved the ratio of good to poor recordings improved dramatically.

These are comments that you have probably heard many times before, and there is nothing that I can say that can be convincing, so I do not expect I will convince anyone here!

I think that accuracy must be checked by measurements or null tests - listening to stereo will bring all kind of additional subjective information that will make it very difficult.

Globally my system is not 100% accurate in the strict sense - I need some manipulation to create a sound that I enjoy. But my dream would be having a great sounding system that sounds like I enjoy and is accurate. Is it possible?

 

[Lee]

I have not heard the Octave recordings, and so I cannot comment. An interesting source for DSD is High Definition Tape Transfer. The owner is a tape collector and has transferred the recordings to high rez PCM or DSD. I think some of the tapes are commercial 7.5ips 2 track or even 4 track, some are production or safety masters. He does not state the source of the recordings. Unfortunately, most of the DSD titles have gone through editing in DXD format, but there are some pure DSD transfers. I think they were all done flat. I have not bought any, but some people prefer these to the commercial reissues.

I have heard a few HDTTs and they were quite good!

 

[Carlos269]

Surely we look for implementation and details in these very particular subjects. Unless we have them, it is impossible to properly address the subject and your system. Please feel free go on exchanging knowledge and concepts & theories with yourself.

So in due diligence, I went back and read through my “There is a smarter way” thread and confirmed that all the details are there. Perhaps you need to be spoon fed the information, which I’m not willing to do.

It is very obvious that our level of understanding and comprehension are on different planes. Even if I sat you down and explained it to you bit by bit I’m not too sure now that you would grasp it based on not being able to interpret the information already provided.

As I mentioned in my thread, the “Remastering” concept and implementation is not for everyone. It requires intelligence. So it may not be for you.

The supporting evidence is that others here have grasped and shown a clear understanding of the concept and the elements at play.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

So in due diligence, I went back and read through my “There is a smarter way” thread and confirmed that all the details are there. Perhaps you need to be spoon fed the information, which I’m not willing to do.

It is very obvious that our level of understanding and comprehension are on different planes. Even if I sat you down and explained it to you bit by bit I’m not too sure now that you would grasp it based on not being able to interpret the information already provided.

As I mentioned in my thread, the “Remastering” concept and implementation is not for everyone. It requires intelligence. So it may not be for you.

It must be so difficult always being the smartest guy in the room, and all knowing.

 

[Carlos269]

It must be so difficult always being the smartest guy in the room, and all knowing.

I can assure you that I’m not all knowing and don’t ever think of myself as the smartest person in the room. But when challenged on those things that I do know, I’m confident enough to hold my ground.