Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[chuck]

I like discussing audio I don't care if someone agrees with me or not.
What is going to take to reach my goal ?
A lot of money

Accuracy and getting the closest to the master and being able to hear every detail as it was recorded
That is my goal.
Others want pleasant sound and couldn't care less about accuracy or details and that's fine .
I'm not saying one's better than the other I'm just saying my goal is different than most here.

I went with the same approach. Boulder amp/YG speakers/Playback Designs MPD8. Each are designed to banish all distortion.
Vinyl and tube audio has too much distortion for me.

 

[Kingrex]

Usually these threads are valueless. But I had a personal reinforcing moment. I re-recognized peoples participation in the hobby as a whole is quite varied in personal intent. I had a moment where I accepted, ok, some people just want to measure. Others just want to listen. And.either is just fine. Neither gets you to a superior place. Neither takes you down a wrong path. Not unless you don't truely recognize what your striving for and build out incorrectly. Hopefully no one gets so dogmatic they loose site of what they really want for themselves.

 

[thedudeabides]

Question / Kingrex. What is wrong with reflections? Answer / AudioGod. It's the root of all evil
You want as much direct sound as possible.

So you are saying that electrostic speakers, MBL'S and other type speakers that are made to project sound to the rear and / or side are bad transducer designs?

 

[AudioGod]

So you are saying that electrostic speakers, MBL'S and other type speakers that are made to project sound to the rear and / or side are bad designs?

I'm not saying they're bad
I'm saying they're less accurate
Even professional studio monitors are designed to have niminum interaction with the room and as much direct sound as possible .

 

[hopkins]

Usually these threads are valueless. But I had a personal reinforcing moment. I re-recognized peoples participation in the hobby as a whole is quite varied in personal intent. I had a moment where I accepted, ok, some people just want to measure. Others just want to listen. And.either is just fine. Neither gets you to a superior place. Neither takes you down a wrong path. Not unless you don't truely recognize what your striving for and build out incorrectly. Hopefully no one gets so dogmatic they loose site of what they really want for themselves.

I am just wondering if some of the participants here, not to name them, have enough experience to even know what they want.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I went with the same approach. Boulder amp/YG speakers/Playback Designs MPD8. Each are designed to banish all distortion.
Vinyl and tube audio has too much distortion for me.

You do you like we say here in Texas.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

It's not about one system or the other
Yes vinyl has a more "organic " or musical sound than digital in most cases .
But I'm more into Analytical and accurate sound .
I don't even need to enjoy the sound , I just want to hear the recorded music as close as possible to the original master.
You can't do that with vinyl .
Digital has lower distortion , higher dynamic range etc .
Some audiophiles goal is to have pleasant sound that's not necessarily accurate , and that's fine too.

You do you, the rest of us are not wrong, and you are not right, it is what you like. Now change your moniker it is insulting, as I am the true AudioGod!

 

[Another Johnson]

Lagonda said:
What is your current setup ? What kind of speakers do you have ?

Actually I'm new to the hi end world , I had some crappy systems and speakers in the past but nothing special
So nothing right now actually .
************
The post above was by Audiogod on August 31, 2023 in the best $80k speaker thread.

I’d forgotten. In light of this, here is my recommendation. DO NOT GET SUCKED INTO VINYL FOR AT LEAST TWO YEARS AFTER YOU’VE LIVED WITH A GOOD DIGITAL SYSTEM. At that point you will at least have a personal baseline for what digital actually is.

At the end of the two years, get a Rega Planar 3, a sub $2k cartridge, and a decent phono equalization preamp. Buy 40 used records, and have a go. Within a few months you will begin to understand what vinyl can do. You’ll either want to get further in, or you’ll sell off and build on digital.

Right now your gun isn’t loaded … not even with blanks. You’re considering data without any personally valid concept of how digital and vinyl relate to real music in your home.

 

[Kingrex]

I am just wondering if some of the participants here, not to name them, have enough experience to even know what they want.

I think we all keep learning.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I am just wondering if some of the participants here, not to name them, have enough experience to even know what they want.

Do you? There is reason we are here, what is your reason?

 

[Sampajanna]

If it was based on my own personal subjective opinion I wouldn't have even said it.
It's all science based .
That I trust more than my own ears.

So you recommend eating gloop tailored to one’s chemistry by a computer? Should I buy the art Google tells me to? Should I mistrust my heart when it is moved by a poem? Why would I want to spend my hard-earned money and my precious time listening to something I myself find unpleasant? I also value accuracy, but as those with experience are suggesting, accuracy, realism and pleasant warmth are not mutually exclusive. (Have you heard a Horizon?) I have heard dozens and dozens of dacs in my own home, and countless more out and about at friends, dealers and shows, including the cheap Chifi recommended on ASR. The differences are very real and those so-called “neutral” dacs do NOT sound real to me. They have a sound signature of their own.

And none of the discussion so far even includes spirit—a variable that would result in rotten eggs thrown at you over at ASR—but one that is important to me. Those Chifi dacs produce soulless music. I have witnessed plenty of non-audiophile people brought to tears by an engaging system. Afterwards, they don’t discuss accuracy; they talk about spirit and emotion. You keep mentioning what they do in a recording studio, but I am not a producer. I am not trying to mix music, I am trying to enjoy it. If maximum enjoyment isnt the goal, I don’t know what is. Accurate sound that does not move me is like eating a dish I don’t like because a machine said I should.

If you told me that your experience based on listening to many system configurations showed you that you yourself found more enjoyment in analytical sound, losing yourself in the music that way, then I would have much more respect for your opinion. As it stands, your recommendations feel like a bot because you are telling me what is better based on a standard that does not map to my or your experience. You’re telling me what a machine or software says I should like. You are expressing the same view all the ASR dudes express. It is a view we are all familiar with and therefore doesn’t really add anything to this conversation about vinyl/digital.

You say you don’t trust your own ears to determine what you do or don’t like, but to me that is absurd—as absurd as the mysticism I flirt with here may sound to you. Can you see that what you experience as a ”gotcha” of some kind is not a currency that is valued here on WBF? We value experience. Experience isn’t pride; it is time spent listening to lots of stuff and time spent figuring out what place audio has in your life and how it adds value and meaning to your one and only human experience on this planet. A scientist once asked the Dalai Lama what he would do if science proved without a doubt a fallacy in one of his Buddhist ideas. He said that he would study the issue and if the truth was thus, he would change his view. He then smiled and asked the scientist, “And what if you had an experience clear and true that contradicted your scientific principle?”

You seem like a nice guy, which is why you ended up here. ASR is so vile. It is so antisocial there and those who disagree are pushed out, even when they come with measurements like Goldensound did. You are witnessing a relatively peaceful and constructive discussion with people who respect your right to have an opinion even though it doesn't hold much weight because you aren’t adding experience to the discussion. But I still welcome you and would love to discuss this all more and learn from your and others here perspectives. Over there, everyone has knives out. Every forum has its issues, but that one is to me the worst of the worst. That has less to do with the pseudo-scientific approach of its dogma and more to do with the terrible incivility and attitude of the folks there. You are asking us to consider your ideas, and we all are and then when people with tons of experience, like Mike, take the time to offer you advice, you return to talking points and abstract philosophy rather than the open-mindedness that results in true and meaningful discourse.

 

[Porsche]

good Lord, this horse has been beaten to death, if you buy from specs etc only and not your ears than its a lost cause

 

[AudioGod]

good Lord, this horse has been beaten to death, if you buy from specs etc only and not your ears than its a lost cause

No
The point is
The measurements are the basis , and then I listen to make a final decision.
Like I said I wouldn't even consider a speaker with bad measurements .
On the other hand I've heard speakers that measure perfectly and didn't like the sound at all.

 

[Porsche]

The measurements are the basis , and then I listen to make a final decision.
Like I said I wouldn't even consider a speaker with bad measurements .
On the other hand I've heard speakers that measure perfectly and didn't like the sound at all.

you just proved my point, with your last sentence, you won't consider a speaker or anything I assume with bad measurements but you also state that something that measures PERFECT doesn't sound good at all, the irony

 

[AudioGod]

you just proved my point, with your last sentence, you won't consider a speaker or anything I assume with bad measurements but you also state that something that measures PERFECT doesn't sound good at all, the irony

Nope
I'm just being honest
Obviously I could have not written the last sentence .
The thing is, you must listen to make a decision , with that I agree.
But I'll only waste my time on speakers that measure well , obviously I won't like them all, but heard others that had good measurements and like them a lot.
But I won't spend one second on speakers that have bad measurements .

 

[Ron Resnick]

Like I said I wouldn't even consider a speaker with bad measurements .

What would be an example of a speaker with bad measurements?

If the frequency response chart were ruler flat, would you consider that to be good measurements?

 

[AudioGod]

What would be an example of a speaker with bad measurements?

If the frequency response chart were ruler flat, would you consider that to be good measurements?

How to understand speaker measurements — and why they matter

Ever wanted to know how to understand a speaker's frequency response? Here's our comprehensive guide to correlate your listening impressions with the data.

thenextweb.com

 

[Ron Resnick]

No; I'm asking you.

What frequency response do you think represents good measurements?

 

[adrianywu]

How does this have any meaning if we cannot agree on what is "no sound signature"? A system which you think has no sound signature might sound dry and flat and lifeless to me, which does not sound like real music to me, and so is, to me, itself a "sound signature."


I do? What if "neutral and flat" sounds dry and lifeless and analytical and unnatural to me?


PS: You ain't in ASR no more!

Neutral, flat and transparent means the system does not add anything to the sound. It does not mean it takes away what is already in the signal. It should not render anything flat and lifeless. By definition, a system with no sound signature of its own should reproduce exactly how the signal was recorded. If the recording is already flat and lifeless, it will remain so. I guess some people do like systems that add colour and "life" to flat and uninteresting recordings, but that kind of system will only do well with a small proportion of recordings.

 

[AudioGod]

No; I'm asking you.

What frequency response do you think represents good measurements?

Obviously good on and off axis response